Novice question on MH weights

[Rogerlathbury]

Hi all, probably a stupid question however here goes. Part of my researching choice of MH is available payload weight. There has been many articles recently on the subject of weights, however what to me is confusing is what is included in the net weight. Some articles mention 75kg of driver weight, 80kg of fuel tank, x weight of gas bottle etc etc., however this seems to vary article by article, is there a definitive answer?
Secondly the Auto Trail Imala range seem to only have around 350kg payload, in members opinion is this adaquate or should I discount this range and look for a van with more?

 

[EX51SSS]

Well tbf, the 75kg is for each person. You may be lighter or heavier of course but it's a guideline. Water weight is subjective as depends how big your tank is and all vary plus grey water adds. The best way is to put in what you think you essentially need, water, gas etc and go to a weigh bridge and that'll give you what you actually weigh and any spare payload you may have left

 

[Lenny HB]

What is included in the MIRO does vary between manufacurers. There are EU guidelines but only the German manufacturers adhere to them.

350 kg payload makes the van not fit for purpose. For two people a realistic payload is 700 kg although some vans that are well speced you can get away with 550-600 kg.

You have to take into account that all factory/dealer/self fitted options reduce the payload by their weight. It is easy to add 200 kg of options thereby reducing the payload by 200 kg .

 

[Rogerlathbury]

Well tbf, the 75kg is for each person. You may be lighter or heavier of course but it's a guideline. Water weight is subjective as depends how big your tank is and all vary plus grey water adds. The best way is to put in what you think you essentially need, water, gas etc and go to a weigh bridge and that'll give you what you actually weigh and any spare payload you may have left

 

[Rogerlathbury]

All very confusing, but logical answer thank you.

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[tonka]

Some of the Autotrails are now VERY poor on payload and i will go with Lenny on saying "not fit for purpose" with some models... The problem i think is that they now try and build to meet the license limits of 3500kg for drivers who passed after 1997. In a lot of cases that means using the Fiat light chassis.
If you have C1 on your license and can go over 3500kg then consider looking at vans that use the Fiat heavy chassis, have a higher weight but also a better payload.

 

[Rogerlathbury]

What is included in the MIRO does vary between manufacurers. There are EU guidelines but only the German manufacturers adhere to them.

350 kg payload makes the van not fit for purpose. For two people a realistic payload is 700 kg although some vans that are well speced you can get away with 550-600 kg.

You have to take into account that all factory/dealer/self fitted options reduce the payload by their weight. It is easy to add 200 kg of options thereby reducing the payload by 200 kg .

What is included in the MIRO does vary between manufacurers. There are EU guidelines but only the German manufacturers adhere to them.

350 kg payload makes the van not fit for purpose. For two people a realistic payload is 700 kg although some vans that are well speced you can get away with 550-600 kg.

You have to take into account that all factory/dealer/self fitted options reduce the payload by their weight. It is easy to add 200 kg of options thereby reducing the payload by 200 kg .

Some of the Autotrails are now VERY poor on payload and i will go with Lenny on saying "not fit for purpose" with some models... The problem i think is that they now try and build to meet the license limits of 3500kg for drivers who passed after 1997. In a lot of cases that means using the Fiat light chassis.
If you have C1 on your license and can go over 3500kg then consider looking at vans that use the Fiat heavy chassis, have a higher weight but also a better payload.

 

[Rogerlathbury]

I am ‘negotiating’ with the DVLA to reinstate my C1 so hopefully this will give me more choice. It does seem like manufacturers are shoe honing what ever they can into there design to make the MH attractive to a wide an audience as possible. I cannot condem them for that other than it can made the final result impractical.

 

[Potty]

We have an Imala 615. MIRO 3010kg, giving us a payload of 490 kegs. Find that fine for 2 plus 19kg of dog for a couple of months touring. The payload you need depends on what you want to take.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

We have an Imala 615. MIRO 3010kg, giving us a payload of 490 kegs. Find that fine for 2 plus 19kg of dog for a couple of months touring. The payload you need depends on what you want to take.

I would be very interested to know what your Imala ACTUALLY weighs on a weigh bridge . Would you share that info

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[Blue Knight]

Hi all, probably a stupid question however here goes. Part of my researching choice of MH is available payload weight. There has been many articles recently on the subject of weights, however what to me is confusing is what is included in the net weight. Some articles mention 75kg of driver weight, 80kg of fuel tank, x weight of gas bottle etc etc., however this seems to vary article by article, is there a definitive answer?
Secondly the Auto Trail Imala range seem to only have around 350kg payload, in members opinion is this adaquate or should I discount this range and look for a van with more?

Hi Roger,

If you mention the specific Imala you like and we can do some initial calculations for you - exanple:

Imala 730:

1. MIRO: 3,240kg.
2. Awning, bike rack, solar, TV, aerial, plus 1 x 13kg gas bottle: 95kg.
3. Slight variation in MIRO due to the material types being used in the construction: 40kg.

