M O T (1 Viewer)

[2bob]

hello would you fail this motor home on the high light marker ?

 

[MikeD]

Saw this on the web but you need @Geo - He is the go-to man for MOT's and always gives good advice

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[David and Sally]

As a generalisation. If it's fitted it must work. If not fitted it can't be tested.

Edit. Ignore me. I see that it's obscured by the awning

 

[Speve]

Only reason I could think is the awning blocks it being seen from front end but I’m no expert

 

[DBK]

Unless the awning has only recently been fitted then it must have passed a few MOTs with it in place.

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[tacr2man]

Fail does not comply with RVLR . That is if it was built after 91 , and is over 2.1 mtrs wide.
and it doesnt have another light than can make it comply fitted to front

 

[tofo]

Always thought red to the rear only + orange indicators
And reversing lights white(when reversing )


Side markers indicators on the side
And white headlights / orange indicators to the front

 

[pappajohn]

Nope, it's a pass...

Obligatory front and rear positionlamps are lamps required byRegulations to be fitted to a vehicle toindicate its presence and width whenviewed from the front or rear.

Two front position lamps must befitted, one on each side and show asteady white light to the front (or yellowif incorporated in a yellow headlamp).

When have headlamps been at roof height

Two rear position lamps must also befitted, one on each side, showing asteady red light to the rear.

All commonly known as SIDE LIGHTS

.Additional or optional lamps are not included in the inspection

These are ANY lights over and above statutory side lights

 

[pappajohn]

Fail does not comply with RVLR . That is if it was built after 91 , and is over 2.1 mtrs wide.
and it doesnt have another light than can make it comply fitted to front

Read the link to the mot testers manual dated 2014 and includes ALL vehicles.

 

[Speve]

All commonly known as SIDE LIGHTS

I thought they were known as high level marker lights?

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[telsdog]

These are known as end outline marker lamps and testing of these items only applies to class 5 vehicles. So unless this camper has more than 12 passenger seats making it class 5 and not class 4, they are not a testable item.

 

[pappajohn]

I thought they were known as high level marker lights?

Maybe they are, but they are also optional as far as mot is concerned according to the mot testers handbook.
According to the manual it must have a white light at each side at the front UNLESS THE POSITION LIGHT IS IN A YELLOW HEADLAMP THEN IT WILL BE YELLOW.
The rear must also have a red position light at each side.

If the front lights are position lights but can be in the headlamp it stands to reason the rear tail lights are also position lights.

Motorhomes are class 4 mot.... The same as a car..... And cars don't have high level marker lights.
You can't have two different class 4 mot requirements.

 

[Speve]

Ours is a 2018 Hymer and we only have the same marker at front end each side, so must assume they are legal as @pappajohn says.

 

[2bob]

thx all

 

[tacr2man]

Read the link to the mot testers manual dated 2014 and includes ALL vehicles.

2014 is out of date latest is here
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the next relevant section is here
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This is quote from that section for end outline marker
End-outline marker lamps
You must inspect end-outline marker lamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1991 that are wider than 2,100mm, excluding side mirrors.

Class 3 vehicles don't need end-outline marker lamps.

The front and rear end outline marker lamps on each side can be combined in one lamp.

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[pappajohn]

2014 is out of date latest is here
Broken Link Removed

the next relevant section is here
Broken Link Removed

This is quote from that section for end outline marker
End-outline marker lamps
You must inspect end-outline marker lamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1991 that are wider than 2,100mm, excluding side mirrors.

Class 3 vehicles don't need end-outline marker lamps.

The front and rear end outline marker lamps on each side can be combined in one lamp.

Wrong class.... Private passenger vehicle is class 5....its in your link (copied below)
Class 4 CANNOT have outline markers.... Where are you going to fit them on a car.

Class 5 Private passenger vehicles, ambulances and motor caravans with 13 or more passenger seats – category M2 or M3


The only compulsory additional lighting is Amber lighting along the low level sides if over a certain length which won't include standard family cars but does include such as stretch limos and long wheelbase vans.

 

[tacr2man]

Wrong class.... Private passenger vehicle is class 5....its in your link (copied below)
Class 4 CANNOT have outline markers.... Where are you going to fit them on a car. My RV is class 4 , a car and as many MOHO it has end outline lamps

Class 5 Private passenger vehicles, ambulances and motor caravans with 13 or more passenger seats – category M2 or M3

Class 5 is not relevant to this as they are based on seating capacity eg minibuses , large buses are class 6 , and you can have a minibus with both class 5 and 6 MOT at same time .

Cars that dont require them are exempted because they are not wide enough ie over 2,1mtrs .

 

[pappajohn]

Class Vehicle type
Class 3 Three-wheeled vehicles not exceeding 450kg ULW (excluding motorcycle combinations) – category L2 or L5
Class 4 Three-wheeled vehicles more than 450kg ULW – category L5 Quadricycles – category L6 or L7
Cars and Taxis – category M1
Minibuses, motor caravans, dual purpose vehicles and ambulances up to 12 passenger seats – category M1 or M2 American pickups up to 6500kg DGW
Goods vehicles not exceeding 3,000kg DGW – category N1
Class 5 Private passenger vehicles, ambulances and motor caravans with 13 or more passenger seats – category M2 or M3
Class 7 Goods vehicles between 3,001kg and 3,500kg DGW inclusive – category


It's there in black and white (and red) a motorhome is class 4 and a 13 seat motorhome is class 5 and requires outline markers.
How many 13 seat motorhomes can you name.

It's like watching f'ing paint dry.
I'm gone.

 

[telsdog]

Now that I have read the correct up to date manual I would like to retract my original post and eat humble pie. It seems it is now a testable item on class 4 vehicles post 1991 and over 2.1m wide. On the vehicle in question as that lamp is at the rear of the vehicle I would think there would be a white outline marker at the front above the windscreen.

 

[dave newell]

For the mot, if relevant, the test is "do they work and do they show white light to the rear" whether or not the view of light is obstructed is not testable, IMHO.

D.

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[telsdog]

Under section 4.2.3 if that is the only light and white light is not visible from the front it will fail under defect a-I emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements. The requirement being that there should be 2 white lamps visible from the front and positioned at windscreen upper edge level or higher.
This I believe is one of the many things that changed this year.

 

[Deneb]

Don't know about the MOT test requirements, but Reg 18 and Schedule 1 of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 require end outline marker lamps to be fitted to ANY motor vehicle EXCEPT

A vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph;
A motor vehicle having an overall width not exceeding 2100 mm;
An incomplete vehicle proceeding to a works for completion or to a place where it is to be stored or displayed for sale;
A motor vehicle first used before 1st April 1991.

Although a lamp is fitted on the vehicle pictured, it fails the visibility requirements for an obligatory end-outline marker lamp as specified in Schedule 13, part 1 of the same regulations, due to the awning fitment.