Pre-Purchase Question

[mylastidea]

Newbee here and loving the site. Have done "introduced yourself" post and read loads. Looking for any advice on purchase. We have been doing a lot of research, attended the Scottish show earlier in year and a couple of dealer visits to thoughts are getting focused but really needing the amazing wisdom from you guys to avoid (very) expensive mistakes. We have rented before so good some experience driving on small roads in Scotland and Wales.

We have pretty much decided on Hymer Grand Canyon 4x4 OR ML-T. New or very slightly used ( the latter being hard to find) but in no rush so a factory order does not scare us. Will be travelling to visit one of the big Hymer dealers in next few weeks to discuss further.

So two questions - 1. Anyone owning one of the above would love to hear thoughts / regrets what they might do differently if buying again.
2. Options. Have some ideas on must have and nice to have. Would love to hear from you all thoughts.
Must have : 3 berth / Fixed bed / <7m / Mercedes or other german made / 4x4 / Payload > 600kg / Awning / >300 aH Lithium power / Solar / auto / up-plating

Nice to have: habitation aircon / leather /

Dont want : Lifting roof / towbar / white van

Didnt know i wanted but really now want :- Self Levelling

All thoughts and advice appreciated

 

[StillGoing]

Diesel heating/hot water if you’re doing a lot of travelling. Compressor fridge.

The dealers seem to have loads of stock and are offering big discounts (not sure if that’s true on your model) so haggle.

 

[mylastidea]

Diesel heating/hot water if you’re doing a lot of travelling. Compressor fridge.

The dealers seem to have loads of stock and are offering big discounts (not sure if that’s true on your model) so haggle.

Intresting as I am getting the feeling sofar its still a sellers market. Example >> looking at one with a good spec, 2023 with 3600 miles on clock. Ticket price is 4% ABOVE the new list (with same options ). Guessing that is the haggle room but really I would be wanting at least 10% off new for this !!!

 

[The Wino]

Newbee here and loving the site. Have done "introduced yourself" post and read loads. Looking for any advice on purchase. We have been doing a lot of research, attended the Scottish show earlier in year and a couple of dealer visits to thoughts are getting focused but really needing the amazing wisdom from you guys to avoid (very) expensive mistakes. We have rented before so good some experience driving on small roads in Scotland and Wales.

We have pretty much decided on Hymer Grand Canyon 4x4 OR ML-T. New or very slightly used ( the latter being hard to find) but in no rush so a factory order does not scare us. Will be travelling to visit one of the big Hymer dealers in next few weeks to discuss further.

So two questions - 1. Anyone owning one of the above would love to hear thoughts / regrets what they might do differently if buying again.
2. Options. Have some ideas on must have and nice to have. Would love to hear from you all thoughts.
Must have : 3 berth / Fixed bed / <7m / Mercedes or other german made / 4x4 / Payload > 600kg / Awning / >300 aH Lithium power / Solar / auto / up-plating

Nice to have: habitation aircon / leather /

Dont want : Lifting roof / towbar / white van

Didnt know i wanted but really now want :- Self Levelling

All thoughts and advice appreciated

Have you actually stayed in a motorhome? If not you could consider renting to try one out it's going to be a very expensive experience if you buy new try a couple of times and don't like it.

 

[Landy Andy]

CaptainPaul maybe able to offer some advice as he has recently bought similar

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[Landy Andy]

Have you actually stayed in a motorhome? If not you could consider renting to try one out it's going to be a very expensive experience if you buy new try a couple of times and don't like it.

We have rented before so good some experience driving on small roads in Scotland and Wales.

 

[vzac]

Interested in how you came to the above decision. How do you intend to use the van ? That's the most importance question, then what do you need to achieve that. Don't get carried away on nice looking vans. If it's white you can always wrap it, could be cheaper to add all the extra gadgets after purchase as it could well cost less overall.

 

[BrochMike]

Interesting set of 'must-haves', some of which significantly add to cost (Merc/4x4).

Do these come from your experience renting in Scotland/Wales, or plans to go 'off-the-beaten-track' in future?

 

[StillGoing]

Intresting as I am getting the feeling sofar its still a sellers market. Example >> looking at one with a good spec, 2023 with 3600 miles on clock. Ticket price is 4% ABOVE the new list (with same options ). Guessing that is the haggle room but really I would be wanting at least 10% off new for this !!!

