Schengen rules enforcement?

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nicholsong

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This not about Brexit!!!!


Does anyone the definitive legal answer to this situation - no opinions nor guesswork please.





The current Schengen rules allow free transit within the Schengen Area.


However, if one stays more than 90 days in any one country one is required to 'Register' in that country.


Scenario:


One has entered the Schengen area, travelled around and for some reason stayed more than 90 days in one country. (Difficult to prove I know, but assume there is evidence.)


One leaves Schengen, from a country where one has been for less than 90 days, but the evidence of overstaying in the other country is available.


Who, if anyone, has the right to detain/prosecute one for the overstay?


Does the Schengen agreement make provision for this situation? If so who does it authorise and under what laws?


Geoff
 
Last edited:
Deneb said:
It would be the immigration authorities of the country you are in at the time of detection. You are not allowed 90 days consecutively in different countries within the Schengen area, but 90 days in the area as a whole.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/consequences-of-overstaying-in-schengen-area/

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/399/oj
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I was not thinking of anyone on a Schengen Visa, but someone who has an unlimited right to travel within Schengen, but who is still restricted to 90 days in any one country.
 
You are British .So the Schengen does not affect you or allow you to travel as the UK is not signed up to it. When I originally had a tarjeta de residencia here in spain ,exactly the same as the spaniards dni card, I was not allowed to use it to travel/fly as the UK is not a signatory.Only travel with a passport.
 
The fact that you are allowed to travel freely at the moment is nothing to do with schengen but eu directives allowing Eu citizens freedom of movement. After, with no deal, you will need a Schengen visa for the 90 days

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Although the first site I linked to refers to Visa requirements, you need to view it as immigration requirements, for which a visa is a requirement for anyone entering the Schengen area, unless they are exempted either by being a citizen of another member state or because of a visa waiver agreement between the area and one of the non area countries to which it applies.

Although the requirements imposed on an individual may differ according to their citizenship/country of origin, the article makes clear that member states may each have different penalties and procedures for breaches of the requirements.

Each state will have specific agencies with enforcement responsibilities, such as border officers, customs, police etc.

There is also a centralised force that can be called on by individual member states I believe, but each state has the right to deal with offences in its own jurisdiction and to pursue offenders into a neighbouring member state.

Are you asking then on the basis that you are a citizen of a Schengen member state who might overstay in another member state?

In any other case, the 90 day limit in any period of 180 days applies to the entire Schengen area.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons.
 
What about the immigrants in northern France, they may have stayed in the Schengen for more then 90days....
Do they get any grief from the authorities..?
 
Just smiffy said:
What about the immigrants in northern France, they may have stayed in the Schengen for more then 90days....
Do they get any grief from the authorities..?
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But if you have a verifiable identity, provable and traceable address and demonstrable assets, you are a much easier target for the imposition of a financial penalty, especially to an agency that may have enforcement targets but knows there is little realistic chance of success or an insufficient budget and resources to go chasing after hundreds of migrants not fulfilling that criteria.
 
"Are you asking then on the basis that you are a citizen of a Schengen member state who might overstay in another member state?"

I am contemplating that and am examining the consequences.

"There is also a centralised force that can be called on by individual member states I believe, but each state has the right to deal with offences in its own jurisdiction and to pursue offenders into a neighbouring member state."

But if the overstay was committed in another State what can any authority do? I am not sure what this ''centralised force' is, which goes to the knub of my OP post.

I am not nit-picking against posters, but only nit-picking to get to the details of the law.

Geoff

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Reading the legislation EU 2016/399 in full ought to help.

My understanding regarding a citizen of a member state wishing to stay in another member state for more than 90 days is that they need to comply with the requirements of that state. The indication given in the document that this may include registration in that state suggests that the exact requirements may differ between individual member states.

As for what might happen if you had overstayed/ failed to comply with the requirements in one member state but not been detected by that state at the time you were there, I could only guess that the answer might be "not much", but I would be guessing and you're not asking for guesses.

I suspect it might be a bit like driving a car with an illegally spaced number plate though. You might do it hundreds of times without incident. You night get pulled over on one occasion and receive a friendly warning, or you might be very unlucky and get stopped during your first trip, receive a financial penalty and have your registration mark revoked to boot!

I've always found it best to investigate what I would be required to do and comply with any actions I intend to make, unlike many of my "customers" over many years who seem to know what they're supposed to be doing, choose to ignore it and express surprise when they're caught, followed by incredulity that they're being punished for it as well, usually because they thought asking "haven't you got anything better to do" or similar endearing terms would be guaranteed to make the nasty enforcement officer realise the error of his ways ;)

I believe Fronted is the name of the current centralised border agency, although there are proposals for another armed border agency to be formed as well.
 
Deneb said:
But if you have a verifiable identity, provable and traceable address and demonstrable assets, you are a much easier target for the imposition of a financial penalty, especially to an agency that may have enforcement targets but knows there is little realistic chance of success or an insufficient budget and resources to go chasing after hundreds of migrants not fulfilling that criteria.
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So crooks get away with it :whistle:
 
I looked into this online at comments from US citizens that have over stayed and become illegal immigrants and you will be detained on leaving the zone as they can soon count up the number of days at the border and new systems will be digitalised . The zone is not a individual country and there seems a difference of fines in different countries legal courts that you try and leave from but I found but fines seems to range from 600 - 1000 euros and then a X number of years ban .
 
So what happens to a Resident of a Schengen country who has been proved to have stayed more than 90 days in 180 days in another Schengen country?

Is he sent back to his country of Residence, his country of Nationality? or where?

I think the F*ckwits who made up the rules could not answer the question.
 
nicholsong said:
So what happens to a Resident of a Schengen country who has been proved to have stayed more than 90 days in 180 days in another Schengen country?

Is he sent back to his country of Residence, his country of Nationality? or where?

I think the F*ckwits who made up the rules could not answer the question.
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Yes you are quite right .No thought was ever given as to how they would all interact as no one gave it a thought ,especially regarding long term snowbirders.
If they really wish to be awkward , Take Spain as an example, He automatically becomes a resident after 90 days;
Fine of 300€ for 'failing to register' You cannot be deported or asked to leave.
therefore he is also now driving illegally a foreign registered vehicle , another fine, which could be impounded until it is re-registered on to spanish plates. There are other offences the pedantic policeman could no doubt come up with but at the end of the day an eu citizen cannot be asked to leave/thrown out /deported etc. But the fines could easily run into the 000's.

If the person had actually been here in excess of 183 days cumulatively then if they wanted to really put the boot in they could easily bankrupt the person legally.
 
If someone holds residency then they won't have any issues travelling in the zone from one state to another or leaving and returning the zone .

Visiting the zone will need a electronic system visa which will need to be applied for online stating what country you are entering the zone and you must enter by that country only .
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/
 
I dont,think one will have a problem if you keep your nose clean until all has settled down .

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