Overloaded

[sfrain145]

Hi all I have a question as it seems very vague and the people I have spoken to don’t seem too helpful
I went on another forum and they were talking about fiat, Peugeot and Citroen vans failing MOT due to them having rear suspension issues with flat rear springs or bump stops bottoming out etc.

So I went on the autotrail website and they have a weight calculator and it seems once you spec your van and add you passengers and belongings you have no weight left for your dog or even to fit a towbar etc.

The response I got was get the rear springs upgraded to you can increase the GVW my question is surely you shouldn’t need to.

They are in a way forcing us to break the law and sometimes without knowing

Below is a copy of the config I am on about.

Worth discussing but I have ordered an expedition 68 with a pop top
I also asked about fitting a lithium battery and again not a straight answer so looks like all their gear will be removed to make way for. Some less heavy functional stuff

Maybe that’s why they don’t fit a radio so they can save weight

 

[L' Hobo]

Hi, just a quick question please, who fitted your Dunlop rear air? We have it on ours but with a leak and the fitting company have badly let us down so looking for someone to repair it. Shame as it works brilliantly on our Chausson with much better ride/roll and rerated to 4400kg

If you're handy with the spanners and have access to a pit, it's an easy DIY job.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you think it's bad for motorhomes, its 10 times worse for tuggers. We had our last caravan weighed when it was brand new and empty with just a motor mover fitted and battery / gas bottles in. Nothing else at all and it was 15kg over the MTPLM.

Most tuggers have never heard the word payload.
I don't know if the still do it but on the A2 & other roads to Dover they used set up weight checks and pull caravans during the summer months.

 

[L' Hobo]

If you think it's bad for motorhomes, its 10 times worse for tuggers. We had our last caravan weighed when it was brand new and empty with just a motor mover fitted and battery / gas bottles in. Nothing else at all and it was 15kg over the MTPLM. We had our Autocruise Starspirit weighed last week as I've added a bike rack, 280Ah lithium, 175W solar, B2B and inverter. It was loaded for a weekend away with all essentials - wine / 15 pack Heineken etc and came in at 3180. It's plated at 3400 so we're well chuffed with that.

I thought as long as it didn't weight more than 70 percent of the tow vehicle it was okay.
Every days a school day!

 

[Captain Birdseye]

I thought as long as it didn't weight more than 70 percent of the tow vehicle it was okay.
Every days a school day!

Depends on the towing vehicle:s gross train weight and towball vertical weight limit, which should be 7% of the caravan's gross weight when loaded.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sfrain145]

Is this your first Mh? If so can I recommend you don't buy new because you re very unlikely to get it right first time and its an expensive game changing. Better to buy what you think you want but used and see if it actually works for you.

Hi there no I’ve built a few some transporters and a crafter also had an American fifth wheeler and we used SV Tech to up plate the truck. And updated the crafter with air suspension etc
have a new crafter on order to build but we seen the Expedition 68 and for the money it wasn’t bad but looking at things like the control box for the electrics the lack of radio and the weight issue it begs the question how do they get away with Quality control in Europe it simply wouldn’t wash. I lived in Germany for 12 years and had lots of Hobby and Adria vehicles

 

[Orion]

Hi, just a quick question please, who fitted your Dunlop rear air? We have it on ours but with a leak and the fitting company have badly let us down so looking for someone to repair it. Shame as it works brilliantly on our Chausson with much better ride/roll and rerated to 4400kg

I fitted it myself and it would have been very straightforward if I wasn’t the guinea pig for their first installation on an electric parking brake van!

Posted Here

That involved some trial fitting of a couple of components, including the ARB drop links, due to the different geometry in that area.

Unless it’s a major leak from the airbags themselves - which will result in an immediate pressure loss - it should be relatively easy to trace by putting the maximum pressure into the system and then spray all the jointing fittings with leak detection fluid (LDF). Then either tighten the offending item or remake it by squarely cutting off a minimal amount of the pipe and reseating it.

 

[Orion]

If you're handy with the spanners and have access to a pit, it's an easy DIY job.

Axle stands work as well.

 

[Steve I]

I fitted it myself and it would have been very straightforward if I wasn’t the guinea pig for their first installation on an electric parking brake van!

That involved some trial fitting of a couple of components, including the ARB drop links, due to the different geometry in that area.

Unless it’s a major leak from the airbags themselves - which will result in an immediate pressure loss - it should be relatively easy to trace by putting the maximum pressure into the system and then spray all the jointing fittings with leak detection fluid (LDF). Then either tighten the offending item or remake it by squarely cutting off a minimal amount of the pipe and reseating it.

Brilliant and thank you, I’m a bit of a technophobe so never heard of leak detection fluid but I’ll order some today and try it when back, it’s a minor leak so usable but can’t park it at the depot as need to inflate every day to stop it going empty. Fitters “warranty” means I now need to drive it a 250+ mile round trip to get it fixed otherwise so very much appreciated

 

[Steve I]

Axle stands work as well.

