Not just a Calor shortage but short gas weight too. AGAIN!

[Spriddler]

I recently posted about consistently underweight bottles and Calor's and the local authority Weights and Measures Dep't findings here:
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...r-propane-cylinder.194810/page-2#post-4490013

However, yesterday I needed a 6kg propane refill and knowing they are scarce I phoned 4 Calor stockists (one said they had one so I drove 18 miles to find that they didn't have any, in fact the yard guy said he'd forgotten what they look like). Once bitten and instead of phoning I visited around 9 more including garages, garden centres and hardware stores, all showing the 'Calor sold here' signs but without luck.
I then phoned Jeffersons main Calor distribution centre at Shoreham harbour, 17 miles away, who had two so I paid there and then by phone (£30) and went and exchanged mine.
From past experience of underweight bottles (see link above) I decided to weigh it when home. Full 9.8kg, Tare 4.6kg (Neck collar stamped 10 - 02 (= 10lbs 2ozs = 4.6kg.). Therefore the gas content was 5.2kg not 6kg.
When I spoke to Ben at Jeffersons he apologised and said he would put a fiver credit on my account. He also said that he used to work in the filling centre where all returned bottles were purged of any residual gas, pressure tested and a new Tare weight neck collar was stamped and fitted after weighing.
I think some of us are being diddled.

 

[JJ]

I think some of us are being diddled.

Being diddled by Calor Gas?

Surely not.

JJ

 

[Spriddler]

It was for my son's caravan as I have a Gaslow refillable system in the m/h.
I appreciate that I was lucky to be able to exchange his bottle at all but my main irritation (apart from paying for gas that I didn't get) is that he'll be going away misled into thinking that he has a full bottle when in fact it's already nearly 1kg (16%) underfilled.

 

[phase3begins]

Did the Calor man ask to see your test certificate for the weighing mechanisms?

 

[nicholsong]

Did the Calor man ask to see your test certificate for the weighing mechanisms?

Posted in error

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[Obernockle]

I have experienced this twice in recent years. On one occasion the local trading standards people came to my home on an unofficial basis and weighed the bottles (I had 3 at the time) and two were underweight by a small amount. As the officials were working on an informal basis, they could not inform me of any further information. Unofficial basis means what?

 

[KarlosX250]

A thought occurs - If i wanted to refill my 13kg bottle then i was told to work out how many litres of gas should be in there (1L of gas weighing 0.5kg's) and then minus 20% off that for the safety gap. But if that's the case, why do they say there's 13kg's of gas in the bottle when it's full/new, surely they should never be full if that advice was correct, and therefore would that explain the slight underweight thing when you weigh them yourself? Or is there more than 26L's worth of space in a 13kg bottle, in which case can i also refill with 13kg's (26L) of gas and ignore the 20%?

 

[Emmit]

A thought occurs - If i wanted to refill my 13kg bottle then i was told to work out how many litres of gas should be in there (1L of gas weighing 0.5kg's) and then minus 20% off that for the safety gap. But if that's the case, why do they say there's 13kg's of gas in the bottle when it's full/new, surely they should never be full if that advice was correct, and therefore would that explain the slight underweight thing when you weigh them yourself? Or is there more than 26L's worth of space in a 13kg bottle, in which case can i also refill with 13kg's (26L) of gas and ignore the 20%?

It's my understanding that there is 20% space in every bottle regardless of capacity.

 

[cyberyacht]

As an example a 10KG Safefill holds 19.5L although the actual cylinder capacity is 24.5L. Same applies to other cylinders. A 6Kg Calor propane has an absolute capacity of 7.5Kg to allow for the 80%.

 

[Lenny HB]

A thought occurs - If i wanted to refill my 13kg bottle then i was told to work out how many litres of gas should be in there (1L of gas weighing 0.5kg's) and then minus 20% off that for the safety gap. But if that's the case, why do they say there's 13kg's of gas in the bottle when it's full/new, surely they should never be full if that advice was correct, and therefore would that explain the slight underweight thing when you weigh them yourself? Or is there more than 26L's worth of space in a 13kg bottle, in which case can i also refill with 13kg's (26L) of gas and ignore the 20%?

Gas bottle contents is stated by the actual amount of gas they hold and it allows for the 20%.
Gas tanks (underslung tanks) it is the actual total capacity so you need to reduce the amount by 20%.
Anything to confuse the punter.

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[KarlosX250]

As an example a 10KG Safefill holds 19.5L although the actual cylinder capacity is 24.5L. Same applies to other cylinders. A 6Kg Calor propane has an absolute capacity of 7.5Kg to allow for the 80%.

Gas bottle contents is stated by the actual amount of gas they hold and it allows for the 20%.
Gas tanks (underslung tanks) it is the actual total capacity so you need to reduce the amount by 20%.
Anything to confuse the punter.

Excellent answers, that's cleared that up for me, thank you.
So, as i suspected, you can actually put 13kg's worth of gas into a 13kg bottle (it sounds obvious when it's put like that doesn't it).

 

[nicholsong]

I have experienced this twice in recent years. On one occasion the local trading standards people came to my home on an unofficial basis and weighed the bottles (I had 3 at the time) and two were underweight by a small amount. As the officials were working on an informal basis, they could not inform me of any further information. Unofficial basis means what?

It could just mean that they could not take any official action for inspecting the bottles at your house, because after buying them you could have used some gas or inadvertently leaked some. Well that could be a defence if the supplier were prosecuted.

Just one idea.

Geoff

 

[Spriddler]

Well now; a year on I'm continuing my original thread with my exposé of underweight 6kg Propane cylinders.
I've just exchanged the previous 6kg one at a main Calor Gas distribution centre. That one was also underweight; containing only 5.2kg and I was given a fiver credit on my account at the time...........

Cylinder obtained today........
Actual full weight 13.90 kg
Tare 8.28 kg (18lbs 4 ozs Tare shown on cylinder neck disc).

Weight of gas 5.62kg

Weighed using firm's calibrated scales.

I was alerted to this a couple of years ago by a m/h pal who also had two consecutive underweight cylinders. He reported it to Weights and Measures who said they'd follow it up. They also said it wasn't legal to show the Tare weight in Imperial and the contents in Metric units.
Either the Tare weights are wrong or I (and you?) are still being diddled. It's not the end of the world but it 'aint right.

And today's refill was £33.00.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

5.62kgs, = 6kg +/- 10%

 

[Spriddler]

5.62kgs, = 6kg +/- 10%

Yebbut, they don't give me the option to pay +/- 10%

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[gus-lopez]

£31,75 from jeffersons delivered today. 6kg propane