Schengen and 90 days for those already in Schengen on Brexit Day

[nicholsong]

Does anyone have any information about the following situation.

A British person is already in the Schengen Area when Brexit takes effect, whichever day that is (April 12th, May 22nd etc.)

That person has no Schengen Visa, because one can only be issued to a British person in the UK, so cannot be obtained within Schengen.

It seems to me that there are two possibilities in relation to the 90 day limit for a stay in the Area

1. The person is allowed to exit at any time even after the 90 days, but must apply for a visa to re-enter and then is thereon subject to the 90 day rule.

2 The authorities within Schengen will make the assumption that the 90 days start from Brexit Day and that the person must leave before 90 days expires.

Has anyone seen any definitive information, not opinion, on what Schengen countries will do in these circumstances?

Geoff

 

[Guigsy]

Have you seen that film called The Terminal, where while the main character is on a flight, his country collapses and he is trapped in the airport, unable to cross any borders?

 

[gus-lopez]

How would one country know who is a British tourist against who is a British permanent resident in another EU state ? Like me?
I don't believe that any other EU state knows what all the other eu states permanent resident cards/papers/etc; even look like.
& no is the answer to your question.

 

[spitfire]

Guess it depends if they check your arrival tickets regardless which country you exit from.

 

[GPW]

Have you seen that film called The Terminal, where while the main character is on a flight, his country collapses and he is trapped in the airport, unable to cross any borders?

Assange and Snowden know the feeling!!

Don't count on any Brexit this year.

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[Tykatem]

Has anyone seen any definitive information, not opinion, on what Schengen countries will do in these circumstances? Geoff

It will all depend on if we leave with a deal or not!

As according to EU directive.......

UK citizens will not need to apply for a Broken Link Removed like many other nationalities. On February 1, 2019, the European Council said: “EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel.”

If the deal is eventually approved by parliament, there will be a transition period and British people will continue to be able to go to Europe without a visa until the implementation of ETIAS in 2021. However, there is also the posibility of the UK leaving the EU without a deal which could make it more complicated for British people to travel to the continent.

ETIAS and Brexit are coincidental: ETIAS is not a consequence of Brexit. ETIAS is being introduced to improve the security of the region and the safety of its citizens.

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Pete

 

[nicholsong]

Guess it depends if they check your arrival tickets regardless which country you exit from.

Arrival dates before Brexit Day are surely irrelevant as those days when British Citizens were EU Citizens would not be counted towards the 90 days.

Geoff

It will all depend on if we leave with a deal or not!

As according to EU directive.......


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Pete

Pete

That information only applies to when one may or may not need a visa.

It does not alter the Schengen 90 day rule, as per your quote

'“EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel.”

Remember even Residents of Schengen countries are restricted to 90 days in another country and then must register.

The agreement you quote only addresses the travellers arriving after any Brexit Dates, albeit with transition periods or not. It does not address situations where a British Citizen is already inside the Schengen Area on any of those relevant dates, which is the whole point of my enquiry.

Maybe the beaurocrats did not put their thinking hats on for long enough.

Geoff

 

[gus-lopez]

The agreement you quote only addresses the travellers arriving after any Brexit Dates, albeit with transition periods or not. It does not address situations where a British Citizen is already inside the Schengen Area on any of those relevant dates, which is the whole point of my enquiry.

If using common sense I would expect anyone in authority to discount any one in before the actual date & start the 90 days from there.

 

[DBK]

My guess, and it is only that, is the 90 days would start from no-deal Brexit day.

A wrinkle I only recently came across is how the 90 days in any 180 might work based on when the 180 days starts. Working in whole months just for convenience (assume every month has 30 days) you could have a day trip to Calais on 1 July (triggering the start of the 180 day clock) then spend October to December in the Schengen Zone. At the end of this period you should be able to stay there for another three months then leave and not return for another three months. The trick is to use your 90 day allowances back to back which you could do providing you made the day trip to Calais in July.