Yes, it’s got decent clearance at the rear on ramps/stands, it’s just if it’s in the pipes going through the body into the cab for the gauges/ inflation control that I could have the issues

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Orion]

Brilliant and thank you, I’m a bit of a technophobe so never heard of leak detection fluid but I’ll order some today and try it when back, it’s a minor leak so usable but can’t park it at the depot as need to inflate every day to stop it going empty. Fitters “warranty” means I now need to drive it a 250+ mile round trip to get it fixed otherwise so very much appreciated

The only fittings that might present a problem getting to are the connections to the airbags themselves. These are on the lower ends and shrouded by the bottom plates that are located to the springs - the tubes are fitted to them before bolting it all up - you should be able to observe any LDF bubbles though, maybe with a torch and mirror.

Fingers crossed that the leak is elsewhere and easy to access.

 

[prenteye]

I was told it is compulsory to drive a 3500kg rated moho at around 3650kg or so. Rides much better with a bit of weight in it.

Did a charity aid run to Croatia many years ago in two 7.5t parcel trucks with tail lifts.At the port weigh scale came in at over 11t each. The tail lifts would ground out on autobahn junctions.

Got a 25 euro ticket coming home through Austria (empty) for not having a correct sticker on the back.

Seriously though it is a pain to have mohos built and plated at 3500kg when there is little chance of staying within that weight.

On which note have many people done their own replating paperwork?

 

[poppycamper]

Depends on the towing vehicle:s gross train weight and towball vertical weight limit, which should be 7% of the caravan's gross weight when loaded.

Yes correct as long as the caravan does not exceed the caravan manufactures listed max weight.
If memory serves our last caravan, twin axle Compass Rallye had a max weight of 1900kgs.
So same as moho.

 

[Orion]

And

Most tuggers have never heard the word payload.
I don't know if the still do it but on the A2 & other roads to Dover they used set up weight checks and pull caravans during the summer months.

Starts happening in earnest around this time of year down here near J27 of the M5. With the usual increase in destroyed ‘vans and contents strewn along the verges of the motorway, the adjacent DoT inspection and weigh station on the popular A361 route into mid and north Devon sees a commensurate increase in escorted ‘customers’.

 

[sfrain145]

Here is some food for thought
in the USA they have a Ram Pro master 2500 pretty much the same chassis as our fiat ducato Maxi and they come with a generator fitted air con on the roof and a towbar that can carry a small motorbike. How on earth ??

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Threeracers]

Most tuggers have never heard the word payload.
I don't know if the still do it but on the A2 & other roads to Dover they used set up weight checks and pull caravans during the summer months.

There is a weigh bridge next to the A2 at Boughton and they pick off their targets at the Brenley Corner roundabout. Not sure if they run full time but I have a regular pitstop on a farm in Boughton, currently based here for a couple of days, and when I came in to the village they were operating.

M

 

[sfrain145]

There is a weigh bridge next to the A2 at Boughton and they pick off their targets at the Brenley Corner roundabout. Not sure if they run full time but I have a regular pitstop on a farm in Boughton, currently based here for a couple of days, and when I came in to the village they were operating.

M

Bedford MJ thought I was seeing things then

 

[Steve I]

The only fittings that might present a problem getting to are the connections to the airbags themselves. These are on the lower ends and shrouded by the bottom plates that are located to the springs - the tubes are fitted to them before bolting it all up - you should be able to observe any LDF bubbles though, maybe with a torch and mirror.

Fingers crossed that the leak is elsewhere and easy to access.

Again, many thanks, this is so helpful, I’ve ordered leak checker too

 

[DDJC]

On which note have many people done their own replating paperwork?

Got a query out with the DVSA on that very topic. Seems more irritating than expensive.

 

[Steve I]

Didn’t realise you could do your own tbh, unless it’s meant as just registering the upgrade with DVLA which wasn’t hard at all. Or is the question about actually doing the upgrade calcs as I’m fairly sure that has to be done by an approved engineer with supporting paperwork showing the individual axle and overall approved weight for whatever you’ve had done (ours was rear air suspension for example)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DDJC]

I am guessing that thousands of MHs and caravans run over their plated weight.
I am very critical of motorhome dealers. Most of them are happy to sell someone a motorhome that once you add two people and a piar of socks, they are overwight.

Too sacred to put mine on a weighbridge. However, apart from the legality (insurance and accident), I am not concerned from a safety point of view, given that if I pay someone a few hundred quid, they can increase my MGW without any physical adaptations. So my logic says I am safe up to that weight.

We bought new with a manufacturer declared payload of 600kg. Added towbar, aircon, single Gaslow, comfortmatic box, and a spare wheel. Add four people and kit for a trip and I am sure that takes us over.
So we got a 500kg trailer. I am happier now as the trailer adds about 350 to our payload.

