Residency / Citizenship in another EU country - How easy or hard?

[Freespirit1]

One for our ex pat Funsters here please?

Can you tell us how easy or hard it is to get Residency or Citizenship it another EU country other than the U.K.

Would you as residents/ dual citizens benefit from the Travel and freedom of movement you have now as EU residents / citizens in dual EU countries when the U.K. leaves the EU?

I understand that if when we travel to somewhere like Spain we overstay the 183 days we automatically are then considered as residents by that country - is this correct? If so what are the implications - I also understand that should we be driving a U.K. registered vehicle we can continue to drive that vehicle on Spanish roads as long as it is legal in the U.K. - that is : it has valid mot, road tax, and valid insurance. Therefore the vehicle would only become illegal to drive when any one of those requirements runs out.

Many thanks in anticipation of some sound advice and maybe we could all (including me) refrain from encouraging Remain / Leave the EU debate!

 

[Deleted member 29692]

The short answer is it depends which country you have in mind. They don’t all have the same requirements.

 

[Freespirit1]

The short answer is it depends which country you have in mind. They don’t all have the same requirements.

A good start - yes that’s what I was thinking too - i’m Using Spain in this example but it would indeed be good to compare all to see which one is our best option

 

[Decaf]

I understand that if when we travel to somewhere like Spain we overstay the 183 days we automatically are then considered as residents by that country

Your understanding is incorrect. That's bunkum. Visitors who overstay the permitted period are merely unlawful visitors with no rights of residence or anything else for that matter.

 

[Freespirit1]

Your understanding is incorrect. That's bunkum. Visitors who overstay the permitted period are merely unlawful visitors with no rights of residence or anything else for that matter.

Well - if you had quoted me correctly - I did ask if that was correct? You will start to degenerate the thread by saying it’s bunkum and risk infringing rule one of the site

Thank you however for your input

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jumartoo]

Start with this.

www.citizensadvice.org.es

And do a search

Then come back with more questions

 

[sueandjohn]

The 183 day rule Is for tax but more complicated than just that - see gov.uk for HMRC rules
It’s all to do with where you pay your tax

Get good sound advice

 

[Snowbird]

Once resident in Spain, then it is against the law to drive a foreign registered vehicle, ie, UK registered. No ifs, no buts.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Also residency and citizenship are not in any way the same thing.

No matter what country you’re talking about two completely different sets of requirements and laws apply.

 

[Freespirit1]

Once resident in Spain, then it is against the law to drive a foreign registered vehicle, ie, UK registered. No ifs, no buts.

So are you saying that if you become a resident in Spain but hold a British passport you can’t return from a trip to the U.K. driving a U.K. legal and registered vehicle? Can you in fact as I have asked in the opening thread have residency in both Spain and the U.K.?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[EuroTrotters]

So are you saying that if you become a resident in Spain but hold a British passport you can’t return from a trip to the U.K. driving a U.K. legal and registered vehicle? Can you in fact as I have asked in the opening thread have residency in both Spain and the U.K.?

Gus-Lopez seems to have the knowledge.

 

[Falcon 269]

So are you saying that if you become a resident in Spain but hold a British passport you can’t return from a trip to the U.K. driving a U.K. legal and registered vehicle? Can you in fact as I have asked in the opening thread have residency in both Spain and the U.K.?

Snowbird's quote is not quite accurate. Close but not quite there ...

If you own the vehicle, are a Spanish resident and intend to keep it in Spain then you have a short period (30 days, IIRC, or thereabouts) in which to re-register it.

Should you bring a non-Spanish registered vehicle over for a shorter period, you would be legally entitled to drive it provided it has in-date insurance, MOT and tax.

 

[gus-lopez]

One for our ex pat Funsters here please?

Can you tell us how easy or hard it is to get Residency or Citizenship it another EU country other than the U.K.

Would you as residents/ dual citizens benefit from the Travel and freedom of movement you have now as EU residents / citizens in dual EU countries when the U.K. leaves the EU?

I understand that if when we travel to somewhere like Spain we overstay the 183 days we automatically are then considered as residents by that country - is this correct? If so what are the implications - I also understand that should we be driving a U.K. registered vehicle we can continue to drive that vehicle on Spanish roads as long as it is legal in the U.K. - that is : it has valid mot, road tax, and valid insurance. Therefore the vehicle would only become illegal to drive when any one of those requirements runs out.

