Lithium batteries (1 Viewer)

[Zepp]

Anyone fitted lithium batteries to a Carthago did you have to change anything ie settings or charger ?

We have a 2017 C line with 2 x 80 amp gel batteries

 

[wiljoy]

I've 2x100amp gel batteries and 2x100 solar which gives us all we need off grid
Looked into the Lithium but not sure the cost justifies fitting them.
Probably very useful if you need a lot more power.

 

[funflair]

If you have “all you need” stick with it.

Martin

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[StephDeLux]

Thanks. Actually, I'd have two goals for using Lithium:

1. Weight saving: one 100Ah LiFePO4 weights about 12 kilos, while 2 80Ah gel batteries weight about 50 kilos.
2. Avoiding solar altogether, by using the extra capacity, ability to really deep discharge and fast charging while driving. This saves another 10 kilos (semi-flexible panels) and saves costs that cover for the lithium battery cost.

This saves nearly 60 kilos in total while costing nothing.

Since I asked the question, I've had other information confirming that if using a Lithium battery which has an in-built BMS, you just replace the gel battery and that's it.

 

[jongood]

Thanks. Actually, I'd have two goals for using Lithium:

1. Weight saving: one 100Ah LiFePO4 weights about 12 kilos, while 2 80Ah gel batteries weight about 50 kilos.
2. Avoiding solar altogether, by using the extra capacity, ability to really deep discharge and fast charging while driving. This saves another 10 kilos (semi-flexible panels) and saves costs that cover for the lithium battery cost.

This saves nearly 60 kilos in total while costing nothing.

Since I asked the question, I've had other information confirming that if using a Lithium battery which has an in-built BMS, you just replace the gel battery and that's it.

I still would be tempted to put some solar on, not wanting to have to travel to get some charge into it.

 

[StephDeLux]

I still would be tempted to put some solar on, not wanting to have to travel to get some charge into it.

I understand, but we move almost everyday anyway.

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[Pausim]

It depends on how you use your motorhome. If you move on everyday a B2B weighing less than 1.5kg makes more sense than solar. If you stay put solar may be more useful.

 

[jongood]

Is 10kgs really that crucial to you? 10 litres of water.

 

[StephDeLux]

Not 10, 60.

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[addoaddo]

I do not think the standard charger on the Cathargo supports lithium batteries, just gel and flood so you would be looking at getting a new 240v charger which would also be needed to increase the charge time.
A battery monitor would also be a wise investment

 

[StephDeLux]

It does, like all chargers that support gel batteries. The tension is the same and the charging program is the same.

 

[jongood]

Not 10, 60.

A solar panel doesn't weigh 60kgs

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[StephDeLux]

A solar panel doesn't weigh 60kgs

I know that. But if you read what I wrote, it is a combination of Lithium benefits that leads to much weight saving. And isolating one small element is misleading. Weight management is about cumulative effects.

No Second lead battery: 25 kilos
First lead battery replacement: 12 kilos
No solar panels: 2 x 10 kilos
No solar MPPT controller/wiring/panel mounting/cabling: 5 kilos

Total weight saved by using Lithium: around 60 kilos.

This applies to our way of travelling. If we stay put at a place for several days then we have electric hook up. We generally drive the van every day. This obviously does not work for staying off-grid several days without driving.

Our other weight management measures:

• No awning (35 kilos)
• No satellite television (30 kgs satellite + 10 kilos television)
• Less than 7 meters van

All in all this saves about 120 - 130 kilos, making our wish to remain under 3.5T a lot more realistic. No plans for a scooter or bikes either.

 

[Lenny HB]

Some of your weight saving seems a bit optimistic

No solar MPPT controller/wiring/panel mounting/cabling: 5 kilos

My Vitronic MPPT regulator weighs 250 gms & solar cables are pre-installed.

No satellite television (30 kgs satellite + 10 kilos television)

My TV 2.5 kg & Sat dish 8kg.
.

 

[StephDeLux]

Some of your weight saving seems a bit optimistic

My Vitronic MPPT regulator weighs 250 gms & solar cables are pre-installed.

My TV 2.5 kg & Sat dish 8kg.
.

I took the weights from the Carthago and Hymer price lists. They quote very similar weights apart from satellite where Carthago says 30 kilos and Hymer 17. A TV does not hold in place by itself. It needs a solid bracket and not all TVs weight 2.5 kilos either.

None of this changes fact that by using Lithium batteries, a lot of weight can be saved. The TV and al are other things we do, not related to Lithium. I shouldn't have mentioned it.

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[Peppadog]

Why do you care so much about weight? If to keep inside the chassis limit, it might be a lot cheaper to uprate it. If for fuel economy, you will never cover the distance required to recover the cost of the, currently very expensive, lithium battery set up.

 

[StephDeLux]

Why do you care so much about weight? If to keep inside the chassis limit, it might be a lot cheaper to uprate it. If for fuel economy, you will never cover the distance required to recover the cost of the, currently very expensive, lithium battery set up.

To uprate it costs nothing. To pass the C1 license does cost a bit, about 1,000€, but most importantly, it is all the restrictions that apply to trucks that bother me. And the hassle with all the obligatory courses to follow, that are only given during working hours, while I still have a fill-time job. Life is much simpler for me with a regular B license.

 

[Lenny HB]

but most importantly, it is all the restrictions that apply to trucks that bother me.

I've not noticed any that cause any problems.