Longer term, we are going to go up to 3850 kilos. I now have VB air suspension on the rear axle and next time for new boots, am going to 225s with Load Index of112 S/ 114 N

I would do it tomorrow, but Mrs DDJC has a post 1997 licence, so either she does the test or the government see sense and change the licence categories back to pre 1997 (the consultation on that is concluded and looks favourable)

 

[DDJC]

Didn’t realise you could do your own tbh, unless it’s meant as just registering the upgrade with DVLA which wasn’t hard at all. Or is the question about actually doing the upgrade calcs as I’m fairly sure that has to be done by an approved engineer with supporting paperwork showing the individual axle and overall approved weight for whatever you’ve had done (ours was rear air suspension for example)

You have to take your bus to an inspection location apparently. It is probably easier to use SVTech or Van Weight Engineering.

 

[DDJC]

Worth noting that the Fiat Ducato light chassis leaves their factory with a MTPLM of 3650kg. Then the motorhome factory can either leave it at 3650 or downrate it to 3500. You may find that the original Fiat plate says 3650 (mine does).

The total MGW could be up-plated to 3700kg without any modifications. With rear axle air assisted suspension fitted, the plate weight could increase to a total of 3850kg, but without any increase in axle weight. To get axle weight increase depends on getting tyres with with a higher load index. I am wondering 3850 is the absolute maximum, given that the original plate weight was 3650, and was downplated.

Incidentally, has anyone ever fitted van-type tyres that have a load index of more than 112?

 

[Orion]

Worth noting that the Fiat Ducato light chassis leaves their factory with a MTPLM of 3650kg. Then the motorhome factory can either leave it at 3650 or downrate it to 3500. You may find that the original Fiat plate says 3650 (mine does).

The total MGW could be up-plated to 3700kg without any modifications. With rear axle air assisted suspension fitted, the plate weight could increase to a total of 3850kg, but without any increase in axle weight. To get axle weight increase depends on getting tyres with with a higher load index. I am wondering 3850 is the absolute maximum, given that the original plate weight was 3650, and was downplated.

Incidentally, has anyone ever fitted van-type tyres that have a load index of more than 112?

I think that’s largely correct but it is possible to go higher. The factory plate on my Adria Compact gives exactly that - as does the Adria stage 2 plate as I opted for the no cost ‘upgrade’ back up to 3650kg.

I’ve just done the exercise with VWE and with the Dunlop rear air already fitted we can go to 4250kg with 2400kg (400kg increase) on the back axle. Apart from the rear air, getting there was dependent on the factory fitted 116 rated Agilis 225/75R16 CP tyres in conjunction with the Fiat 1250kg rated alloy wheels.

I think I’ve been lucky.

 

[Minxy]

I was told it is compulsory to drive a 3500kg rated moho at around 3650kg or so.

What twit told you that?

There is nothing legal that says you must do so, there are tolerances but it depends on which country you're in as some don't give any allowance at all.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

On which note have many people done their own replating paperwork?

I looked into this back in 2015 (or there abouts), I contacted various organisations including govt bodies, and there was no way to do it except using one of their DVSA approved engineering companies.

Unfortunately the approved chap who did quite a few passed away but fortunately VWE came onto the scene and are the cheapest and appear to give a good service, many funsters have used them.

 

[Old Gibber]

Designed to weigh 44 tonners and calibrated at 18 ton.
In practice moden strain guages are quite accurate and accuracy is normally better than 50kg.

It surprised me when I first found out what the tolerances were.

There is a weighbridge in a farmyard near me, with a footpath running through the yard. Whilst out walking one day I was quite surprised when the weighbridge weighed me pretty accurately to within a kg or two.

 

[Old Gibber]

Here is some food for thought
in the USA they have a Ram Pro master 2500 pretty much the same chassis as our fiat ducato Maxi and they come with a generator fitted air con on the roof and a towbar that can carry a small motorbike. How on earth ??

We hired something like this a few years ago in Canada, came with a huge petrol engine fitted. The genny was slung behind the rear axle. It was a Dodge white van, which is I believe the Fiat. - The front was exactly the same.

 

[Emmit]

I thought as long as it didn't weight more than 70 percent of the tow vehicle it was okay.
Every days a school day!

The 'Payload' on a caravan is somewhere in the region of 150/160Kgs.

 

[TonyEmm]

Vans of that age were a lot lighter but I still doubt you could run legally with two people.
You should be able to uprate to 3500 or 3850, might need wheel, tyre changes & suspension mods.

My Rapido plate says 3,500kgs MGW, however, the stage 2 plate (Alko), says 3,700kgs.
I sent a photo to DVLA and within days, I had 200kgs extra payload and reclassified as PHG which reduces my VED!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Orion]

My Rapido plate says 3,500kgs MGW, however, the stage 2 plate (Alko), says 3,700kgs.
I sent a photo to DVLA and within days, I had 200kgs extra payload and reclassified as PHG which reduces my VED!

Wouldn’t the plate sequence be 1 base vehicle manufacturer: 2 Alko chassis: 3 Rapido (converter)?