New van, quality control?

rogeroger

rogeroger

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Hello Funsters, we have owned a brand new Auto Trail V Line for just over three months and can’t believe some of the iffy design, faults and quality control issues that we are still trying resolve. Am I being unreasonable or is this typical, industry wide? I’m not a youtuber but I felt compelled to post a review of the first three months of ownership that I think would be worth a watch by anyone considering a new van of any make. My review is thirty mins long so it is split into two parts with part two most informative! Parts 1 & 2 as follows:

and

And remember. Never use chlorine based water treatments to sterilise your fresh water tank. i.e. bleach, Milton, etc. It eats stainless steel!
 
This reflects my experience with a AT Vline 610 sport - quality control is non-existent - designers obviously never spent a night in a motorhome - good potential but never achieved . Now have Malibu 640 charming - more expensive but well worth the extra compared to AT!
 
Watching those videos I'm pleased I went to IH for my van . OK a bit more expensive but real quality . I've never had any dealings with Auto Trail but they should be ashamed of themselves producing that standard of workmanship . Hopefully anyone contemplating purchasing an identical model will now be forewarned . Don't be too disappointed if you don't get a Christmas card from the dealer that supplied it although if they sent one they would probably forget to put a stamp on the envelope .
 
hmm. I've watched through your videos. I suspect you have the V-Line-S rather than the SE model. A couple of your criticisms would have been addressed by the higher spec. However it is very clear that whoever designed the V-Line has not spent anything more than an overnight on a fully equipped campsite. I have similar issues, but have learned to live with them. I had a detailed first impressions review somewhere buried in the Autotrail section of the forum. If I buy again it would be from somewhere like Consort Motorhomes (the guy who once ran Vantage), as it's clear he's used the van for months on end and sussed the sillier layout issues. I also suspect that some of the "quality issues" would be less apparent with a smaller volume builder.

My 5.4 van a couple of years earlier model, has it's own layout foibles. The rear window is common place. Indeed I can't open either side as one would get taken out by the sliding door, the other has the heater flue beneath and a sensor on the window prevents the trauma (deliberate misspelling) operating for fear of fumes sucked into the van. My wardrobe isn't an accessibility problem yet the fridge beneath can't open wide enough to remove that freezer compartment thing. In some respects your shower / wc is better as although you have the open shelves in mine they are behind the WC so anything stored is within the male spray zone :tmi:. But in a PVC without the width of a coachbuilt you are trying to squeeze a lot in so many cupboards, controls, whatever will need some mobility to get to them.

You allude to the LPG gauge. That is a common problem. The tubular shape of the underslung cylinder isn't big enough for the float system to really work, and the slightest out of level makes thing a lot worse. Once mine goes red I know I still have around 6l of the 20 or so left.

Electrics are the real achillies heel of the V-Line. That battery capacity is hopeless except for a single night off grid without use of any TV. The Sargent thing (if they are still fitting the EC176 or similar) is hopeless with the battery charger part out of date 15+ years ago. I ended up shelling out on a Lithium (partly due to lack of space for multiple lead-acid or GEL batteries), with B2B charger, MPPT controller to replace that pants PWM Autotrail thing. The V-line has a lot of bling in all of those lights, which hides the lack of USB and 12V points off the habitation area, and those shiny LED strips won't like the slightly higher voltage of the lithium.

In many respects the V-Line is built to a price (I think the jargon may be value engineering). But it is also built to weight and payload. Some of the niceties like your mug racks add both cost and weight. Yes some things are poorly done, and I see some modifications (for the better and worse) from your video which shows they continue to evolve the design and manufacture process. Some of the issues are, as you acknowledge, a failure to appreciate the specification you had orders. Some are poor design. Some are limitations of the components chosen, either by Autotrail or even Fiat. Poor workmanship is however something that seems to affect many of the larger motorhome manufacturer's. With their warranty claims it's something that you do wonder why manufacturer's don't want to pay greater attention as currently they must have to set aside a chunk of money or profit from each van sold to pay to address those issues that are preventable.
 
Our first Autotrail 2008 brilliant our new 2010 chieftain totally different animal got rid while it still had warranty but then again bought a new Hymer in 2017 and the dealers had it more than us then a Carthago quite a nice build but very poor customer service and dreadful parts backup to date 🤬
I’m hoping they will prove me wrong but have been waiting over 4weeks for a part for the wiper mech now the main control panel has failed so next to no electrics, parts due February 2022!!!! Can’t win🤯
 
rogeroger said:
And remember. Never use chlorine based water treatments to sterilise your fresh water tank. i.e. bleach, Milton, etc. It eats stainless steel!
Click to expand...
Great videos. Don't agree with this comment though. Said it many times on here

Chlorine will only damage stainless steel (SS) if left in contact with it for long periods at a high concentration. I have worked in the water/process industry for 40 years and SS is commonly used and cleaned with chlorine/bleach with no ill effect. The mistake people always make is that they use too much

For example: It only takes 5ml of milton in 100 litres to disinfect your fresh water tank. Yes if you started filling your whole system with neat bleach then you will start to oxidise your SS parts.

