Shocking - He's Back

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mikel

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michaelc

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HI, Its the useless trading standards laws that allow these people like many more to keep on trading with just a name change, I did get my dish from them a few years ago and it was all OK, but I do know that later they took a lot of money off people, very bad in deed. but unless the laws get some teeth this will go on and on.
michael
 
Jul 29, 2007
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Hi michael thats what LTD means, you limit your liabilty if it all goes tits up. However never forget if you have borrowed money from the bank it will be tied into your house, and if you can't meet the repayments they will come knocking.

Bill may have cost people money, but he may have lost even more. Unless he's a total crook nobody starts a business intending to fail.

Olley
 
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mikel

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I posted for the benefit of motorhome owners, namely those who part with hard earned cash.

''Better the devil you know.....'' was foremost in my mind.

Now you mention that Bill may have lost dosh from Transleisure it may be that his set-up finances for his new company (That Leisure Company) are on a less firm foundation than they were for Transleisure.

That's a warning if I ever heard one.
Thanks for pointing that out.
 

Thepips

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HI, Its the useless trading standards laws that allow these people like many more to keep on trading with just a name change, I did get my dish from them a few years ago and it was all OK, but I do know that later they took a lot of money off people, very bad in deed. but unless the laws get some teeth this will go on and on.
michael
It's fairly obvious that MikeL has some axe to grind, his first post was an outrageous slur on someone who was a respected trader for many years. Please don't jump onto the bandwagon without knowing the full facts.
It takes guts to lose everything the way they did and then start all over again.
 
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mikel

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Apologies to all the Traders out there, I'm quite certain you're all pillars of the motorhome community even though you say so yourselves.

Bottomline fact is that the Anthill's ran a fairly inept business plan lacking in the most fundamental controls.

Bottomline fact is that many customers lost hardware under repair.

Bottomlineline fact the Anthill's took deposits after the liquidator was called in.

Bottomline fact the Anthill's are back up in business again and likely to approach the motorhome owner with the same business integrity as before.

There are many other satellite suppliers out there, most of whom provide an excellent service.

An axe to grind ? Maybe so but it would be rather ''Anthill-like'' of me not to point out the obvious to the motorhome community.
 

Jim

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Apologies to all the Traders out there, I'm quite certain you're all pillars of the motorhome community even though you say so yourselves.

Bottomline fact is that the Anthill's ran a fairly inept business plan lacking in the most fundamental controls.

Bottomline fact is that many customers lost hardware under repair.

Bottomlineline fact the Anthill's took deposits after the liquidator was called in.

Bottomline fact the Anthill's are back up in business again and likely to approach the motorhome owner with the same business integrity as before.

There are many other satellite suppliers out there, most of whom provide an excellent service.

An axe to grind ? Maybe so but it would be rather ''Anthill-like'' of me not to point out the obvious to the motorhome community.
This is a sad tale, I do not know the company and have never been a customer, however I would offer the following;

People go bust all of the time. No one would start a business or take any risk at all if they thought they could not start again after a failed attempt. A failed business may hurt some customers and it doesn't seem fair when it does, but who said life was fair, it isn't.

Mikel, can you clarify this statement for me;

Bottomlineline fact the Anthill's took deposits after the liquidator was called in.
A liquidator taking deposits on stock in hand is quite normal as it is their job to realise as much from the assets as possible. However, are you saying that the Anthill's took orders knowing they were going bust and that they would not fullfill them?
 

Road Runner

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Life is of course so much easier for a company director to bounce back than a sole trader or private individual.

A lesson to be learnt here to any budding entrepreneurs out there.

The people in question at present have come back extremely fast though in the same business which no doubt makes the hole situation harder to swallow for anyone who has suffered when the named company went into liquidation.

However in the USA anyone seen to be a trier generally is seen in a brighter light.
 
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American Dream

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So are we saying that, the company is now trading again, albeit under a different name, and the proprietors are not liable to debts owed by their Previous company?

Cannot any people out of pocket, approach them for compensation, or take action against individuals?

Was the "Hardware under repair" sold off as assets of the company by the liquidators?

Surely they were not the owners of such equipment.
 
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mikel

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Anthill's took orders knowing they were going bust and that they would not fullfill them?