 

[Popeye]

How would one country know who is a British tourist against who is a British permanent resident in another EU state ? Like me?

.......attitude and demeanor!

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[ChrisL]

My guess, and it is only that, is the 90 days would start from no-deal Brexit day.

A wrinkle I only recently came across is how the 90 days in any 180 might work based on when the 180 days starts. Working in whole months just for convenience (assume every month has 30 days) you could have a day trip to Calais on 1 July (triggering the start of the 180 day clock) then spend October to December in the Schengen Zone. At the end of this period you should be able to stay there for another three months then leave and not return for another three months. The trick is to use your 90 day allowances back to back which you could do providing you made the day trip to Calais in July.

I was under the impression that it is a rolling 180 day cycle so once your 90 days are up you will have to stay out for 90 days before you can come back.

Take a look at this .pdf document it may help.

 

[GPW]

All the VISA stuff for Europe is rubbish, scaremongering and FUD.

All we can do is make sure our passports are uptodate and see when the venal unelected politicians end up for us at the end of the day. Brexit is not the only game in town, Poland and Hungary are thorns in their side for not embracing mass invasions, Italy is slowly joining them and Macron is so unpopular bits or Paris are on fire every week.

So don't worry, just see what happens. Money talks, no one is going to ban british tourists or German cars, that's just a fact of life

 

[carolyn]

I was under the impression that it is a rolling 180 day cycle so once your 90 days are up you will have to stay out for 90 days before you can come back.

Take a look at this .pdf document it may help.

In the example quoted by @DBK it was a rolling period, the 1st period triggered on the 1st of July and then the 2nd period at the beginning of Jan, he was working on 30 day months for his example. We thought we were going to have do a similar sort of thing if we had crashed out without a deal on 29th of March as we are spending June and July in Europe and then October and November which would have been too many days. We were going to do a quick weekend to France on 1st April to start the 1st clock. God knows how it will work now!!
I'm sure it will work out somehow, all good fun.

 

[DBK]

I was under the impression that it is a rolling 180 day cycle so once your 90 days are up you will have to stay out for 90 days before you can come back.

Take a look at this .pdf document it may help.

Yes, you are right and it matches what I understood until someone tried to convince me otherwise after a few glasses of wine! The point is the rolling window.

 

[DBK]

All the VISA stuff for Europe is rubbish, scaremongering and FUD.

All we can do is make sure our passports are uptodate and see when the venal unelected politicians end up for us at the end of the day. Brexit is not the only game in town, Poland and Hungary are thorns in their side for not embracing mass invasions, Italy is slowly joining them and Macron is so unpopular bits or Paris are on fire every week.

So don't worry, just see what happens. Money talks, no one is going to ban british tourists or German cars, that's just a fact of life

I think you are missing the point that once outside the EU we will be treated like folk from Australia and the USA and limited to 90 day stays. This rule exists now and is being applied - I've met people from both these countries who would like to spend longer in Europe but couldn't.

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[carolyn]

Yes, you are right and it matches what I understood until someone tried to convince me otherwise after a few glasses of wine! The point is the rolling window.

Ah yes of course it would if fact then be 180 continuous. In my case the total would be ok, I was just manipulating the start date of the 1st window, then there would be a whole new 180 day stretch.

 

[SMB]

I'm abroad at the moment and, apart from having lost the will to live after following this charade for months, it has also left me beyond caring what happens. I plan to be back in the UK end of July at the latest and if we leave the EU without a deal before then just shoot me and send my body to Westminster c.o. The Maybot

 

[GPW]

I think you are missing the point that once outside the EU we will be treated like folk from Australia and the USA and limited to 90 day stays.

Not really.

The EU commission will do what it wants, there are no rules, the Commission decides what it wants to do when it wants to. There are no rules. We, the little people have rules, they don't, they make the rules.

IF we ever leave, we will be treated how the commission decides, and they have yet to decide.

 

[ChrisL]

Well i think if we are limited to 90 days in schengen countries i'll be spending my pention in Croatia instead of Spain.