Remember the water you fill with has chlorine in from the tap. Its a low concentration (0.3 to 1.5mg/l ish) and its fine with SS

Remember too that chlorine is the best disinfectant by miles. That's why its used in around 99% of public water supply systems and will be for many years to come
 
rogeroger said:
Hello Funsters, we have owned a brand new Auto Trail V Line for just over three months and can’t believe some of the iffy design, faults and quality control issues that we are still trying resolve. Am I being unreasonable or is this typical, industry wide? I’m not a youtuber but I felt compelled to post a review of the first three months of ownership that I think would be worth a watch by anyone considering a new van of any make. My review is thirty mins long so it is split into two parts with part two most informative! Parts 1 & 2 as follows:
Click to expand...
With me, you'll usually find that I'm one of the biggest supporters of the Trigano designed Auto Trails but there's absolutely no excuse for the seat base, rear blind or above cab sunroof. Simply shoddy.

As for the other stuff. It's all very clearly stated on the online van specific, options, specification pages and price lists. I suspect that Dolphin threw the TV in as a freebie as they also tend to do this with their Roller Teams.

Awning handles are usually a standard length.

Personally I don't think the storage is bad considering it's a sub 6m van with 4 travel seats.
 
I looked at buying brand new, various makes, and the state of them left me with the feeling I wouldnt have paid half the asking prices.
So flimsy and when the drawer handle came off in my hand I went and bought and 2012 used model instead (before they started building to weight and cost as much).

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Interesting this. So you paid £58,000 for an autotrail pvc. I paid £58,000 for. Burstner 727G coach built. Brand new March 2021 bought straight off the forecourt. They are chalk and cheese in terms of spec, size, space and quality. The only thing that seems better spec in this auto trail is the 9 speed auto box and 160 bhp. Mines the 140 and manual.

Is that Autotrail overpriced or did I just get a good deal?
 
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Very very pleased with our Carthago Malibou coach built .

Colyboy
 
VXman said:
Interesting this. So you paid £58,000 for an autotrail pvc. I paid £58,000 for. Burstner 727G coach built. Brand new March 2021 bought straight off the forecourt. They are chalk and cheese in terms of spec, size, space and quality. The only thing that seems better spec in this auto trail is the 9 speed auto box and 160 bhp. Mines the 140 and manual.

Is that Autotrail overpriced or did I just get a good deal?
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PVC's are more expensive to produce so are poorer value for money. A decent spec Malibu PVC will cost you the wrong side of £75k.
 
Having watched your vids I commiserate with you. I am disgusted with the rear door, the foil you see is sound deadening material not insulation, the voids should have a Dacron or other insulation filler, I suspect the plastic door panels will be cold to the touch in winter. I fear the rest of the van ‘insulation’ will be just as bad.
Your experience and those of others who thought by buying a ‘Professionally‘ built van would get value for money but found anything but made me go down the spec it myself and get a local convertor to build it so I could see what was installed and generally I am happy with only a few things to change after a couple of years of use.

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when i saw the title i thought thats two things you dont often see together
 
gpat said:
Don't agree with this comment though. Said it many times on here

Chlorine will only damage stainless steel (SS) if left in contact with it for long periods at a high concentration. I have worked in the water/process industry for 40 years and SS is commonly used and cleaned with chlorine/bleach with no ill effect. The mistake people always make is that they use too much
Click to expand...
I agree, in fact the instruction booklet for my 2003 swift actually tells me to use milton
 
We have only owned MH's over 18 years of age. When we visit shows and dealers and look at "new" we are amazed that the quality over the years seems to have gone down not up! (If you skip over the real premium brands). When I chat to new owners they almost always have had to return to dealer or seek advice in great forums like this to solve niggles.
Whilst I appreciate they can be complicated beasts the overall quality is sadly lacking.
Good things - Surfaces look shinier, lights are fancy LED and engines have generally improved along with Auto options but the standard of fit and finish when you pull open drawers, cupboards or look at routing of pipes and ease of access are often shoddy...... I almost always find something broken or loose at the big MH shows when we go around being nosey. And that's just light usage from visitors having a look.
Our 20 year old Autocruise Coachbuilt (now sold) seems rock solid compared to a lot of newer vehicles.
 
I'm sorry to hear of your problems, but not surprised. We ordered a brand new V-line this year, however after ordering it I came across the V-line facebook page which detailed problem after problem with them. I made a list of the most well known problems and asked the dealer if he would do some preventative maintenance before I took delivery (I said I would pay for this work) - they refused. My van arrived and I spotted 2 very large black marks on the ceiling which looked like they had been made by a felt tip pen. The dealer said he could get these off but they didn't manage to, so I rejected the van and got a full refund. I then bought a used 2019 Auto Sleeper Warwick XL. It's a fabulous van, we're really pleased with it and feel we've dodged a bullet with the V-Line.
 