That assertion has been made by several people on a motorhome site similar to motorhomefun.co.uk

If I remember correctly one chap lost £1500.00
 

Jim

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Hi Steve, a Limited company is just that. It means Limited Liability. That said A customer would have a case to approach the said directors for compensation had a crime been committed, ie the directors continued trading knowing they were insolvent. But if the company failed through poor management or bad luck or any other legal reason there is not normally any case for compensation to customers who lost out.

Phoenix companies (buyingthe assets of your old company and starting again) are completely legal and I would guess that only a tiny amount of Phoenix startups are run by crooks.
 

Jim

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Anthill's took orders knowing they were going bust and that they would not fullfill them?

That assertion has been made by several people on a motorhome site similar to motorhomefun.co.uk

If I remember correctly one chap lost £1500.00

Hi Mikel, you are allowed to mention motorhomefacts here. ::bigsmile: However I would err on the side of caution and never publicly accuse anyone of committing crime. This can be damaging to all concerned including motorhomefun:whatthe:
 
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mikel

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Jim,
I'm aware of the sensitivity you mention and will adhere to your request.

I believe it is important for newcomers to motorhoming to be aware of certain situations, good or bad. Of course that's only a starter for their own research and no more than that.

Nevertheless I would rather be guilty of saying something than saying nothing at all.

ps - very good site, first on my port of call.
 

American Dream

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Hi Steve, a Limited company is just that. It means Limited Liability. That said A customer would have a case to approach the said directors for compensation had a crime been committed, ie the directors continued trading knowing they were insolvent. But if the company failed through poor management or bad luck or any other legal reason there is not normally any case for compensation to customers who lost out.

Phoenix companies (buyingthe assets of your old company and starting again) are completely legal and I would guess that only a tiny amount of Phoenix startups are run by crooks.
Interesting Jim.I was afraid that was the case.

Just one thing, When are "assets" not assets of the company?

You hear so many stories of companies going into liquidation and customers equipment being taken as assets of that company.:Eeek:

I am still in two minds about taking the RV to a certain company mentioned a lot here, for fear there will be problems.
 
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Thepips

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Bill has indeed started a new company in a line of business he knows extremely well. After all, his was the first company to bring automatic satellite systems to the UK market. At least two of his competitors used to work for him.
Let's look at some of the indisputable facts
The trademark blue octagon marquees of Transleisure? Gone
The air brushed vehicles? Gone
Premises? Gone
Oyster distributorship? Gone
The assets of Transleisure were purchased by a company on the south coast so how much has he kept? Nothing that I could see. Not much of Phoenix is it?
So what exactly is left? Bill and Helen doing what they've done for 15 years or more, attending shows and selling what they know a lot about. Good for them, it takes real guts to start again after losing everything. Why was it too soon? They've got to earn a living!
Everyone knows of ONE person who lost £1000 deposit on a jacking system, he's been extremely vocal about it. I don't blame him, I would be as well. So who are all these other customers?
So MikeL, where exactly are you getting your FACTS from? You seem curiously well informed. Do you work for the administrators or is it pure conjecture?
 
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artona

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Hi

Try reading a few biographies of famous and highly successful business people and you will read how many have gone bust not once but twice etc due to the risks they have to take.

On making it big they created jobs and incomes for many, many people.I am not going to name names on the internet because it is distasteful so but do your own research if you are interested.

Give this couple a chance, I am quite sure they did not find pleasure in losing a company they had spent years to build.

stew
 

sersol

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Oct 18, 2007
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Hi, I do not know any of the traders named or who have had input to this thread.
A couple of heated posts made me think. I run my own "Limited" Company not because I wanted to "limit" any liabilty but because a number of people I deal with wanted only to deal with limited companies. After taking advise from my accountant that was the way I went.
Lets look @ why companies or any traders go "bust",sure very few plan to & very few want to but sometimes its the easy way out.
Its quite simple really, as a rule there is more money going out than coming in, which can cause cash flow problems. This is a suprise to me within the motorhome sector as I would think most "Trader's-Dealer's are dealing with "Joe public".
I have had a number of jobs done costing over £1500 & was not allowed my keys back until I had paid in full (which was requested in cash) So they had my money before they had paid out their money (if you see what I mean)
Of course, there are some company Directors who milk the system,big house,big car,big motorhome ::bigsmile:.. Don't get me wrong if someone has worked hard & the money is there why not enjoy theirselves. I think some of the problem may come down to the way tax is paid for these types of companies (corporation tax-once a year) This seems a suprise to some that come Jan they have to hand over large amounts of cash..................
BUT wait they spent that money on the new car :winky::winky::winky::winky:.
I'm not sure about the company mentioned in this thread BUT I think that it is TOO easy to start up again & with a name sooooooo similar.
 