Sum total: 3,375kg (includes driver at 75kg, 20-litres of water, 90% fuel and 1x6kg gas bottle.

Does not include any extra weight for the driver over 75kg, no passenger(s), usable water, waste water, potty water, food, bikes, clothes, camping gear etc etc.

It soon adds up.

Also, just watch out for the leaky Autotrail reputation but I'm sure that you've read about that many times before.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Just as a general comment regarding MIRO

In my opinion, the “concept” of MIRO is a notional number originally thought to “protect” buyers ( I suppose less-informed buyers) when making a purchase
Reality, this ‘number’ is the very number that invokes the most confusion/ mis- information used by some manufacturers for their gain

IMO- Unladen Weight would be a better starting point with a realistic list of “extras” that most people have and their weights

Should a spare wheel, solar, a tv , a sun/rain canopy or even a passenger EVER be peddled as ‘extras’ ( regarding weight) by an industry hell-bent on insisting post-delivery that you really NEED them ???

 

[Jim]

A couple can get by with as little as 350kg payload, but you'll constantly be on a motorhome diet, being really careful about what you pack, making sure that all tanks are empty before travel. To stay legal you'll not be able to stock up on cases of wine in France, nor take grandkids away for the weekend.

 

[ABZSteve]

We have an Imala 615. MIRO 3010kg, giving us a payload of 490 kegs. Find that fine for 2 plus 19kg of dog for a couple of months touring. The payload you need depends on what you want to take.

Our first MoHo was an Imala 615. Plenty of payload after 3650kg upgrade

 

[ABZSteve]

Hi all, probably a stupid question however here goes. Part of my researching choice of MH is available payload weight. There has been many articles recently on the subject of weights, however what to me is confusing is what is included in the net weight. Some articles mention 75kg of driver weight, 80kg of fuel tank, x weight of gas bottle etc etc., however this seems to vary article by article, is there a definitive answer?
Secondly the Auto Trail Imala range seem to only have around 350kg payload, in members opinion is this adaquate or should I discount this range and look for a van with more?

Yes, some Autotrail models have negative payload once options are added. No idea how they get away that

I had the Imala 615 upgraded to 3650kg at the factory an it had sufficient payload for 2. I now have the Apache 634 upgraded to 3650kg at the factory then uplated by me to 3850Kg because the payload was so bad. Didn't bother me though because I knew I could "fix" it . We now have a payload of around 700kg. We probably have around 200kg spare if we travel without water and certain food/drink items.

If you look at the tolerances below, AT contradict themselves from one publication to another

From the Autotrail Brochure

From The 2018 Autotrail Apache 634 Handbook

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[sallylillian]

I am ‘negotiating’ with the DVLA to reinstate my C1 so hopefully this will give me more choice. It does seem like manufacturers are shoe honing what ever they can into there design to make the MH attractive to a wide an audience as possible. I cannot condem them for that other than it can made the final result impractical.

Assuming you are over 70 and did not renew at 70 with a D4 medical then just getting a new medical which conforms to the DVLA health requirements makes reinstatement relatively painless. My wife retained her C1 at 70 but relinquished her C to avoid the continued annual D4 and just having the 3 yearly one for the C1. However we recently went back to a HGV motor home and she reinstated her C with a medical. The DVLA did require a more in depth eye test however she now has her C back at 72.
Michael

 

[Potty]

I would be very interested to know what your Imala ACTUALLY weighs on a weigh bridge . Would you share that info

We have only weighed it packed “ready to go”, not empty so can’t confirm the MIRO but on that occasion it weighed 20kgs under 3500kg. That include 2 dogs with a combined weight of 41kgs, also water tank was full. We did a cull of unnecessary items and now rarely travel with a full tank of water. We were weighed by gendarmes in France last year and they were satisfied with our weight.

We take all our dog’s food with us and that is mostly eaten when we return so we have 15kgs spare for a couple of wine boxes. Don’t have room to bring back a dozen bottles of wine so don’t have to worry about their weight. The fridge is quite small so weight of food in there isn’t that significant also don’t pack much tinned food.

We have to stick to 3500kg so we “cut our coat according to our cloth”.

 

[Lenny HB]

We have only weighed it packed “ready to go”, not empty so can’t confirm the MIRO but on that occasion it weighed 20kgs under 3500kg. That include 2 dogs with a combined weight of 41kgs, also water tank was full. We did a cull of unnecessary items and now rarely travel with a full tank of water. We were weighed by gendarmes in France last year and they were satisfied with our weight.

Do you carry bikes?
As most of us carry a couple of e-bikes these days which is 50kg, our bike locks weigh another 5kg then all the extra cycling clothing & helmets and if you need a rack to carry them, more weight.