Many thanks in anticipation of some sound advice and maybe we could all (including me) refrain from encouraging Remain / Leave the EU debate!

residency is completely different to citizen ship/nationality
As an EU citizen in another state some require you to register as such, Spain ,Greece , after 90 days consecutively . If you know when coming that you are going to stay permanently then the registration requirement is immediate.
If required to register & you do not do so then the offence committed is " failing to register " with a 300€ fine. You can't be thrown out .

Failing to register, or exceeding the 90 days consecutivelly as a tourist, means you AUTOMATICALLY are classed as a resident .
That is what EU directive is about. No state can confer the right of residency on a citizen from another state but the citizen determines the right. You just have to register on the foreigners list to comply.

Exceeding 183 days, cumulatively, makes you a fiscal resident.
You can be a fiscal resident without being a resident & a resident without being a fiscal resident.


For citizenship this is what was told to my friends son who is studying Law here in Murcia.

A ) uk police good conduct report

B) spanish national police good conduct report

C) full private medical

D) job contract within spain or min income from outside of spain of 24k pa ( could be 28k )

E) 2 exams in spanish approx cost 900e however if you have been educated in spain and have a bacalorate ,you might only need to do 1 exam

F) a birth cert copy stamped by the uk foreign office

G) you can only apply online and must have had 10 years in spain as an eu citizen

if your south american or from an ex spanish colony then you have an historic right and the process is a lot more straight forward.

when he asked the uk consulate....they were a bit....clue less apparently

A & B would be covered under ECRIS system so only one application, in Spain, would need to be done.
C) if retired would be covered by the S1 as it is at the moment as EU citizens. If done as non-EU then C is correct
D) wouldn't apply if retired apart from the money & that shown is based on being a non EU citizen. If it was , as it is now , done as an EU citizen then the most per person would be the minimum basic spanish pension amount of just under 6000€
G) That is 10 years as an official registered resident
12 months is given as the normal time expected to take but no one has been known to ever have had it done in that time frame & an acquaintance on a spanish forum applied before Brexit & took 2 years & 8months to receive it. His wife who applied at the same time was still waiting even though as wife of a now Spanish national she would receive it automatically.

Or if you have the money as a Non -EU you can go down the 'residency' route with a 500k € house purchase , a la Russians.

Your understanding is incorrect. That's bunkum. Visitors who overstay the permitted period are merely unlawful visitors with no rights of residence or anything else for that matter.

If you take that attitude & they want to be funny then after 90 consecutive days you would be a 'resident' Then you would be fined the minimum 300€ for 'failing to register.
As you have exceeded the 90 days consecutively then under EU rules you are automatically a resident. Then they will impound the vehicle as a Spanish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle. If it gets out of hand & they issue replate papers it will,& has ,all ended in tears . It would take , & has taken others, months to sort out
Only legal way to exceed 90 consecutive days here is to apply at the foreigners office where you are for a 'certificate of non-residence' you are covered then.

 

[gus-lopez]

Snowbird's quote is not quite accurate. Close but not quite there ...

If you own the vehicle, are a Spanish resident and intend to keep it in Spain then you have a short period (30 days, IIRC, or thereabouts) in which to re-register it.

Should you bring a non-Spanish registered vehicle over for a shorter period, you would be legally entitled to drive it provided it has in-date insurance, MOT and tax.

No you wouldn't It is written in stone.
Once a 'Resident' you cannot legally drive any foreign registered vehicle,nothing whatsoever for any period of time. Only exceptions are ¡professional' drivers , who may drive for a company that registers vehicles in another state & car hire employee's who may be required to return an inter EU state rental to original state.

Additionally you are correct in having 30 days approx to re .register it. What you haven't stated is that it cannot be driven except to/from an itv station for test/paperwork.

 

[Falcon 269]

So, as a Spanish resident, if I rented a car just over the border in France and then drove it in to Spain, I would be breaking the law?

Spanish bureaucracy is a never-ending source of mystery to me.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Freespirit1]

residency is completely different to citizen ship/nationality
As an EU citizen in another state some require you to register as such, Spain ,Greece , after 90 days consecutively . If you know when coming that you are going to stay permanently then the registration requirement is immediate.
If required to register & you do not do so then the offence committed is " failing to register " with a 300€ fine. You can't be thrown out .

Failing to register, or exceeding the 90 days consecutivelly as a tourist, means you AUTOMATICALLY are classed as a resident .
That is what EU directive is about. No state can confer the right of residency on a citizen from another state but the citizen determines the right. You just have to register on the foreigners list to comply.

Exceeding 183 days, cumulatively, makes you a fiscal resident.
You can be a fiscal resident without being a resident & a resident without being a fiscal resident.


