Remapping Your Motorhome

[Landy Andy]

Won’t matter for most vehicles as the engine isn’t under load. They are just free reving the engine. MOT centres don’t, and won’t have rolling roads or be road tested. Many modern engines won’t even rev to red line without being driven.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Didn’t even have mine running for it’s first MOT last November bloke looked at it said are you ok driving it over the pit for mehe then asked me to do lights, wipers and washers had a walk underneath said it’s fine and that was that got me certificate and drove off

 

[Bessy765]

Always remember the weakest link in the chain on a remap is the clutch. I am considering whether to have mine done, 2019 Burstner A class Fiat 2.3 150 hp Comformatic 27,200 miles owned from new. Runs close to 4400 kgs as mostly 90 day trips. Plated at 4500 kgs.

 

[tinkertaylor]

Uk remaps take advantage of our higher fuel specs when compared to around the world specs that are lower, the manufacturer maps the car to the lowest fuel spec.

 

[dunnah01]

All standard remaps do in a modern turbo diesel engine is change the amount of torque delivered at a given throttle pedal position and can also fool the ECU into not activating certain emissions systems (EGR, Adblue, stop/start etc ) to work around issues. The remap can also increase the rev limit to up the power but this is a bit pointless on a turbo diesel engine where torque is available in bucket loads from very low revs. If the emissions systems are bypassed then you will no longer be the Euro compliant for your original engine.

Some remaps may try to increase the torque beyond the manufacturers preset maximum but this is going into Stage 2 remaps, which start to nibble at the mechanical limits set by the manufacturers.
The weak point is usually the drivetrain and the gearbox itself is usually the weakest point in this. Our 3.0l Ducato gearbox is rated at 400Nm of torque which is also the torque limit dialled into the standard ECU map. A remap could give me in excess of 500Nm if I wanted and as a non dpf Euro IV engine it would pass any MOT smoke test, but I'd be nervous putting an extra 25% torque through any standard mechanical system.

A good standard remap doesn't increase the max torque but increases the requested torque at lower revs and so improves driveability by reducing gear changes. This keeps the mechanical bits within their design capacity, although ultimately may cause slightly earlier component failure from long term mechanical fatigue if you frequently request more torque at lower revs than the manufacturer intended.

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[JockandRita]

We seem to average 18-22 on our Iveco but if in a hurry 15

Our fuel consumption is about the same Steve, and it has been remapped.

I know a former Funster who went through 2 x clutches, due to a remap on his Fiat Ducato 244 based Hymer.
He had the remap removed once the cutch was replaced again, and never suffered a problem thereafter.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

All standard remaps do in a modern turbo diesel engine is change the amount of torque delivered at a given throttle pedal position and can also fool the ECU into not activating certain emissions systems (EGR, Adblue, stop/start etc ) to work around issues. The remap can also increase the rev limit to up the power but this is a bit pointless on a turbo diesel engine where torque is available in bucket loads from very low revs. If the emissions systems are bypassed then you will no longer be the Euro compliant for your original engine.

Some remaps may try to increase the torque beyond the manufacturers preset maximum but this is going into Stage 2 remaps, which start to nibble at the mechanical limits set by the manufacturers.
The weak point is usually the drivetrain and the gearbox itself is usually the weakest point in this. Our 3.0l Ducato gearbox is rated at 400Nm of torque which is also the torque limit dialled into the standard ECU map. A remap could give me in excess of 500Nm if I wanted and as a non dpf Euro IV engine it would pass any MOT smoke test, but I'd be nervous putting an extra 25% torque through any standard mechanical system.

A good standard remap doesn't increase the max torque but increases the requested torque at lower revs and so improves driveability by reducing gear changes. This keeps the mechanical bits within their design capacity, although ultimately may cause slightly earlier component failure from long term mechanical fatigue if you frequently request more torque at lower revs than the manufacturer intended.

I would have said all the remap torque curves I have seen lift the torque through the rev range, yes it may start earlier but maximum is also higher and therefore increases the power as well.

 

[BusyBuilder]

We had our 2.3 130bhp Hymer (4.25t) remapped, has made a big difference to driveability. Welive in Highlands so lots of hills, some we were in 1st or 2nd gear, but now 2nd or 3rd. And just drives a lot nicer. Not noticed much improvement in mpg though.

 

[dunnah01]

I would have said all the remap torque curves I have seen lift the torque through the rev range, yes it may start earlier but maximum is also higher and therefore increases the power as well.

Agree that many high street maps are a bit cavalier with the power and torque but they don't have to worry about warranties etc..

 

[Steve and Denise]

Our fuel consumption is about the same Steve, and it has been remapped.

I know a former Funster who went through 2 x clutches, due to a remap on his Fiat Ducato 244 based Hymer.
He had the remap removed once the cutch was replaced again, and never suffered a problem thereafter.

Cheers,

Jock.

