Queens Speech- New Police Powers.

[Emmit]

Hi All,

I appreciate this is from the Daily Mail and I further appreciate that I have put it in "Chat"

Before the vast number of members will be happy that, at last, something will be able to be done
about the wanton destruction that is caused by 'Travellers',we should all be aware, when the
legislation is passed of exactly what the powers there will be to control persons in 'mobile temporary
accommodation.

Travellers' caravans may be seized by police in law and order blitz

More than 1,000 traveller caravans are on unauthorised sites across England and Wales, according to official figures released earlier this year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jollyrodger]

Time will tell as they say.
It happens regularly nearby to where I live as soon as the fences are repaired then the next gathering arrive . The council put up portaloos for them and bin but still an epic clean up after they leave.

 

[TerryL]

This would seem to be intended to apply to "setting up" without permission/authorisation from the land owner, and making it a criminal rather than a civil offence.
In that case it shouldn't affect motorhomers because we always get permission to park up.
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Don't we?

 

[TheBig1]

FLTs don't seem keen on asking permission and this legislation will equally apply to them as well as the travelling community

 

[SpeedyDux]

There's a long way still to go.

Let's see what the legislation actually says after it becomes law. Next, expect the pro-Traveller pressure groups to start Judicial Review proceedings with the aim to declare the legislation unlawful. Confiscating someone's home is a biggie.

If the legislation gets past those hurdles, when the Police exercise their new statutory powers they may still face the same legal challenges as the Councils currently do, because they are subject to Human Rights Convention duties. For example, having to make an assessment of the needs of any vulnerable persons in the Traveller families etc. There is always someone who is ill or disabled or has needs that require suitable alternative provision, somewhere else they can get temporary accommodation, or other safeguarding, before they can be evicted from land. Would the Police be obliged to work with the Council to provide alternative authorised Traveller pitches? Would seizing their caravans be conditional on compensation? Lots of questions.

You can bet the left-wing luvvies like Vanessa Redgrave will jump on this bandwagon.

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[ChrisL]

I think it's important to realise that this kind of legislation works in Ireland and France so if we follow their model we shouldn't have too many problems with it. Councils no doubt will be required to have a place where travellers can stop but if those are full then they will have to move on to the next one.
It will be interesting to see how it's worded and if it gets watered down.

 

[Allanm]

Although this was published a few days before the election, it goes into a lot of detail around the proposed legislation
Make of it what you will but as I see it, it’s a typical reaction from the tory’s where they make something illegal if they can’t deal with it.
I would be happier seeing something that sets out how they are going to deal ( positively) with knife crime.
Two more people killed overnight!

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/da...against-gypsytravellers-ahead-of-uk-election/

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

I wouldn't think that the odd wild camper will have to worry so long as they are considerate.
This has to be for dealing with the mass gatherings of filthy scum that cause so many problems.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Legislation is one thing - we already have plenty of it.
Having the resources and the will to actually enforce it is quite another.

 

[Odd-no-more]

I doubt much will change, there is no will for real change, they won't even make squatting illegal, and that cost the owners a lot. There is so much "they" could do for us, but they never do.

Cynical Ex Gasman

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[ChrisL]

I doubt much will change, there is no will for real change, they won't even make squatting illegal, and that cost the owners a lot. There is so much "they" could do for us, but they never do.

Cynical Ex Gasman

Actually, squatting in residential properties is illegal, punishable by a £5000 fine or 6 months prison.

Squatting and the law

The law on squatting - what squatting is, squatters' rights, removing squatters, getting your property back from squatters and adverse possession. Includes information from the withdrawn EX332 and EX333 guidance.

www.gov.uk

 

[mitzimad]

I doubt much will change, there is no will for real change, they won't even make squatting illegal, and that cost the owners a lot. There is so much "they" could do for us, but they never do.

Cynical Ex Gasman

Squatting in residential properties was made illegal a while back to combat eastern European gangs

 

[mitzimad]

The problem with legislation is it gets used buy not as intended a local tradesman was recently fined for sandwich wrappers in his van under legislation that was brought in to stop fly tipping

 

[7735]

Unfortunately it will still be one law for the law abiding and one law for them. There was coverage on television a few weeks ago where travellers had moved on to I recall a car park. The police were called and eventually they all agreed to move except one Irish traveller who was so drunk that he ripped the window off his caravan and then crawled through the hole. He finally agreed to move and hooked up his caravan to his transit, although visibly drunk and violent the police stood by and let him drive away. What happened to the drink/drive laws.

spongy

 

[weejocky]

Although this was published a few days before the election, it goes into a lot of detail around the proposed legislation
Make of it what you will but as I see it, it’s a typical reaction from the tory’s where they make something illegal if they can’t deal with it.

Tories accused of ‘fanning flames of racism’ against Gypsy/Travellers ahead of UK election

Make of it what you will but as I see it, it’s a typical reaction of scummy lefty apologists who want to call everyone racist.

Hating those filthy traveller scumbags who leave devestation behind them at every stop is not racist. Scumbags arent a race so how can it be

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[Chris51]

It worked in Ireland that why they are here!

 

[Allanm]

Tories accused of ‘fanning flames of racism’ against Gypsy/Travellers ahead of UK election

Make of it what you will but as I see it, it’s a typical reaction of scummy lefty apologists who want to call everyone racist.