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[StephDeLux]

I don't entertain to drive thousands of km at 90 max, I don't entertain the Go Box in Austria and Switzerland, I don't entertain the barring from some small roads limited to 3.5T, I don't entertain the higher price on motorways, the Viapass in Belgium, etc...

 

[funflair]

To uprate it costs nothing. To pass the C1 license does cost a bit, about 1,000€, but most importantly, it is all the restrictions that apply to trucks that bother me. And the hassle with all the obligatory courses to follow, that are only given during working hours, while I still have a fill-time job. Life is much simpler for me with a regular B license.

Just because you are over 3500kg doesn't mean that truck restrictions apply.

Martin

 

[Peppadog]

Well, my van is 3900kg and I drive it everywhere I want to. Being older, I am lucky to already have C1 on my license, so only need to make sure I keep it when I reach 70.
Personally, I think you are worrying too much about weights and restrictions. Good business for the Li battery companies though!

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[StephDeLux]

Just because you are over 3500kg doesn't mean that truck restrictions apply.

Martin

On which planet? Not on the European continent in any case. Especially when living in Luxembourg where MH are registered as utilitarian vehicles and not as cars. So, if it is above 3.5T, it falls under the lorries legislation.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

It is horses for courses. If it suits your style then go for it

 

[StephDeLux]

Well, my van is 3900kg and I drive it everywhere I want to. Being older, I am lucky to already have C1 on my license, so only need to make sure I keep it when I reach 70.
Personally, I think you are worrying too much about weights and restrictions. Good business for the Li battery companies though!

Happy for you I wish I was in a similar situation.

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[funflair]

On which planet? Not on the European continent in any case. Especially when living in Luxembourg where MH are registered as utilitarian vehicles and not as cars. So, if it is above 3.5T, it falls under the lorries legislation.

We obviously have a different understanding of the rules, for example in Belgium a motorhome over 3500kg does not pay toll charges that apply to Lorries and trucks over 3500kg, likewise in France there are speed limits and no overtaking signs that differentiate between truck and vehicles over 3500kg, I follow the over 3500kg ones not the truck signs.

Martin

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

That's Luxembourg off the list of places to live/visit !!

 

[StephDeLux]

We obviously have a different understanding of the rules, for example in Belgium a motorhome over 3500kg does not pay toll charges that apply to Lorries and trucks over 3500kg, likewise in France there are speed limits and no overtaking signs that differentiate between truck and vehicles over 3500kg, I follow the over 3500kg ones not the truck signs.

Martin

Thanks, but there are fine prints As I said above, in Luxembourg my motorhome will be registered as utilitarian vehicle, meaning a small lorry.

The Belgian Viapass states clearly that to avoid the fee, a motorhome has to be registered as a car. That starts 30 kilometers West of where I live.

In Germany, vehicles registered with more than 3.5T are restricted to 90 km/h, meaning to be glued in the traffic with the big lorries. No thanks. That starts 15 kilometers to the East of where I live.

In France, the motorways surcharges are 50% higher on average if you are above 3.5T. That starts 60 kilometers South from where I live.

And no, with the whole of 25 days off per year, I don't have the time to avoid motorways if I want to go far.

It goes on with other differences in others countries all over Europe.

So, if I can find a MH where I can easily travel without weighing more than 3.5T I get a much easier life. If I cannot find that then I'll pass the C1 license and live with it and until recently I though I4d have to. Now I think I'll be able to do without.

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[funflair]

Thanks, but there are fine prints As I said above, in Luxembourg my motorhome will be registered as utilitarian vehicle, meaning a small lorry.

The Belgian Viapass states clearly that to avoid the fee, a motorhome has to be registered as a car. That starts 30 kilometers West of where I live.

In Germany, vehicles registered with more than 3.5T are restricted to 90 km/h, meaning to be glued in the traffic with the big lorries. No thanks. That starts 15 kilometers to the East of where I live.

In France, the motorways surcharges are 50% higher on average if you are above 3.5T. That starts 60 kilometers South from where I live.

And no, with the whole of 25 days off per year, I don't have the time to avoid motorways if I want to go far.

It goes on with other differences in others countries all over Europe.

So, if I can find a MH where I can easily travel without weighing more than 3.5T I get a much easier life. If I cannot find that then I'll pass the C1 license and live with it and until recently I though I4d have to. Now I think I'll be able to do without.

I can't fault your desire to stay under 3500kg its just some of your facts that I don't agree with, for example from viapass.be Some other specific categories are exempt as well like passenger vehicles (cars, buses, campers…)

Martin

Martin

 

[StephDeLux]

I can't fault your desire to stay under 3500kg its just some of your facts that I don't agree with, for example from viapass.be Some other specific categories are exempt as well like passenger vehicles (cars, buses, campers…)

Martin

Martin

Yeah, I see we disagree What I think is that Belgian authorities will have a legal-based interpretation of what a passenger car is, meaning they will refer to what is written on the registration (grey card). In Luxembourg, it will be registered as a "utilitaire", meaning a small lorry. And that will be written on the registration document.

 

[funflair]

Yeah, I see we disagree What I think is that Belgian authorities will have a legal-based interpretation of what a passenger car is, meaning they will refer to what is written on the registration (grey card). In Luxembourg, it will be registered as a "utilitaire", meaning a small lorry. And that will be written on the registration document.

I don't know about registration in Luxembourg but our van is registered as a Private HGV with the European vehicle Category M1 so for carrying passengers not goods.

Anyway stay under 3500kg and it sounds like you will be OK.

Martin

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