For citizenship this is what was told to my friends son who is studying Law here in Murcia.

A ) uk police good conduct report

B) spanish national police good conduct report

C) full private medical

D) job contract within spain or min income from outside of spain of 24k pa ( could be 28k )

E) 2 exams in spanish approx cost 900e however if you have been educated in spain and have a bacalorate ,you might only need to do 1 exam

F) a birth cert copy stamped by the uk foreign office

G) you can only apply online and must have had 10 years in spain as an eu citizen

if your south american or from an ex spanish colony then you have an historic right and the process is a lot more straight forward.

when he asked the uk consulate....they were a bit....clue less apparently

A & B would be covered under ECRIS system so only one application, in Spain, would need to be done.
C) if retired would be covered by the S1 as it is at the moment as EU citizens. If done as non-EU then C is correct
D) wouldn't apply if retired apart from the money & that shown is based on being a non EU citizen. If it was , as it is now , done as an EU citizen then the most per person would be the minimum basic spanish pension amount of just under 6000€
G) That is 10 years as an official registered resident
12 months is given as the normal time expected to take but no one has been known to ever have had it done in that time frame & an acquaintance on a spanish forum applied before Brexit & took 2 years & 8months to receive it. His wife who applied at the same time was still waiting even though as wife of a now Spanish national she would receive it automatically.

Or if you have the money as a Non -EU you can go down the 'residency' route with a 500k € house purchase , a la Russians.




If you take that attitude & they want to be funny then after 90 consecutive days you would be a 'resident' Then you would be fined the minimum 300€ for 'failing to register.
As you have exceeded the 90 days consecutively then under EU rules you are automatically a resident. Then they will impound the vehicle as a Spanish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle. If it gets out of hand & they issue replate papers it will,& has ,all ended in tears . It would take , & has taken others, months to sort out
Only legal way to exceed 90 consecutive days here is to apply at the foreigners office where you are for a 'certificate of non-residence' you are covered then.

Wow - many thanks indeed for that - much appreciated!

The 90 day thing bothers me and maybe should bother the Many Funsters who winter in Spain and especially cluster in Benidorm for longer periods?

Do they need to exit Spain for say a day or two to break the 90 day consecutive rule? (Obviously before the 90 days are up) to reset for another 89 days? I was under the impression that we could stay within Spain for 183 days consecutively - so in reality in any 12 month period starting with the date of entry into Spain or its territories then we can only stay for up to 183 days and in two stints of 89 days?

 

[Ivory55]

Be easier to get an Iranian passport and have boris come round for tea. Haha

 

[poacher]

As someone who HAD residency - I had my UK registered car impounded for bringing it into Spain for more than 30 days - I was required to import and register it in Spain
(fortunately they didn't stop me in the motorhome)
Although I imported it to get it released by the Guardia Civil & Customs - before getting it registered I exported it & shipped it back to the UK in a container

Then I course I suppose I should have re-imported it to the UK ???? !!

An expensive exercise IF you get caught

(In my part of Spain they are checking foreign registered vehicles to find out if the owner is a resident / how long the car has been in Spain - there has been a decline in the number of Polish registered cars)

 

[spitfire]

As far as France is concerned one day over 6 months and you are considered resident for tax purposes . If u intend to remain in the country you must reregister your vehicles . No ifs or buts and they do check. We live in a country area and as an example we're stopped last week to check our licence and vehicle paperwork and in a place you would never expect !
Until after dare I say Brexit you need no paperwork to stay here but you can apply for a Carte de Séjour with all the relèvent paperwork. You must register for tax and healthcare which is only covered about 70% So an insurance to cover the rest is required unless you want to take a risk and cover it yourself . Not really that wise !
After 5 years of residence you can apply for citizenship which can take up to 2 years and a fair bit of translated birth , marriage and death certificates if your family ! Under age 60 a certificate of French language is required . Over 60 not needed but you must show at your interview a good command of the language and the history and the country in general

 

[klaatu]

we're stopped last week to check our licence and vehicle paperwork and in a place you would never expect

Surely not I thought it was just customs officers who checked there!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[spitfire]

Surely not I thought it was just customs officers who checked there!

Not at all ! Was a gendarme check point

 

[mikebeaches]

Regardless of residency, I was under the impression it was illegal for a British registered vehicle (taxed, insured, MOT'd etc) to remain in Spain for a consecutive period of more than 6 months?

So for example, even if you fly in and out of the country periodically - the vehicle must not remain longer than the above duration.