Wobby

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It's fairly obvious that MikeL has some axe to grind, his first post was an outrageous slur on someone who was a respected trader for many years. Please don't jump onto the bandwagon without knowing the full facts.
It takes guts to lose everything the way they did and then start all over again.
I am one of those folk who lost money £1000 of my hard earned money. I to have my own business, trading for the last 30 years, the difference is I managed my business with a degree of honesty that is so lacking now days. I had a long chat with Bill at the NEC some two years ago and he was full of it all, how a Christmas he would take the best rooms in a hotel in Donegal Ireland and how he drove around in a Carthago Mega-liner and was selling it if I wanted to buy as a new one was on order. As for a respected trader BS I've spoken to some major player in this field and they don't agree and nor do I. Its so easy to hide behind a limited company when your either incompetent or just plain dishonest

Wobby
 

camcondor

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Well said Wobby. :thumb: We had a narrow escape - shortly before the operation went under, we had our van booked in by longstanding appointment to have air suspension fitted. We wasted a tank of diesel and a day of our lives by the couldn't care less attitude and incompetence of TL who had all the vans details when it was booked in but didn't bother themselves to find out if their kit would fit our van. It didn't, and they had the cheek to tell us to "bring it back in the week" (like we were at their beck and call and didn't work!!) when they could gather up the intelligence and / or interest to get the necessary parts to do the job which they hadn't bothered to do initially.)

I smelt a rat at that point, and was also disgusted by the arrogant manner in which we were treated in the showroom (ignored while all the male customers were served before us). I got the impression that female customers were second-class to them and we also had "foreign" accents to compound the problem.

I agree that these Phoenix operations should be banned. And I do NOT think that MikeL "HAS SOME AXE TO GRIND" or that it was "fairly obvious" or an "outrageous slur" - nonsense!! It was anything but!! Just a statement of what happened, really.

Was dismayed to hear of the motorhomers like Wobby who had money taken and never received their goods/services - I seem to remember a chap on the Isle of Man who spent a small fortune and got terrible "customer service" in return.
Sometimes, what goes around comes around :Sad: If the customer service had been fantastic and the financial management of the company good, it is likely the outcome would have been quite different. Maybe some Carthagos and a few five star hotels too many????:Eeek:


Laurie
 
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Ventra

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My name is Bill Antill Jnr,

I would like to thank the many, many hundreds of people that have offered words of support to my parents and myself.

I would also like those in this thread that see the "Anthills" as the new "Maxwells" to come forward with evidence of illegal activity.

What is being said about my family is disgusting. Those that are spouting this absolute rubbish that we have, intentionally gone out to deceive and defraud please send me your full names and addresses, so that I can ask a solicitor to advise on libel!

Camconder, your views are well posted on the other forum, and I stand by what I replied to you there.

Wobby, you said in emails that you would be saying nothing more on the subject of Transleisure.

MikeL, please send me the proof of deceit.

I can be reached on 07960 995 984 should anyone want to discuss further.
 

Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

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In law every Director of a Limited Liability Company is entitled to personal protection of liability to any debts incurred by the Company unless they have signed personal gaurantees to suppliers or banks.

Trade suppliers know this and either accept the risk or get the debts insured in case of a Company failing, however a retail customer cannot or would not be aware of what would happen if the supplier failed.

One way of covering yourself is always to pay any monies like deposits or bills by credit card, you will then have the protection of the Consumer Credit Acts, (over £100)

HOWEVER any person who then rises from the ashes in the same business, should morally in my view, recompense ALL RETAIL PURCHASERS as and when he is able from the profits of the new business

He will then restore his street creditibilty and prove he is a gentleman who can be trusted.
:thumb:

Peter
 

American Dream

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In law every Director of a Limited Liability Company is entitled to personal protection of liability to any debts incurred by the Company unless they have signed personal gaurantees to suppliers or banks.

