Medical form D4 ....completed by a nurse

Riverbankannie

Riverbankannie

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Went for the medical with Doctors on Wheels today. I assumed the lady doing it would be a doctor. When it came to cardiac, I explained about my LBBB (left bundle branch block) and she didn’t know what it was and said she was going to phone the doctor. I was surprised and said that I assumed the form had to be completed by a doctor. She said she was a nurse and it was ok because she had these....pointing to some ink pad stamps.
So the doctor on the phone told her where to put the relevant ticks in section h and a short comment not exactly writing what I told her. The form now has an ink stamp in section 10 confirming that the signature belongs to a registered GMC practitioner licensed to practice in UK.

What do you all think of this?
 
Enjoy your trip :)
 
Camdoon said:
Enjoy your trip :)
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Well I didn’t sign it so not my problem except that I suspect DVLA may write to GP for clarification and ECG results which will cause massive delay.
 
I suppose if you had "forgotten" about your LBBB then the nurse/Dr would have signed you off without any need for the DVLA to check with your doctor or is that what DVLA do anyway if you use a doctor other than your own practise?
 
I would be very cautious about this. I have a particular cardiac issue about which the DVLA is aware and for which I need 2 annual checks. As long as I comply DVLA leave me in peace but make it clear any non compliance equals loss of licence, all this before I reach 70 (just).
My advice, for what it's worth, talk to your GP and DVLA , any issues you may find yourself unlicensed and uninsured. Sadly I have struggled to find any one who can give a definitive opinion, DVLA, NHS, GP and insurance company give varying answers or no comment. Can't help feeling that those of us with such issues should join together and lobby for guidance. This is a subject which could attract lots of different opinions, be careful which to follow. Whatever take care and I trust all is resolved to your satisfaction.

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If the form has been signed and stamped , that's down to them not you , if the DVLA then issue you with a renewal that needs to be accepted as well . You have for all purposes been issued with the license and that fulfills the laws requirements . If the DVLA carry out any inquiries that's fine as well. Don,t make problems for yourself.
 
Riverbankannie said:
Went for the medical with Doctors on Wheels today. I assumed the lady doing it would be a doctor. When it came to cardiac, I explained about my LBBB (left bundle branch block) and she didn’t know what it was and said she was going to phone the doctor. I was surprised and said that I assumed the form had to be completed by a doctor. She said she was a nurse and it was ok because she had these....pointing to some ink pad stamps.
So the doctor on the phone told her where to put the relevant ticks in section h and a short comment not exactly writing what I told her. The form now has an ink stamp in section 10 confirming that the signature belongs to a registered GMC practitioner licensed to practice in UK.

What do you all think of this?
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Sounds just like my 'medical'

Just form filling by a nurse, doctor arrived checked the form and signed it

Not sure if the DVLA were happy with it, took ages and then I had to do a treadmill test

Took almost 5 months but got my C1 back

.
 
Riverbankannie said:
Went for the medical with Doctors on Wheels today. I assumed the lady doing it would be a doctor. When it came to cardiac, I explained about my LBBB (left bundle branch block) and she didn’t know what it was and said she was going to phone the doctor. I was surprised and said that I assumed the form had to be completed by a doctor. She said she was a nurse and it was ok because she had these....pointing to some ink pad stamps.
So the doctor on the phone told her where to put the relevant ticks in section h and a short comment not exactly writing what I told her. The form now has an ink stamp in section 10 confirming that the signature belongs to a registered GMC practitioner licensed to practice in UK.

What do you all think of this?
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I think that's why I went to my own Doctor!

It makes a mockery of the whole system.....which is meant to be for everyone's safety.
 
My Dad was reported to DVLA for medical stuff and he had to have a medical - done by a nurse and signed off by his GP who didn't even see him.

I was furious as Dad is a menace on the roads. It makes a mockery of the whole system and the DVLA don't help by making it so difficult to report someone who has not declared medical issues (even when told to do so) or who is just not safe to be driving.

This isn't a "pop" at older drivers, I know plenty of excellent drivers in their 80s and even 90s. Likewise I know people in their 30s and 40s and 50s who should not be on the road.
 