From memory Jock when you had clutch failure was this before or after your remapping?

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[Genear]

Remapping is a Marmite topic - those who have it done really like it, and those who don't like the idea of it will often cite a story of 'someone' (rarely ever them) who had a problem.

I've done both our vans. Previous was a 2006 2.8L Peugeot and then a 2016 3.0 180Hp Fiat with comfortmatic, and we run at 4600Kg
Made a bigger diffreance on the older van, but I still think it is worthwhile - Rev's better..pulls better..economy is better.

Get it done by someone professional - Quantum or Celtic and enjoy it!

 

[JockandRita]

From memory Jock when you had clutch failure was this before or after your remapping?

The remapping was done long before we took ownership.

Knowing of the former Funster's woes Steve, upon removal and replacement I asked if the dual mass flywheel failure, (not clutch), could have been caused by the extra torque applied by the remapping. The answer was a definite no, ie, the clutch plate would have failed first, and although failure of the centre boss of the DM flywheel wasn't unknown, this was the first my HGV mechanic pal had experienced in his 30 x plus years. I was just unlucky.

Had we not been keeping the MH long term, he would have put the original clutch plate back, as it was in very good condition with hardly any wear at all, when compared to the new one.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Steve and Denise]

The remapping was done long before we took ownership.

Knowing of the former Funster's woes Steve, upon removal and replacement I asked if the dual mass flywheel failure, (not clutch), could have been caused by the extra torque applied by the remapping. The answer was a definite no, ie, the clutch plate would have failed first, and although failure of the centre boss of the DM flywheel wasn't unknown, this was the first my HGV mechanic pal had experienced in his 30 x plus years. I was just unlucky.

Had we not been keeping the MH long term, he would have put the original clutch plate back, as it was in very good condition with hardly any wear at all, when compared to the new one.

Cheers,

Jock.

I would imagine the Daily clutch to be more than man enough for the job I think it’s the same one fitted to the 210hp version,
As you say more a case of bad luck.

 

[the1andonly]

Glad it’s worked.

I am just skeptical I suppose, I mean, why didn’t they do it in the first place if it’s so good?

What are the downsides?

Fiat does the 180 is just a mapped 150.
Vw does the 75 UP! Is just a mapped 60
The original map has to deal with a wide variety of country conditions and fuel quality available so pick a safe sweet spot. There are probably other examples but those are 2 i know of.

 

[Googlebot]

Fiat does the 180 is just a mapped 150.
Vw does the 75 UP! Is just a mapped 60
The original map has to deal with a wide variety of country conditions and fuel quality available so pick a safe sweet spot. There are probably other examples but those are 2 i know of.

So if I have a 130 Fiat, what can I get without breaking stuff?

It’s a minefield which always puts me off, don’t get me wrong, free power is free power. Well, not free, but you get the drift.

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[dunnah01]

Fiat does the 180 is just a mapped 150.
Vw does the 75 UP! Is just a mapped 60
The original map has to deal with a wide variety of country conditions and fuel quality available so pick a safe sweet spot. There are probably other examples but those are 2 i know of.

That's more how petrol maps are written. Turbo diesel maps just give a torque based on throttle position. Any fuel quality is adjusted when determining the fuel quantity to inject to achieve the desired torque. The performance maps will up the boost pressure a bit at lower revs and this adds a bit more fuel to increase torque. Standard maps just increase the requested torque for a given throttle position to provide an increase in the torque at lower revs where they are usually needed in a diesel.

 

[dunnah01]

So if I have a 130 Fiat, what can I get without breaking stuff?

It’s a minefield which always puts me off, don’t get me wrong, free power is free power. Well, not free, but you get the drift.

A stage 1 will give you 160bhp which is pretty meaningless tbh. but it gives you 370Nm of torque which is ok for the gearbox.

 

[pappajohn]

MOTs only test emissions at idle.

Since when?
Every diesel I've had has been tested at high revs..... Not constant but a 'floor it' to around 4000 rpm for a second or two.
Usually asked when/if the cam belts been changed as if it snaps during the test they are liable for repair.

 

[Guigsy]

Since when?
Every diesel I've had has been tested at high revs..... Not constant but a 'floor it' to around 4000 rpm for a second or two.
Usually asked when/if the cam belts been changed as if it snaps during the test they are liable for repair.

Apologies, what I meant was, in neutral. Not under continuous load.

 

[pappajohn]

Didn’t even have mine running for it’s first MOT last November bloke looked at it said are you ok driving it over the pit for mehe then asked me to do lights, wipers and washers had a walk underneath said it’s fine and that was that got me certificate and drove off

Not worth the paper it's printed on then.
Rolling Road for brake test.
Analyser for emmisions test.
Both linked to computer for record.
Without the above the computer can't print the certificate.

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[Landy Andy]

Not worth the paper it's printed on then.
Rolling Road for brake test.
Analyser for emmisions test.
Both linked to computer for record.
Without the above the computer can't print the certificate.