Trade suppliers know this and either accept the risk or get the debts insured in case of a Company failing, however a retail customer cannot or would not be aware of what would happen if the supplier failed.

One way of covering yourself is always to pay any monies like deposits or bills by credit card, you will then have the protection of the Consumer Credit Acts, (over £100)

HOWEVER any person who then rises from the ashes in the same business, should morally in my view, recompense ALL RETAIL PURCHASERS as and when he is able from the profits of the new business

He will then restore his street creditibilty and prove he is a gentleman who can be trusted.
:thumb:

Peter
Well Said.:thumb:
 

moandick

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I am the very first person to say that I know nothing of the history - or the ins and outs - of this particular story but I have to agree with Peter from JCM and American Dream.

I would feel very embarrassed to set up a new business doing the same thing in the same area etc., etc., knowing that some of my previous customers who had trusted me implicitly were very much out of pocket.

Nothing to do with passing insults or apportioning blame or whatever BUT I feel there is a moral issue here!
 
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American Dream

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I am the very first person to say that I know nothing of the history - or the ins and outs - of this particular story but I have to agree with Peter from JCM and American Dream.

I would feel very embarrassed to set up a new business doing the same thing in the same area etc., etc., knowing that some of my previous customers who had trusted me implicitly were very much out of pocket.
I just think that it would be seen in a good light by "past" customers if, some sort of goodwill gesture was made by the Company if, or when, they were able to.:thumb:

It must be very hard having to start again, and, to keep old customers loyalty must surely be seen as being beneficial in the long run, to the future of the "new" company.IMHO.

There is nothing worse than being pre-judged or being spoken of negatively as, with the world of the internet being so far-ranging nowadays, it can have a very destructive effect.

I wish them all the Best and hope they can make a go of this, and perhaps, gain back the confidence of their previous clientelle.
 
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Road Runner

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I feel very sorry for firms going to the wall and understand a lot about it sadly.

But threatening to sue people cost money and surely that money would be better spent reimbursing the past customers who lost out and mending bridges rather than burn them:winky:

The motor home market is thriving but small and tends to be a close knit community so incidents like this are hard forgiven when starting back up in the same area within months and hoping to start again where you left off.

I wish everyone concerned a good outcome.
 
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Bryan

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HOWEVER any person who then rises from the ashes in the same business, should morally in my view, recompense ALL RETAIL PURCHASERS as and when he is able from the profits of the new business

There are several problems with that though, for one:

Let's say I order a Diamond Encrusted Waistcoat for my pet parrot, Arthur, from Company 'A'. I pay £2000 in deposit and the company go bust.

The owner (a lovely man) sets up company 'B' in a phoenix stylee, selling the same items.

He should not be able to recompense me as how would he show that in his books? 'I gave a Diamond Encrusted Parrot Waistcoat away because another company behaved poorly'?

I understand individuals frustration when this happens, I daresay that if there are double glazing forums they will be awash with tales of woe.

I second the advice to ALWAYS pay for items over £100 with a credit card. You get protection that way.

Bryan
 

Geo

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I'd be more interested in your answer to Suzy, when the Diamond Encrusted Waistcoat shows up on her books
Only you would call a Parrot Arfer:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
V

Ventra

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Apologies to all the Traders out there, I'm quite certain you're all pillars of the motorhome community even though you say so yourselves.

Bottomline fact is that the Anthill's ran a fairly inept business plan lacking in the most fundamental controls.

Bottomline fact is that many customers lost hardware under repair.

Bottomlineline fact the Anthill's took deposits after the liquidator was called in.

Bottomline fact the Anthill's are back up in business again and likely to approach the motorhome owner with the same business integrity as before.

There are many other satellite suppliers out there, most of whom provide an excellent service.

An axe to grind ? Maybe so but it would be rather ''Anthill-like'' of me not to point out the obvious to the motorhome community.
Mikel,

I really do not know who you are or what I or any member of my family have done to you that forces you to make such strong accusations.

Please furnish me with the "Bottomline facts" as you so un"Anthill-Like" state, incedently the name is spelt ANTILL.

If there is any proof of deceit you should contact the police or relevent authorities immediately!

But if you have no evidence....................................
 
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