Riverbankannie said:
Went for the medical with Doctors on Wheels today. I assumed the lady doing it would be a doctor. When it came to cardiac, I explained about my LBBB (left bundle branch block) and she didn’t know what it was and said she was going to phone the doctor. I was surprised and said that I assumed the form had to be completed by a doctor. She said she was a nurse and it was ok because she had these....pointing to some ink pad stamps.
So the doctor on the phone told her where to put the relevant ticks in section h and a short comment not exactly writing what I told her. The form now has an ink stamp in section 10 confirming that the signature belongs to a registered GMC practitioner licensed to practice in UK.

What do you all think of this?
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I would question her “ Fitness to Practice” as required under her NMC registration. As a Nurse she cannot, whatever her skills and training, sign on behalf of the Doctor. That is illegal
I would question Doctors on Wheels?

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2 things I should have added to my earlier post, as my renewal at 70 crept closer I spoke to Doctors on Wheels who said they would decline seeing me as they felt their staff not qualified to test me and this is not with some imminently terminal issue (I hope). Also when my problem first arose I had to surrender my licence for 6 months and found the DVLA medical section very helpful and supportive, unlike other departments.
 
My question about is not about my own fitness to drive, I have been fully investigated by specialists and never advised not to drive, in fact advised to proceed normally with my life. I have no further ongoing tests or medication.
My worry is over the legality of the form. I know I could just send it in but should I report to GMC or trading standards? The form states that it has been completed by a licensed practioner of the GMC and it clearly has not been.
 
matamoros said:
I think that's why I went to my own Doctor!

It makes a mockery of the whole system.....which is meant to be for everyone's safety.
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If safety was so important they would not charge for the medical just to go to work.
 
I paid £112 to see my own Doctor and pleased I did from what I have just read. Had to go on treadmill and received licence 3 weeks later.

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Tbf, my doctor charges £150.00 for the same form as D4Drivers do and it's £50.00.
 
I’ve got an ink pad and some stamps. If anyone needs their medical form stamping with pretty flowers I’m happy to help.
 
I am feeling in the mood to challenge it, it doesn’t seem right. I am thinking I could just apply to renew at 70 without C1 (MH is 3500) get that in my hand (do it online so quite quick), and then apply for C1 within three months with this form and covering letter to DVLA and maybe copied to BMA and trading standards, explaining what happened.

Would I have to surrender the new licence on application?
 
EX51SSS said:
Actually, some companies do require a fitness to work certificate
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Have you seen what we are fit for in Norfolk. Haha.
I do begrudge paying the huge amount that the dr wants when dr on wheels do it for about £50 . Unfortunately I am not an MP who has the privilege of just putting it on expenditures.

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Ivory55 said:
Have you seen what we are fit for in Norfolk. Haha.
I do begrudge paying the huge amount that the dr wants when dr on wheels do it for about £50 . Unfortunately I am not an MP who has the privilege of just putting it on expenditures.
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Narfook is excluded as no companies would get staff.
 
It seems a bit odd seeing as a nurse employed by capita can take someone's DLA away. Apart from your preexisting condition all the other items on the D4 are quite straightforward for a nurse to do, at our surgery they can issue some prescriptions etc
 
Hmmm ... the nurse did the checks which she is probably more than capable of doing and to be fair when she didn't nkow about some thing she did check, rather than just carry on regardless, BUT she CANNOT sign on behalf of a doctor ... sod the stamps, they don't mean a thing if the form has been fraudulently signed which it appears it has.

My course of action would be to contact Doctors on Wheels and insist that a checks the details/results taken by the nurse so there's no comeback on you, then signs it as it should have been in the first place then you are covered. Then I would report them for purposely contravening the rules ... it may sound harsh but it is fraud for them to be doing it the way they are and it makes you wonder how may people get through the medical that shouldn't.
 
@Riverbankannie you paid for a doctor to do the forms. They are in breach of contract regardless of any other considerations.

I think @Minxy Girl has given the way forward.
 
Riverbankannie said:
My question about is not about my own fitness to drive, I have been fully investigated by specialists and never advised not to drive, in fact advised to proceed normally with my life. I have no further ongoing tests or medication.
My worry is over the legality of the form. I know I could just send it in but should I report to GMC or trading standards? The form states that it has been completed by a licensed practioner of the GMC and it clearly has not been.
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IMO just send it in :)

When I had my medical by Doctors on wheels the Polish doctor examining me took my blood pressure and gave me an eye test to a higher standard than the normal driving test.