I was at Lowdhams a couple of weeks ago. The compounds, showroom and car parks were full of new, unsold caravans and motorhomes. There were money off offers on many screens.

I also get sent marketing information from other dealers - all offering discounts off list prices.

 

[Brains]

Newbee here and loving the site. Have done "introduced yourself" post and read loads. Looking for any advice on purchase. We have been doing a lot of research, attended the Scottish show earlier in year and a couple of dealer visits to thoughts are getting focused but really needing the amazing wisdom from you guys to avoid (very) expensive mistakes. We have rented before so good some experience driving on small roads in Scotland and Wales.

We have pretty much decided on Hymer Grand Canyon 4x4 OR ML-T. New or very slightly used ( the latter being hard to find) but in no rush so a factory order does not scare us. Will be travelling to visit one of the big Hymer dealers in next few weeks to discuss further.

So two questions - 1. Anyone owning one of the above would love to hear thoughts / regrets what they might do differently if buying again.
2. Options. Have some ideas on must have and nice to have. Would love to hear from you all thoughts.
Must have : 3 berth / Fixed bed / <7m / Mercedes or other german made / 4x4 / Payload > 600kg / Awning / >300 aH Lithium power / Solar / auto / up-plating

Nice to have: habitation aircon / leather /

Dont want : Lifting roof / towbar / white van

Didnt know i wanted but really now want :- Self Levelling

All thoughts and advice appreciated

Be aware the Hymer ML-T's are NOT 3 berth.

The 'third berth' is suitable for a large dog or a small child, it's a pain to make up.
It might do as a reserve bed for a smaller adult for one night, but certainly not for a two week holiday.

The rear beds however, if set up as a double is massive, you could quite reasonably have 3 adults in the space,
(I've slept in 3 person hike tents on multi-week mountain expeditions in a far smaller space!)

A towbar is useful, for being towed out, or for towing others out.
It is also the best place to put a bike rack
(The standard rear wall mounted bike rack means you have to carry a ladder, and be able to lift a bike over your head)

Self levelling, Leather seats, Aircon - I'd have it if it was free, but not worth paying serious money for.

Automatic ? Its the one item I'd would get rid of personally. Especially if 4x4, where manual is far better.

You have not mentioned refillable gas, which I'd suggest is essential (Gaslow or others)

Decent quality Alarm/Tracker/Immobiliser system
NOT fitted by the dealer or manufacturer, you can get twice as good for half the price, (VanBitz and WattGuardz)

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[IRHP]

Have you actually stayed in a motorhome? If not you could consider renting to try one out it's going to be a very expensive experience if you buy new try a couple of times and don't like it.

Pretty sure if they rented one they stayed in it.

 

[mylastidea]

Interesting set of 'must-haves', some of which significantly add to cost (Merc/4x4).

Do these come from your experience renting in Scotland/Wales, or plans to go 'off-the-beaten-track' in future?

Thanks BrochMike & vzac ...good questions. Thought about this carefully and definitely will go further a field (Europe). Think we will be 80% on sites and not thinking too much "off road" BUT the 4x4 comes for desire to have flexibiity to drive less than perfect tracks / slippy grass without the need to worry about getting stuck. Nearly got stuck more than once during my limited experience in UK. Choosing Merc simply because always had german cars and appreciate the "quality" these bring. Might not be a real "must have" and realise this comes at a cost.

Adding options later is somthing Im thinking about. For example 4x 90aH Li battery option is over 3k from Hymer. So adding 3x 100aH (for example) aftermarket would be significant saving. Any downside to doing this ?

 

[mylastidea]

Be aware the Hymer ML-T's are NOT 3 berth.

The 'third berth' is suitable for a large dog or a small child, it's a pain to make up.
It might do as a reserve bed for a smaller adult for one night, but certainly not for a two week holiday.

The rear beds however, if set up as a double is massive, you could quite reasonably have 3 adults in the space,
(I've slept in 3 person hike tents on multi-week mountain expeditions in a far smaller space!)

A towbar is useful, for being towed out, or for towing others out.
It is also the best place to put a bike rack
(The standard rear wall mounted bike rack means you have to carry a ladder, and be able to lift a bike over your head)

Self levelling, Leather seats, Aircon - I'd have it if it was free, but not worth paying serious money for.

