Hi, I need to replace the very tired leisure battery in our 2014 Autocruise Accent. Does anyone have experience of charging gel batteries with the sargent px 300 smart charger which is fitted in the van? I have been in touch with sargent who assure me the charging profile is compatible but would be interested if anyone has first hand experience.Thanks Andrew.
sargent px 300 charger and gel batteries
- Thread starter suffolk man
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You might want to check that out again.
Hi, yes this is the document they emailed me. The charge phase is within the specs for a gel battery but the floating charge is what worries me a bit
Lenny HB
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PX 300 is totally unsuitable for Gels is does not have an absorption phase so a gel will never get charged past 80%.
I will go further and say it probably won't charge any type of battery fully, even a basic flooded battery needs an hour of absorption to ensure a 100% charge.
I will go further and say it probably won't charge any type of battery fully, even a basic flooded battery needs an hour of absorption to ensure a 100% charge.
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um possible numpty question, if it is so useless, why is it fitted ?
Lenny HB
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- Oct 18, 2007
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It's cheap less than a third of the price of chargers fitted to German vans.
The charger is configured to work with standard lead acid leisure batteries, and in most cases is also compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries. Before fitting non-standard batteries please check that the charging profile described above is suitable for the type of battery by referring to the battery documentation or battery manufacturer. The recommended battery capacity is 85 to 220Ah
A and N Caravan Services. Try these people, their website is very informative.
Looks like this technical paper is in agreement with you.
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GEL battery charging
The first stage in a 3 or 4 stage charging algorithm is the Bulk Stage. Typically the Bulk Stage is a Constant Current (CC) charge but may also be Constant Power, Pulse Current or Taper Charge. In this stage the optimum charge current should be limited to less than or equal to 20 amps per 100 ampere hour (20 hour rate) of battery capacity or .2C. This stage should end when the cell voltage is = to 2.38-2.42V/Cell at 25°C/77°F. The maximum time in hours should = 1.2 times the DOD (in AH) divided by the average charge current in amps. If this time is exceeded, charging should be stopped and the battery and/or charge process should be analyzed. This stage will represent approximately 60% of the total charge time. The battery will be nearing 80%-90% charged at the end of this stage.
The second stage is the Absorption Stage. Typically this stage is a Constant Voltage (CV) stage where the terminal voltage is maintained at 2.38-2.42V/Cell at 25°C/77°F (adjusting for temperature). The charge current is maintained until current acceptance drops by less than .1 ampere over a 1 hour period. This stage should take the battery to 100% charged and should not take longer than 10-12 hours. If this time is exceeded, charging should be stopped and the battery and/or charge process should be analyzed.
The third stage is the Float Stage or maintenance and monitor stage. This step is generally not needed if; no load is present when the batteries device is not in operation; the batteries device is used on a regular basis and does not sit idle for lengthy periods of time. Float voltage should be maintained at 2.25-2.30 V/Cell.
If a Balance Mode is included in the charging algorithm it would typically happen after the Absorption Stage. This would become the third stage and the Float Stage would then become the fourth stage. A balance mode is similar to an Equalize function for flooded batteries but is performed at a lower voltage and/or is tightly controlled against current, voltage and time.
To compensate for battery temperature not at 25°C, subtract 0.005 V/Cell for each 1°C above 25°C, and add 0.005 V/Cell for each 1°C below 25°C.
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Looks like this technical paper is in agreement with you.
Search Our Site | Discover Battery
GEL battery charging
The first stage in a 3 or 4 stage charging algorithm is the Bulk Stage. Typically the Bulk Stage is a Constant Current (CC) charge but may also be Constant Power, Pulse Current or Taper Charge. In this stage the optimum charge current should be limited to less than or equal to 20 amps per 100 ampere hour (20 hour rate) of battery capacity or .2C. This stage should end when the cell voltage is = to 2.38-2.42V/Cell at 25°C/77°F. The maximum time in hours should = 1.2 times the DOD (in AH) divided by the average charge current in amps. If this time is exceeded, charging should be stopped and the battery and/or charge process should be analyzed. This stage will represent approximately 60% of the total charge time. The battery will be nearing 80%-90% charged at the end of this stage.