Jev88 said:
we are amazed that the quality over the years seems to have gone down not up! (If you skip over the real premium brands).
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Don’t think its only the lower cost vans that have loads of issues🤔🤔

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No damp then? I thought that was standard. My AT Tribute was built "abroad", at least 10k cheaper than the AT V-line. Much better value. It's got fittings similar to Roller Team, and who knows where it was built, but it's better than that one. Yes there's things I'd change, but we've adapted to it and think it's great. I agree about the insulation on back doors, but I haven;t got the courage to take the linings off.
 
Hi, We also purchased a new Deamer Living Van, in the end handed back and offererd a full refund (part ex on replacement). My opinion is that there was a combinatioin of a rush to get back orders out of the factory and possible temp staff that let standard drop. We ended out part-ex (full value) against a Hymer MLT 570 Coachbuild, slightly larger, but the quality is night and day, though it is 2 years old so maybe the previous owner sorted out all the niggles. The Dreamer design was actually pretty good, just cheked a picture and we could open the sliding door and rear window :-) , there was a few niggles, my wife hated the toilet with the dangling feet!! also we had a postage stamp of an oven/grill that you had to go on your hands and knees to access. Below is out horror list

  • During the handover, the air suspension was found to be faulty and had to be replaced which delayed our departure by 3 hours.
  • Shower cupboard lock not fitted correctly, causing the door to open and rip out of the wood, lock fixed, and doors secured by local specialist approved by the dealer. The lock should have been checked as part of the delivery pre checks. It should have been found and fixed under manufacturers quality control and dealer pre delivery checks
  • Truma Combi Diesel Heater - diesel pipe not connected from main diesel tank to heater - this has been sorted by local specialist. This must have been delivered in this state. The pipe had to be screwed and attached to the diesel tank.
  • Potentially dangerous fault it appears that not only was the fuel pipe not connected to the main diesel tank, but it was also not securely connected to the Truma Combi Heater. We then went away for the weekend and can only assume as the pipe had been loosely connected to the Truma end, which is a sealed unit, vibration must have disconnected it resulting in Diesel pouring everywhere inside the area around the Truma heater
  • Truma Combi now not functional, obviously the fuel has damaged it.
  • Sink drain unit, poorly fitted, secured with sealant which leaked. Local specialist has replaced complete unit, this is now fixed. In the opinion of specialist, the installed unit was poor and was held in place by some sealant. This should have been found and fixed under manufacturers quality control and Dealer
  • Lots of water located on top of the freshwater tank, just discovered this one, can only assume the lid not connected properly.
  • New leak located in Bathroom - not resolved this should have been found and fixed under manufacturers quality control and dealer
  • Grey Water Drain sensor faulty - still not resolved
  • I am not able to use the Inet Truma app, the Inet unit is located sealed inside the Truma Heater, you need to press the blue-tooth button to enable this. This should have been carried out at handover. - Not resolved
  • We have also had the near side window re-seated, and screws replaced as this had excessive rattles - now resolved by local specialist
  • We have had to replace the digital TV aerial, as the aerial provided by dealer was very poor, the new aerial picked up 29 channels at home - Necvox ANT 536, this was via eBay and cost £40 including delivery at our expense.
 
rogeroger thank you for taking the time to produce those two videos, they reinforce my belief that it is almost impossible to obtain decent design and quality without going down either the self-build or bespoke specialist builder route.
Almost eighteen years ago I tried to find a builder that would produce what we wanted within our budget and in the end, with the aid of early semi retirement, went down the self-build route. I've now built five LWB high roof VW PVCs.
A MAN TGE 3.180 (LWB VW Crafter with different badges) is now on order which should, semi conductor supply dependent, be with us late spring 2022. That I hope to have converted to my specification and under my watchful eyes. Even then I have no doubt that I will be doing some modifications when its been used for a while.
The price will unfortunately be somewhat more than your Auto Trail as to begin with the base vehicle with many 'bell & whistles' comes much dearer than the Fiat options.

Good luck with your AT, I hope in the end you have many enjoyable years service out of it.
 
Got rid of my 2019 Autotrail Imala 734 (bought brand new) had more snagging than you could shake a stick at. Had been back to the dealer 6 times, .
never again.
 
Lenny HB said:
PVC's are more expensive to produce so are poorer value for money. A decent spec Malibu PVC will cost you the wrong side of £75k.
Click to expand...
You just wonder why they cost more...Can't believe how the price of new vans has risen.Back in 2008 I purchased a new Trigano Tribute 650 at the NEC..It cost me just under 30k..Mind you although it looked superb it was poor quality,,only kept it 6 months,
 
Tombola said:
Got rid of my 2019 Autotrail Imala 734 (bought brand new) had more snagging than you could shake a stick at. Had been back to the dealer 6 times, .
never again.
Click to expand...
What did you buy as a replacement ? Any better?

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