Automatic ? Its the one item I'd would get rid of personally. Especially if 4x4, where manual is far better.

You have not mentioned refillable gas, which I'd suggest is essential (Gaslow or others)

Decent quality Alarm/Tracker/Immobiliser system
NOT fitted by the dealer or manufacturer, you can get twice as good for half the price, (VanBitz and WattGuardz)

Great poings and got me thinking. Understand the 3rd berth on the ML-T but we planned this because for my daughter who likley will only stay for one or two nights occassionally.
Agree on cost for Leather / aircon but convinced myself self leveling has so many advantages that it might be the one thing worth paying for. Intrested to hear from others on this.
Towbar now move to the must have
Alarm - yes for sure but was thinking this would be first thing i do POST purchase.

So, would you buy another Hymer now you are an owner ? Thanks again

 

[Bessy765]

We have been motor homing for over 50 years have got stuck twice. 4 x 4 has extra running cost/ purchase costs. Tends to be higher off the ground for getting in and out all right whilst young, maybe not so when you are our age, (76). We have 560 Lithium, 700 solar and a Victron 12/2000/80-30 inverter charger with a Dometic Freshjet 2200. We can run this for several hours a day if needed but the trick is not to try and turn the van into a fridge. Though later A/C use less power.

 

[Abgs]

I’ll scribble down some thoughts later but also have a look at my thread here. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/modding-the-hymer-ml-t-580-4x4.310215/

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[CaptainPaul]

Saw my name mentioned by Landy Andy and thought I'd have a quick look in.... Yes I've just purchased a 2025 Hymer ML-T 570 4x4 last month on the Merc chassis and although I wouldn't be as qualified as some of the guys on here who have owned them for a while longer than me but so far I've found the build quality to be absolutely superb, they are like a tank, very solid quality furniture and components, Mercedes, well that speaks for itself, top quality equipment and driving experience, its a sublime van to drive although I have to agree 100% with Brains as regards the automatic gearbox, I hate them in any vehicle but in a 4x4 where you could be potentially heading properly off road a bit it's a complete waste of time, if they made this van in manual it would be a fantastic van! The only thing saving it is that it has the paddle shifters to take of the automatic nonsense out of the equation, I was away on a few days fishing trip last week & the weekend and the van is great to drive and super comfortable to stay in, I have the leather interior & heated seats etc which is nice but as others have said not a necessity, gas low system and a tow bar I also put alloy wheels on as I wasn't dying about the steel wheels although there's nothing wrong with them, air con good to have but again not sure if it's a necessity, I'll know all this better after I finish my next Morocco trip (we go for 3 months every winter)
To sum up if your in the market for one then go for it, if you are buying straight I've found them much more agreeable to fitting your extras free as opposed to money off, I think they can work it better through the books that way, I paid their asking price but got over 12k worth of extras fitted to it in the price, so if they're not budging on price think about your optional extras, ie gas low, aircon etc that's what I did
Anyway good luck hope you find the van your after, we've no regrets about buying ours (just have to keep trying to love the auto box!)

 

[KASPAR]

Thanks BrochMike & vzac ...good questions. Thought about this carefully and definitely will go further a field (Europe). Think we will be 80% on sites and not thinking too much "off road" BUT the 4x4 comes for desire to have flexibiity to drive less than perfect tracks / slippy grass without the need to worry about getting stuck. Nearly got stuck more than once during my limited experience in UK. Choosing Merc simply because always had german cars and appreciate the "quality" these bring. Might not be a real "must have" and realise this comes at a cost.

Adding options later is somthing Im thinking about. For example 4x 90aH Li battery option is over 3k from Hymer. So adding 3x 100aH (for example) aftermarket would be significant saving. Any downside to doing this ?

Great poings and got me thinking. Understand the 3rd berth on the ML-T but we planned this because for my daughter who likley will only stay for one or two nights occassionally.
Agree on cost for Leather / aircon but convinced myself self leveling has so many advantages that it might be the one thing worth paying for. Intrested to hear from others on this.
Towbar now move to the must have
Alarm - yes for sure but was thinking this would be first thing i do POST purchase.