The second stage is the Absorption Stage. Typically this stage is a Constant Voltage (CV) stage where the terminal voltage is maintained at 2.38-2.42V/Cell at 25°C/77°F (adjusting for temperature). The charge current is maintained until current acceptance drops by less than .1 ampere over a 1 hour period. This stage should take the battery to 100% charged and should not take longer than 10-12 hours. If this time is exceeded, charging should be stopped and the battery and/or charge process should be analyzed.
The third stage is the Float Stage or maintenance and monitor stage. This step is generally not needed if; no load is present when the batteries device is not in operation; the batteries device is used on a regular basis and does not sit idle for lengthy periods of time. Float voltage should be maintained at 2.25-2.30 V/Cell.
If a Balance Mode is included in the charging algorithm it would typically happen after the Absorption Stage. This would become the third stage and the Float Stage would then become the fourth stage. A balance mode is similar to an Equalize function for flooded batteries but is performed at a lower voltage and/or is tightly controlled against current, voltage and time.
To compensate for battery temperature not at 25°C, subtract 0.005 V/Cell for each 1°C above 25°C, and add 0.005 V/Cell for each 1°C below 25°C.
Am I missing something?
I‘m not seeing any conflict in the information above and the following info from the PX300 (The voltages and nature of the charging (constant current and constant voltage phases) appear to be the same):
Ian
Sargent state the following for this charger.
The charger is configured to work with standard lead acid leisure batteries, and in most cases is also compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries.
If it was suitable for Gel batteries they would have included them in the above statement. Clearly this charger is not suitable for Gel Batteries.
The charger is configured to work with standard lead acid leisure batteries, and in most cases is also compatible with the latest range of Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM) batteries.
If it was suitable for Gel batteries they would have included them in the above statement. Clearly this charger is not suitable for Gel Batteries.
Lenny HB
LIFE MEMBER
- Oct 18, 2007
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It is only a 2 stage charger only bulk & float no absorption phase. The diagram makes you think it is a 3 stage because they show the soft start.
It's in the detail of how it decides exactly when the second charge stage is complete.
The SC300 skates over this, simply saying "When the battery is charged, the voltage is decreased at stage 3...". Typically they finish stage 2 when the current drops to a threshold value. As you can see from the charge current curve in the graph.
I‘m still struggling with this. Comparing with this, it still looks like bulk, absorption and float to me?
Ian
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Stage 1 is constant current 'Bulk' charge. It's not a soft start.
Stage 2 is constant voltage 'Absorption' charge. It's not extended enough for 'recombination' required by gel and many AGM batteries.
Stage 3 is constant voltage 'Float' charge.
Thanks for that.
On that basis, if you had one, would you use it to charge a gel battery (the OP’s question)?
Ian
Once, no problem. Permanently, it's not ideal. the battery will gradually degrade because it will never get fully charged.
Well I am glad that's all clear??? thanks to one and all for your input. The px300 is definitely not suitable for gel or agm. I will be ordering Varta lfd/Bosch L batteries
You might want to have a look at the Yuasa L36 EFB battery
12v Yuasa 100ah EFB Leisure Battery (L36-EFB) - Alpha Batteries
New exciting EFB technology. Ideal for Motorhomes, Caravans and Boats
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk
12v 100AH Exide ET650 Semi Traction Leisure Battery NCC Class A (N/A) - Alpha Batteries
12v Exide 100ah ET650 semi traction leisure battery One of the best traditional wet lead acid batteries on the market. Ideal […]
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk
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Thanks for that. They are definitely both good batteries. My concern with the yuasa efb is that it requires a vent pipe and the battery box in the van is under the bed and unvented
I think you will find all Lead Acid batteries require venting ???
You may find this of interest.
You may find this of interest.
Varta LFD90 - Vent or not?
Maybe I'm being too fastidious ........ but here goes. My two new LFD90s arrived today - great service from Battery Megastore. The box contained some vent tubing. The batteries will be installed under the bunk where I sleep (where current battery is located). One metre behind in same bunk is the ...
forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk
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