Hating those filthy traveller scumbags who leave devestation behind them at every stop is not racist. Scumbags arent a race so how can it be

Clearing up after a small section of society is one thing ( and I agree with your sentiments here)
Inferring all travellers, Gypsies Romanies or Travellers are responsible for leaving this mess as the Tories are clearly trying to do here, is totally different.
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity is racism. Plain and simple.

 

[TerryL]

Gypsies & Romanies maybe, but are "travellers" of a different race or ethnicity?

 

[Odd-no-more]

Squatting in residential properties was made illegal a while back to combat eastern European gangs

But not commercial property

 

[DaveandJen]

If the travellers followed the code - only leave footprints - then in most cases the locals would live with it but unfortunately that does not happen in most cases and many have no respect for the site so the local council / land owner has to clear up the mess after they moved on. It’s easy to understand why the tax paying public are becoming increasingly hostile regarding this problem

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[SpeedyDux]

Clearing up after a small section of society is one thing ( and I agree with your sentiments here)
Inferring all travellers, Gypsies Romanies or Travellers are responsible for leaving this mess as the Tories are clearly trying to do here, is totally different.
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity is racism. Plain and simple.

Just because Travellers are the most likely group to face use of these additional powers doesn't mean it is racist although the usual suspects will claim that it is. Nobody should be above the law because they belong to a group with a "protected characteristic".

This proposed law will apply to all of us. That isn't discrimination.

 

[romany]

It worked in Ireland that why they are here!

Interesting as a FLT did three weeks in Ireland absolutely no problems with police or anyone else maybe its because I am careful where I park, ask if I can stay if I see anyone in authority, never stay more than two nights and most important as far as I'm concerned leave no trace of being there.

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting as a FLT did three weeks in Ireland absolutely no problems with police or anyone else maybe its because I am careful where I park, ask if I can stay if I see anyone in authority, never stay more than two nights and most important as far as I'm concerned leave no trace of being there.

When we went to Ireland we were told by the locals the no overnight parking signs were for the travellers we were welcome to stay.

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

There's a long way still to go.

Let's see what the legislation actually says after it becomes law. Next, expect the pro-Traveller pressure groups to start Judicial Review proceedings with the aim to declare the legislation unlawful. Confiscating someone's home is a biggie.

If the legislation gets past those hurdles, when the Police exercise their new statutory powers they may still face the same legal challenges as the Councils currently do, because they are subject to Human Rights Convention duties. For example, having to make an assessment of the needs of any vulnerable persons in the Traveller families etc. There is always someone who is ill or disabled or has needs that require suitable alternative provision, somewhere else they can get temporary accommodation, or other safeguarding, before they can be evicted from land. Would the Police be obliged to work with the Council to provide alternative authorised Traveller pitches? Would seizing their caravans be conditional on compensation? Lots of questions.

You can bet the left-wing luvvies like Vanessa Redgrave will jump on this bandwagon.

Agreed. The Daily Fail is good at stirring things up.
Illegal encampments are currently a matter for the land owner, under planning legislation. Planning enforcement officers can prosecute the land owner if they allow the encampment. So private land owners simply tell them to leave, with the threat of forcible eviction if they don’t leave within a short time frame - send the bailiffs in. Public land such as municipal parks etc, is down to the local authority to do the same; but they have to conduct a risk assessment of any vulnerability within the illegal camping community - takes weeks! Councils like to hide behind the police’ coat tails, but it is firmly down to them when your park is messed up because they take too long over the risk assessments.
This is why private landowners don’t have a problem and councils do. Criminalising them will simply transfer the “problem” to the police, who will still have to do the risk assessment because they are a public authority.
But if the councils are cash strapped and the police have +20,000 new officers, they won’t need to hire bailiffs....the police will get the blame and the politicians in the council will be off the hook and say it’s not their fault!
There are also many “travellers” who have bought some land or a field and are now domiciled in their caravan on their own land. They’re still breaching planning law but councils are reluctant to take enforcement action in case they’re accused of committing any “isms”.
Local authorities are obliged to provide sites for travellers, but many do not, or if they do, provide nowhere near enough pitches. And some of these are handed to the traveller community to manage themselves which leads to access issues for travellers in communities or families not recognised by the families running the sites.

 

[romany]

When we went to Ireland we were told by the locals the no overnight parking signs were for the travellers we were welcome to stay.

Yes Lenny a couple of places told us more or less the same

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[Silver-Fox]

And some of these are handed to the traveller community to manage themselves which leads to access issues for travellers in communities or families not recognised by the families running the sites

So they are being racist, ohh the irony.

 

[romany]

So they are being racist, ohh the irony.

How can they be racist Romanies are a recognised race travelers are not

 

[PeteH]

How can they be racist Romanies are a recognised race travelers are not

So, what we have is? Tribalism?.

 

[PeteH]

The last lot of "Romanies". New(ish) vans, and Tow vehicles. "occupied" the riveside car park in York. It took the council over a week to move them. All the Reg; Numbers where on Ro (EU) plates. So IMV, they are no more than "foreign" FLT`s. We used to get the "Irish Tinkers" on a field near us for several weeks prior to the Cheltenham Festival. and every year the council spent days clearing up after them. The best one I heard, was the Farmer, who finding a group on his field early one morning, got his slurry tanker and sprayed the field around the trespassers. He then called the police, who stood by whilst he spoke to the "leader". They packed up and left. What he had apparently said was the the rest of the field would be slurry`d later that morning. And it might be in their best interests not to be there!.

 

[Silver-Fox]

How can they be racist Romanies are a recognised race travelers are not

Yet travellers shout racist at every opportunity especially when they are parked up where they arnt supposed to be.

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