 

[nicholsong]

Well i think if we are limited to 90 days in schengen countries i'll be spending my pention in Croatia instead of Spain.

If in a MH it appears that campsites are quite expensive and wildcamping illegal, so you may need a big pension.

Geoff

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[suavecarve]

What is the punishment for staying over 90 days in 180.

I m all right as I fly back a couple of times, but the wife remains out there and we will be breaking the rules in September.

Am I able to look forward to her being holed up in a French prison for months ?

 

[Tykatem]

What is the punishment for staying over 90 days in 180.

This what the EU have to say......

If you are being tempted to do such thing, you should just know the following things:

First thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.

Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be a fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/consequences-of-overstaying-in-schengen-area/

Pete

 

[worky]

Well i think if we are limited to 90 days in schengen countries i'll be spending my pention in Croatia instead of Spain.

hya - you may be able to do that or perhaps not after next year !

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cheers

Clyde

 

[The Wino]

In the true spirit of b****t nobody knows!!!!!

 

[carolyn]

What is the punishment for staying over 90 days in 180.

I m all right as I fly back a couple of times, but the wife remains out there and we will be breaking the rules in September.

Am I able to look forward to her being holed up in a French prison for months ?

None of us know of course, but if we overstay, the problem might not be whilst we're in the country, it might be when we tried to get back into France or Spain etc. at a later date. We might not be allowed in. That's what would happen to a US citizen under Schengen so worst case scenario with no nice arrangement. It's interesting for some of us to speculate but we really don't know until we know what's going to happen and when with the B word.

My careful planning for 29th March doesn't fit anywhere near as well around 12th April or 22nd May and my current holidays! What's that saying, men plan and God laughs ?

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[The Wino]

None of us know of course, but if we overstay, the problem might not be whilst we're in the country, it might be when we tried to get back into France or Spain etc. at a later date. We might not be allowed in. That's what would happen to a US citizen under Schengen so worst case scenario with no nice arrangement. It's interesting for some of us to speculate but we really don't know until we know what's going to happen and when with the B word.

My careful planning for 29th March doesn't fit anywhere near as well around 12th April or 22nd May and my current holidays! What's that saying, men plan and God laughs ?

I think describing brexit as a "plan" is stretching it a bit!!!!

 

[carolyn]

I think describing brexit as a "plan" is stretching it a bit!!!!

I didn't at any point describe B... as a plan! I was laughing at myself planning things. Of course I am a woman planning things so you can correct me on that bit if you like.

 

[2657]

Why should leaving the EU have any effect on travelling to Schengen states, we are not in the Schengen area now?

"Note: Although most of the Schengen countries are in the European Union, you should not confuse the Schengen Area with the EU."

From: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/

 

[Tykatem]

Why should leaving the EU have any effect on travelling to Schengen states, we are not in the Schengen area now?

"Note: Although most of the Schengen countries are in the European Union, you should not confuse the Schengen Area with the EU."

From: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/

Because If the deal is eventually approved by parliament, there will be a transition period and British people will continue to be able to go to Europe without a visa until the implementation of ETIAS in 2021. However, there is also the posibility of the UK leaving the EU without a deal which could make it more complicated for British people to travel to the continent.

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Pete

 

[2657]

Because If the deal is eventually approved by parliament, there will be a transition period and British people will continue to be able to go to Europe without a visa until the implementation of ETIAS in 2021. However, there is also the posibility of the UK leaving the EU without a deal which could make it more complicated for British people to travel to the continent.

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Pete

That explains what will happen but I do not fully understand why if the Schengen area/agreement is not the same as being a member of the EU.

Currently Multiple entry Schengen Visa's apply the 3 months in 6 rule, when ETIAS comes into force the visa waiver is for 3 years so does this 3 months in 6 months rule in any Schengen country then lapse and travellers will then be subject to the current rules that apply to residents of Schengen countries ie apply for residency after 3 months?

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