None of the MOTs are worth the paper these days as that is only a receipt not a certificate like it used to be. What is on the data base is what counts.
Not all MOT tests use a rolling road, or even rollers.
All these things have get arounds anyway. They always have and always will.

 

[eurajohn]

Fiat does the 180 is just a mapped 150.
Vw does the 75 UP! Is just a mapped 60
The original map has to deal with a wide variety of country conditions and fuel quality available so pick a safe sweet spot. There are probably other examples but those are 2 i know of.

Are you sure of that? I thought the Fiat one was considerably more than just a remapped 150, different turbo etc. no idea about the VW but I'd guess that would be similar.

 

[Clive G]

I hear plenty of good things about remapping but can anyone admit to a remap going wrong or know of anyone who has had it go wrong. I asked a reputable company about it and they said due to it being a Fiat with a Comfortmatic gearbox they wouldn't touch it.

Hi.
I had my 2019 Swift 694 with comformatic gearbox remapped 18 months ago. More power, more torque. About 28 to the gallon. Quantam remapping. I think they are a franchise. They come to you. Well worth it. Good luck!

 

[DucatoMan2]

Are you sure of that? I thought the Fiat one was considerably more than just a remapped 150, different turbo etc. no idea about the VW but I'd guess that would be similar.

Good (translatable) info on that here https://squadra-tuning.nl/chiptuning/campertuning/ducato/ducato-2-3-m-jet-16v-140-pk-9at-2/

 

[Gingernuts]

Good (translatable) info on that here https://squadra-tuning.nl/chiptuning/campertuning/ducato/ducato-2-3-m-jet-16v-140-pk-9at-2/

It’s in Dutch!

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[TheMachMan]

Celtic tuning did ours from 130 to 165bhp with Comfortmatic 3 years ago. Improved drivability considerably less gear dropping on inclines.

 

[Albacore]

I hear plenty of good things about remapping but can anyone admit to a remap going wrong or know of anyone who has had it go wrong. I asked a reputable company about it and they said due to it being a Fiat with a Comfortmatic gearbox they wouldn't touch it.

Gadget John on YouTube had issues as a result of a remap recently

 

[Wyvern]

Slightly off topic I know….i have a Toyota Hilux. I am a member of a Hilux forum. Lots of talk about remapping the 2.4 engine. Many dire warnings by people who had heard stuff.

So, after many years of claim and counter claim we decided to try and put some data around this and carried out a test and survey.

Might be something to consider here as the Fiat motors are so numerous.

For those interested in our results, 237 people responded to the specific engine who had had remaps. We also wanted to know the remap supplier and type (dyno, chip, injector).

Of those all had great results bar one. His was an injector type upgrade where wiring routing caused and issue. No MOT, warranty or service issues reported.

All reported much improved drive, on average 3-5 mpg improvement.

We took the most popular type upgrade and a standard car over a road course of 100miles in Cornwall. Identical vehicles through town, A30 dual carriageway and general driving. Both on the same track at the same time.

The mapped car had the most popular upgrade of 148 - 170 BHP and 400 to 450fpt. Both manual.

Results were interesting. MPG 3.4 improved over the base cars 27.4 for this route. We were surprised as the mapped car was faster up some of the long hills on the A30 in that it held its speed whilst the standard didn’t.

There were 27% less gear changes on the mapped vehicle. We were astounded by this change. Also gear changes, particularly in lower gears were much smoother. We put this down to earlier cut in of the turbo and a far more progressive feed in of power. This has virtually eradicated the car “dying” off turbo effect and the need to stir the box.

So, overall the mapped car was MUCH easier to live with. What we don’t know is the long term impacts on reliability. The highest mileage for this type of remap we had responded was 52k miles.

We can only speculate as to why Toyota did not give this time to the Toyota…maybe emissions, maybe marketing of higher power units, maybe longevity particularly in rougher parts of the world.

Overall, seemed a great option in this application and has virtually killed the unsubstantiated “I have a mate who knows a bloke who..” etc. etc.

 

[Mr Mrs H]

Have a look at
tdi-tuning.com
Racechip.co.uk

 

[Guigsy]

Chip tuning and remapping are not the same thing. With remapping, the ECU is fully aware of what is going on, it's just reprogrammed to behave differently. It gives complete flexibility about performance. It still obviously relies on someone knowing what they're doing.

Chip tune boxes intercept signals between the ECU and sensors or the signals to things like the injectors and alter the signals. The ECU does not know what's going on. This can give similar results to a remap. Although it's generally a bit more crude. But the risk is that the engine is pushed into an unusual situation that's unsafe, but the ECU isn't aware as it's either being lied to, or it doesn't have the control it assumes it does. Sometimes it can also mean your mpg isn't as good as the dash suggests because chip box is telling the injectors to squirt more fuel than the ECU commanded.

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