Not sure if that is accurate or not?

 

[Freespirit1]

Regardless of residency, I was under the impression it was illegal for a British registered vehicle (taxed, insured, MOT'd etc) to remain in Spain for a consecutive period of more than 6 months?

So for example, even if you fly in and out of the country periodically - the vehicle must not remain longer than the above duration.

Not sure if that is accurate or not?

I was too - however i’ve found this info with the lifestyle group based in Southern Spain which is saying different.

 

[Decaf]

Thank you however for your input

Apologies, no offence intended. Bunkum with a smile?

 

[gus-lopez]

So, as a Spanish resident, if I rented a car just over the border in France and then drove it in to Spain, I would be breaking the law?

Spanish bureaucracy is a never-ending source of mystery to me.

Yes.

Wow - many thanks indeed for that - much appreciated!

The 90 day thing bothers me and maybe should bother the Many Funsters who winter in Spain and especially cluster in Benidorm for longer periods?

Do they need to exit Spain for say a day or two to break the 90 day consecutive rule? (Obviously before the 90 days are up) to reset for another 89 days? I was under the impression that we could stay within Spain for 183 days consecutively - so in reality in any 12 month period starting with the date of entry into Spain or its territories then we can only stay for up to 183 days and in two stints of 89 days?

Yes ,89 days & leave clock resets. any amount of visits up to 182 days

Regardless of residency, I was under the impression it was illegal for a British registered vehicle (taxed, insured, MOT'd etc) to remain in Spain for a consecutive period of more than 6 months?

So for example, even if you fly in and out of the country periodically - the vehicle must not remain longer than the above duration.

Not sure if that is accurate or not?

It does still remain on the books & what you used to do was after the 6 months get it 'precintado' , sealed, By the Guardia. Chances of being able to get them to do it now is not very likely.

Well - i’ve found this info with the lifestyle group based in Southern Spain

It is when you read stuff like that you understand were the nonsense comes from.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mikebeaches]

I was too - however i’ve found this info with the lifestyle group based in Southern Spain which is saying different.

Informative - it looks as though I was under a misapprehension.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Freespirit1]

It is when you read stuff like that you understand were the nonsense comes from.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that the lifestyle group are right or wrong please?

 

[Makingtrax]

Well - if you had quoted me correctly - I did ask if that was correct? You will start to degenerate the thread by saying it’s bunkum and risk infringing rule one of the site

Thank you however for your input

 

[Makingtrax]

One for our ex pat Funsters here please?

Can you tell us how easy or hard it is to get Residency or Citizenship it another EU country other than the U.K.

Would you as residents/ dual citizens benefit from the Travel and freedom of movement you have now as EU residents / citizens in dual EU countries when the U.K. leaves the EU?

I understand that if when we travel to somewhere like Spain we overstay the 183 days we automatically are then considered as residents by that country - is this correct? If so what are the implications - I also understand that should we be driving a U.K. registered vehicle we can continue to drive that vehicle on Spanish roads as long as it is legal in the U.K. - that is : it has valid mot, road tax, and valid insurance. Therefore the vehicle would only become illegal to drive when any one of those requirements runs out.

Many thanks in anticipation of some sound advice and maybe we could all (including me) refrain from encouraging Remain / Leave the EU debate!

What should definitely happen is after Brexit, those that want to remain part of Europe should be allowed to keep their EU citizenship to work and travel freely. This from the independent:

The Brexit Secretary said he would “look seriously” at “associate citizenship” – and idea backed by the European Parliament to allow Brits to keep the right to live and work in the EU.

Us associate citizens, can then move freely between borders, use the E111, have EU number plates, maroon passports, can enjoy EU food and have the European Court of Human rights to protect us.

Those that want to disassociate themselves from the EU can have their shiny new blue British only passports,GB license plates, get stopped at borders, have extra health insurance, get ruled by British politicians only and eat using their ration cards.

It's a superb solution to the whole thing.

 

[Snowbird]

It is when you read stuff like that you understand were the nonsense comes from.

Are you saying that the lifestyle group are right or wrong please?[/QUOTE]

Having belonged to three expat "lifestyle" groups over the years, Spanish, French, and Bulgarian I soon learned that 90% of those living as expats had no idea what they were or were not allowed to do. Many make up laws and interpret there adoptive countries laws whichever way suits them best at the time. Dangerous ground indeed . Many ask a question and if the answer is not what they want go onto another forum and aske the same question hoping to get an answer they want. Not unlike the legality of Aframes really.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}