The rest of the time he asked me questions from a pre-prepared sheet and provided I gave the answers that ticked all the right boxes on said form then all was well - a nurse could very easily carried out my examination! :)

In your case when the nurse was "out of her depth" she did the right thing and consulted a doctor who then adjudicated on whether or not your problem fell within the scope of a failure of the DVLA test - using is "doctoring" skills he decided that all was well and so you genuinely passed the test!!

Enjoy!! :)

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Dilbert said:
It seems a bit odd seeing as a nurse employed by capita can take someone's DLA away. Apart from your preexisting condition all the other items on the D4 are quite straightforward for a nurse to do, at our surgery they can issue some prescriptions etc
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Some Nurses do extended training to become Nurse Prescibers and work within strict protocols. I am very happy to be seen and treated by Nurse Practitioners at our surgery.
We are not questioning her ability, wouldn’t know what training she has received, however she can’t sign and use the stamp which appears to imply she is GMC registered
Using Nurses is a far cheaper option than employing Doctors to do the assessments which is why they only charge £50.00
I think I would ask for clarity from Dr on Wheels
 
Zoppydog said:
Some Nurses do extended training to become Nurse Prescibers and work within strict protocols. I am very happy to be seen and treated by Nurse Practitioners at our surgery.
We are not questioning her ability, wouldn’t know what training she has received, however she can’t sign and use the stamp which appears to imply she is GMC registered
Using Nurses is a far cheaper option than employing Doctors to do the assessments which is why they only charge £50.00
I think I would ask for clarity from Dr on Wheels
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The Doctor I saw at D4Drivers was a fully qualified Doctor and told me where he practiced and where he was earlier in the day. £50.00 all in..
 
At our surgery, Form was filled in by a member of staff, nurse? HCA?receptionist? don't know. However he went through it did the eye test BP and whatever else they do. Then signed it, attaching copies of hospital reports for John's sleep apnoea, There was a hold up in getting the licence as the rules now say that he has to be checked out once a year by GP (who has no means of checking his machine to make sure he is compliant) and would not accept the consultants opinion. Informative letter sent by consultant an licence arrived a couple of days later. Dreading 2020 as we both have to apply me for the first time, birthdays 3 days apart.
 
My C2 medical was performed in less than 10 minutes. I had no pre-existing medical conditions and the only tests were BP, heart rate, and weight. All of which are well within the skill set of a Nurse. I had the eyetest at my opticians at the same time as my 2 yearly check. Most of the form is self-certified and your signature is to say that you have completed it accurately. The Doctor (or Nurse) performs tests based on your answers to the questions on the form then it's signed by the Doctor to say that he has asked the questions and performed or overseen the tests. As far as l can see and as far as I'm aware the Doctor is not certifying you as fit to drive other than offering his opinion based on your answers to the questions on the form. It is perfectly possible IMO for you to fake the answers and end up with C2 when you should not.

Or in summary the Dr is only a very small part of the renewal process.
 
Minxy Girl said:
Hmmm ... the nurse did the checks which she is probably more than capable of doing and to be fair when she didn't nkow about some thing she did check, rather than just carry on regardless, BUT she CANNOT sign on behalf of a doctor ... sod the stamps, they don't mean a thing if the form has been fraudulently signed which it appears it has.

My course of action would be to contact Doctors on Wheels and insist that a checks the details/results taken by the nurse so there's no comeback on you, then signs it as it should have been in the first place then you are covered. Then I would report them for purposely contravening the rules ... it may sound harsh but it is fraud for them to be doing it the way they are and it makes you wonder how may people get through the medical that shouldn't.
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It is almost self certificating. Whether a nurse or a doctor doing the form it was just down to my honest answers apart from eyesight test, blood pressure reading and weight and height check.
This Doctors on Wheels set up in the middle of Avonmouth trading estate specifically for HGV drivers.
I feel, like most of you, that the check is important and in my view should only be done by your own GP (or practice) who have your history on record.
This is why I feel like raising it further as I have the luxury of not relying on it for driving the MH or for my living.

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