 

[Lenny HB]

I am ‘negotiating’ with the DVLA to reinstate my C1 so hopefully this will give me more choice. It does seem like manufacturers are shoe honing what ever they can into there design to make the MH attractive to a wide an audience as possible. I cannot condem them for that other than it can made the final result impractical.

Very sensible, makes life so much easier not worrying about what you can take with you.
Our van is 4500 kg with a 1350 kg payload, we run at around 4200 kg with 300 kg spare on both axles.

Another thing to bear in mind is most vans come out of the factory on their upper weight limit of the +/-5% tolerance so that reduces your payload by 150 kg.

 

[Lenny HB]

A couple can get by with as little as 350kg payload

It is possible but only if the van comes out of the factory at or under it's specified weight, most come out 100-150 kg over leaving you only 200 kg of payload.

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[two]

I doubt if anyone’s as observant of their payload when filling up their car?

The important thing about payload is to be aware that you can only carry a finite amount of stuff in most motorhomes. Nothing magical will suddenly happen the moment you exceed it, just like food going off immediately after its sell-by date, but payloads are something to heed. Whatever your payload (I once had over a tonne) you can easily exceed it without realising and I know some who routinely do so. It’s often said that you can never have too much payload, so I looked for the best I could find ~ you are almost certain to use it up. If you’re buying second hand, you can remove the guess-work out by taking it to a weighbridge, of course. The lighter your van, the easier it is likely to be to drive and fuel consumption should also be better.

MIRO figures vary and the method of calculation is usually stated somewhere (if your eyesight’s good enough) in the manufacturer’s blurb. It usually includes 75% fuel, very little water, a part-full Aluminium gas cylinder and a driver but no passenger. When making comparisons, I looked at the unladen (ex-factory) weights, rather than look at MIROs. The manufacturer’s MIRO will always less than you will be, even in the unlikely event that you leave the other half at home. In practical terms it’s nice to be on holiday without worries, so try to be under, but I don’t think you’d be prosecuted for being over by a small amount. There’s an intrinsic mass to build a vehicle and that provides a very slim payload if you’re trying to keep below 3.5tonne. In spite of that, there are plenty of them in use every day. I’m sure that many are overweight, knowingly or otherwise.

My last vehicle stated an unladen weight ±5%. I took it to the weighbridge immediately after collection and found it to be just 15kg under the +5% (completely dry but a small amount of fuel). I doubt that many (if any) ever come in below the stated weight. 5% of 3000Kg is 150Kg and a significant proportion of your payload!

 

[Lenny HB]

My last vehicle stated an unladen weight ±5%. I took it to the weighbridge immediately after collection and found it to be just 15kg under the +5% (completely dry but a small amount of fuel). I doubt that many (if any) ever come in below the stated weight. 5% of 3000Kg is 150Kg and a significant proportion of your payload!

I have had 3 Hymers first 2 about 30 kg under the stated weight current one 16 kg over. I know other Hymer owners with similar experiences but I've yet to find another manufacturer that meets the stated weight. Every Carthago I've come across is always around 130 kg over stated weight.

 

[sallylillian]

Being inattentive to weight can be costly, if you don't have a C1 and you are weighed at 3501, you are outside the limit of your licence, so driving without a licence and likely without insurance as a result! Take care at critical points.

 

[two]

Hymer used to put their vehicles on scales for punters to see the weight of those displayed at shows. They must have a degree of confidence in their ULWs.
Marketing is a bit like politics: all smoke 'n mirrors, very few relevant facts.

 

[thebriars]

What is included in the MIRO does vary between manufacurers. There are EU guidelines but only the German manufacturers adhere to them.

A very biased and clearly incorrect generalisation. My Benimar meets EU 1646-2 standard.directive 1230/2012 and the EN.

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[thebriars]

I have had 3 Hymers first 2 about 30 kg under the stated weight current one 16 kg over. I know other Hymer owners with similar experiences but I've yet to find another manufacturer that meets the stated weight. Every Carthago I've come across is always around 130 kg over stated weight.

Should try a Benimar, mine was within 20kg.

 

[thebriars]

It is also worth remembering that in the UK there is a 5% weight tolerance, i.e. on 3500kg that equates to 175kg.

We manage quite well to just keep under the 3500kg with two electric bikes and a mobility scooter in the garage, but then we don't take half the clutter I see others dragging round with them.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Our Adria PVC was amost bang on

 

[AXO66]

We were in full travelling mode when last weighed at a weigh bridge.
variables were 1 x 8year old grandchild with her luggage, 1 x 11kg dog, half tank water (60kgs)half tank fuel, (40litres) no bikes.

came in at 3280kgs.

so add on 60kgs of water, 38kgs fuel, 32 kgs bikes, minus 30 kgs grandchild . weight would be 3380 kgs, so around 100 kgs to play with

 

[Helen Ariel]

Our new Dethleffs has come in dead on it's stated miro. Payload is 580 and we recon we'll manage with that for 2 plus dog.