So, would you buy another Hymer now you are an owner ? Thanks again

Realistically how often are you going to need 4x4? With all season / cross climate tyres you'll be fine on sites and tracks. All season or cross climate tyres will see you out of most scenarios you are likely to encounter. Our daily is a Merc 4x4 SUV with the 4matic system; but more usefully the air suspension to lift it when on tracks, or snow. Only used the 4wheel drive on one day, in deep fresh snow; in 70k miles usage. 2wd is perfectly capable, particularly with the 9g auto box and other systems.

Why 3 batteries? We've just had a 300aH Fogstar lithium installed. Smaller footprint than the 2 AGM it replaced, leaving room if we ever need more in the future. OffGridPower solutions. Others suppliers are available who like OGP are far more capable than a dealer, and lower cost.

Self levelling as in suspension, or levellers on pitch? We have the M-Level levellers on our Merc Tractor Head / AlKo chassis MH which is what the ML-T non 4x4/rufty tufty Crossover is. Very good price using available discount through suppliers on MHF ie VanBitz.

 

[Brains]

So, would you buy another Hymer now you are an owner ? Thanks again

Yes.

Although I notice the quality is not what it was, my 2018 built is far better than a friends 2023 built.
(Which maybe a Pandemic 'knock them out as fast as you can' model, also Hymer got bought out by Thor around that time)

I daresay someone with a 20-30 year old Hymer will say the quality on my one is not up to their level!

 

[Saucer]

If you are considering buying new (or nearly new) and a Fiat based van, you should note that the optional extended 5 year warranty is only available in the 2 weeks following registration. This seems to be strictly adhered to. Of course you can still see vans from 2024 that are unregistered and would be eligible

 

[Brains]

Self levelling.
Personally I'd not bother.

We carry a couple of Milenco 3 step plastic ramps.
They get used a few times in a season, but I find most pitches are fairly level.
I've also got 2 x 5t jacks. Never been out of the packet.

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[mylastidea]

Realistically how often are you going to need 4x4? With all season / cross climate tyres you'll be fine on sites and tracks. All season or cross climate tyres will see you out of most scenarios you are likely to encounter. Our daily is a Merc 4x4 SUV with the 4matic system; but more usefully the air suspension to lift it when on tracks, or snow. Only used the 4wheel drive on one day, in deep fresh snow; in 70k miles usage. 2wd is perfectly capable, particularly with the 9g auto box and other systems.

Why 3 batteries? We've just had a 300aH Fogstar lithium installed. Smaller footprint than the 2 AGM it replaced, leaving room if we ever need more in the future. OffGridPower solutions. Others suppliers are available who like OGP are far more capable than a dealer, and lower cost.

Self levelling as in suspension, or levellers on pitch? We have the M-Level levellers on our Merc Tractor Head / AlKo chassis MH which is what the ML-T non 4x4/rufty tufty Crossover is. Very good price using available discount through suppliers on MHF ie VanBitz.

All good points. Got me really thinking about 4x4 now. Weight and cost against it. Batteries I was just doing a straight comparision with what Hymer optionally supply. I am I right in saying if Hymer can option up to 260aH, I can go ealily up to this aftermarket ? Apart from cost and space, what is the limitation without needing to think about installing other things at same time ?

 

[mylastidea]

Saw my name mentioned by Landy Andy and thought I'd have a quick look in.... Yes I've just purchased a 2025 Hymer ML-T 570 4x4 last month on the Merc chassis and although I wouldn't be as qualified as some of the guys on here who have owned them for a while longer than me but so far I've found the build quality to be absolutely superb, they are like a tank, very solid quality furniture and components, Mercedes, well that speaks for itself, top quality equipment and driving experience, its a sublime van to drive although I have to agree 100% with Brains as regards the automatic gearbox, I hate them in any vehicle but in a 4x4 where you could be potentially heading properly off road a bit it's a complete waste of time, if they made this van in manual it would be a fantastic van! The only thing saving it is that it has the paddle shifters to take of the automatic nonsense out of the equation, I was away on a few days fishing trip last week & the weekend and the van is great to drive and super comfortable to stay in, I have the leather interior & heated seats etc which is nice but as others have said not a necessity, gas low system and a tow bar I also put alloy wheels on as I wasn't dying about the steel wheels although there's nothing wrong with them, air con good to have but again not sure if it's a necessity, I'll know all this better after I finish my next Morocco trip (we go for 3 months every winter)
To sum up if your in the market for one then go for it, if you are buying straight I've found them much more agreeable to fitting your extras free as opposed to money off, I think they can work it better through the books that way, I paid their asking price but got over 12k worth of extras fitted to it in the price, so if they're not budging on price think about your optional extras, ie gas low, aircon etc that's what I did
Anyway good luck hope you find the van your after, we've no regrets about buying ours (just have to keep trying to love the auto box!)

Thanks for that and all good to hear, especially the negotiation on the extras!!!

 

[mylastidea]

I’ll scribble down some thoughts later but also have a look at my thread here. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/modding-the-hymer-ml-t-580-4x4.310215/

Very good thread....thinking about upgrades bebore i even buy the thing ...lol

 

[Abgs]

I’m 11,500 miles and eight months into the ownership of my MLt580.

I bought off the forecourt so I didn’t spec it, but it was near enough to my requirements.

I think the stumbling block for you is the three berths, It’s possible to get a make up bed option in the seating area but it’s really small so you would need to check this. Mine doesn’t have this option.

Payload on mine is around 500Kg though I do have a levelling system fitted which took maybe 60kg.

If you are looking at Hymer they all come with some form of the Smart Battery System, mine has the full pack so 320A of battery, plus an inverter. I have no solar as yet but it’s booked in for a 540Watt system next month.

Mine uses about 90 - 100A per day so the battery is good for about three days use. I have diesel heat and hot water and a compressor ( battery) fridge so very minimal gas usage. I've used 30% of a small 5Kg bottle in about 70 nights. I do a have an electric kettle, toaster and airfryer though.

I don’t have aircon but do a MaxxFan - currently testing it in Spain.. seems good at the moment. Weighs a lot less than an aircon unit. As I rarely use campsites I think Ive only plugged the MLt in once when away from home. Habitation aircon generally requires you to plugged into the mains. I had it on my last van but didn’t use it much because of this.

If I do find I need it I could fit it in place of the Maxxfan with an inverter to drive it from the battery, but I’ll have to see how the solar performs before I do that.

Leather is good, easy to clean but can be a bit harsh to sit on after a while. I wouldn’t have necessarily specced it but I have it.

Lifting roof - that’s an option on the Grand Canyon 700 (7m) or 600 (6m). I had 2WD Grand Canyon 600 for about 14 months and 20,000 miles. Great van to drive and I reckon would go most places with the right tyres but it needs more lift for ground clearance. The 4WD version will do it but you will only get the third bed if you go for the lifting roof.

The 4WD Yukon Frankia Vans might be worth look - I felt that the interior build quality was better than the GCS. And more living room in the 7m due to the layout.

Build quality … I’d give the MLt about 8.5/10. It looks very nice but let’s itself down with some corner cutting, e.g. the cupboard hinges are substantial but the tiny screw that hold them to chipboard work loose very quickly.

My 2022 Grand Canyon had sod all insulation in it - thou the pop top helped insulate the ceiling.

If Left Hand Drive is an option, vans are way cheaper in Germany and there is fair bit of stock = deals to be done. LHD works for me - only about 2000 miles have been driven in the UK so far - mostly to and from the ferry ports.

Would I buy again ... yes, I would buy a Mercedes based AWD 7m van, not necessarily a Hymer. If Carthago made this van with the their high quality interior build that would be the sweet spot for me. That said, I paid a good chuck under UK list price for the MLt so I doubt I'd I could match it value wise.

They don't blend in in a car park of white motorhomes ...

They are not really off-road weapons but you can get to places you’d not otherwise. Ground clearance is the big bonus.

Today's lunch spot, about two miles off the main road along some forestry tracks in Northern Spain. A few steep bits and few very muddy sections but the MLt just ploughed on through ….

 

[mylastidea]

Thanks very much for the detailed summary. I have been thinking about Germany. Only thing putting me off a bit is warrenty work as i realise this can be done in any Hymer dealer but imagine they are a bit sticky if not purchased from them. Will look at the Yukon. Thanks again

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[Abgs]

“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.”​

― John Muir