Leisure & Starter battery not seperated?

[Jack TGA]

When I turn off my 12v at the control panel, I can still charge my phone at all the usb points in my van.
1. Does this mean I am running down my starter battery when I'm charging my phone and the 12v is turned off?
2. If I turn the 12v on and charge my phone, should the usb sockets then automatically switch to drawing charge from the leisure battery?
3. I ask because I have had the 12v system all week, been stationary, and been using the usb sockets heavily. I have solar and it has been sunny. But now my leasure battery is fully charged, but the starter battery is dead.

 

[Jev88]

Middle switch chooses which battery powers 12v circuit .

If that usb adaptor is in dashboard it usually takes power from Engine battery as was part of the original van before MH conversion.

 

[pappajohn]

Two things.....
1...if the battery rocker switch (middle rocker switch) has always been in the down position you have been using the starter battery for everything.....it should be in the up position.
2...the USB adaptor appears to be in a dashboard cig lighter socket powered from the starter battery which makes the rocker switch redundant in this instance.

Rocker switch.....up is hab battery, down is starter battery, center usually allows the charger to act as a power supply independent of either battery but in the center position it won't charge either battery.

 

[Spriddler]

When I turn off my 12v at the control panel, I can still charge my phone at all the usb points in my van.

Cig lighter sockets which are part of the standard Transit base vehicle will have been wired to the starter battery because when the base vehicle was constructed at the Ford factory as a commercial vehicle it wouldn't have had a leisure battery.

1. Does this mean I am running down my starter battery when I'm charging my phone and the 12v is turned off?

Yes, if the charging sockets in use are part of the standard base vehicle accessories as shown in the dashboard one in your photo. The 12v selector switch normally only controls 12v items in the hab area (water pump, fridge control panel, 12v lighting etc). I.e. not the base vehicle's electrics.

2. If I turn the 12v on and charge my phone, should the usb sockets then automatically switch to drawing charge from the leisure battery?

Most likely only if the USB power sockets are later additions by the m/h builder. The base vehicle cig lighter will continue to be powered from the starter battery regardless of 12v selection for the hab power..

3. I ask because I have had the 12v system all week, been stationary, and been using the usb sockets heavily. I have solar and it has been sunny. But now my leasure battery is fully charged, but the starter battery is dead.

Probably because the solar isn't charging the starter battery.

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The above are the most likely scenarios but that's not to say the circuitry and wiring configuration hasn't been modifed at some point.

 

[Jack TGA]

Two things.....
1...if the battery rocker switch (middle rocker switch) has always been in the down position you have been using the starter battery for everything.....it should be in the up position.
2...the USB adaptor appears to be in a dashboard cig lighter socket powered from the starter battery which makes the rocker switch redundant in this instance.

Rocker switch.....up is hab battery, down is starter battery, center usually allows the charger to act as a power supply independent of either battery but in the center position it won't charge either battery.

Thanks for your reply.

1. None of those switches lock into any position. I believe all of the switches are just indicators. So the middle switch, when pressed down merely indicates the starter battery power level by red amber green. When pressed up it indicates the leisure battery power. (See new attached image of the manual)
2. That is in the cigarette lighter switch so that is probably why the starter battery has run down? But I have been using that socket daily for weeks without starting the engine and there has never been a problem starting the van.
3. When I got the van, I got the dealer to fit a usb in the bed area at the back and that also still works when the 12v is turned off at the panel.

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[Jack TGA]

Middle switch chooses which battery powers 12v circuit .

If that usb adaptor is in dashboard it usually takes power from Engine battery as was part of the original van before MH conversion.

Please see my reply to papajohn. The manual doesn't seem to agree with what you are saying.

 

[pappajohn]

None of those switches lock into any position

Some do, some don't.

 

[pappajohn]

When I got the van, I got the dealer to fit a usb in the bed area at the back and that also still works when the 12v is turned off at the panel.

Wired direct to hab battery rather than control panel.

 

[Jack TGA]

Cig lighter sockets which are part of the standard Transit base vehicle will have been wired to the starter battery because when the base vehicle was constructed at the Ford factory as a commercial vehicle it wouldn't have had a leisure battery.

Yes, if the charging sockets in use are part of the standard base vehicle accessories as shown in the dashboard one in your photo. The 12v selector switch normally only controls 12v items in the hab area (water pump, fridge control panel, 12v lighting etc). I.e. not the base vehicle's electrics.

Most likely only if the USB power sockets are later additions by the m/h builder. The base vehicle cig lighter will continue to be powered from the starter battery regardless of 12v selection for the hab power..

Probably because the solar isn't charging the starter battery.

-------------
The above are the most likely scenarios but that's not to say the circuitry and wiring configuration hasn't been modifed at some point.

There is an extra usb point next to the bed in the back. I got this added by the dealer when I bought the van and that still works when the 12v is off. Does that suggest anything?
I have been using that cigarette lighter daily for weeks at a time for phone and tablet without starting the motor and it has been ok. Although this week was the first time I used a laptop off it...

Since the starter battery is completely run down, if I manage to get it jumped or charged, will it be knackered? Will I need to buy a new one?

 

[Jack TGA]

Some do, some don't.

Since the starter battery is completely run down, if I manage to get it jumped or charged, will it be knackered? Will I need to buy a new one?

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[Spriddler]

3. When I got the van, I got the dealer to fit a usb in the bed area at the back and that also still works when the 12v is turned off at the panel.

It has been wired direct to one of the batteries (prob the leisure) and not through the panel switch. Hopefully with a fuse.

 

[Spriddler]

Since the starter battery is completely run down, if I manage to get it jumped or charged, will it be knackered? Will I need to buy a new one?

Possibly but not possible to say from here. You'll need to charge it and see or get it checked with a load test at a garage.
If you jump start the engine it will take a couple of hours running to put a half-decent charge into the starter battery. A mains charger is your best bet to recharge it.

 

[Jack TGA]

It has been wired direct to one of the batteries (prob the leisure) and not through the panel switch. Hopefully with a fuse.

Can I jump the starter by directly connecting to the battery under the seat? (I tried using the jump points under the bonnet and it didn't work - the dash lights didn't even come on)

 

[Spriddler]

Can I jump the starter by directly connecting to the battery under the seat?

In your earlier photo the two batteries are close to and next to each other so yes, it should be simple enough but you must make sure that no part of the jump lead clips touch the adjacent metalwork.

(I tried using the jump points under the bonnet and it didn't work - the dash lights didn't even come on)

Not sure why that should be because if you connected the leisure battery to the correct under bonnet jump points correctly the dash lights should come on unless a fuse is blown or you didn't get good connections to the jump points or donor battery.
A very duff starter battery could be soaking up the leisure battery output but I would at lest expect the dash lights to come on.
After connecting the donor battery wait for 5 mins before attempting to start the engine.
I think we've gone as far as possible with the info available as there are several other unknown variables/possibilities.

 

[pappajohn]

Can I jump the starter by directly connecting to the battery under the seat? (I tried using the jump points under the bonnet and it didn't work - the dash lights didn't even come on)

I'm confused with this.....
You put a jump lead to the remote jump post under the bonnet and the other lead to a good earth....
Where did you connect the other end of the two jump leads?

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[IRHP]

In stead of guessing prove it by disconnecting the batteries at the terminals. See what still works. You never know how someone has wired things up.

 

[vjktpd]

I have fitted an additional victron battery balancer to keep my leisure batteries and starter battery in balance.
Low cost fix that gives peace of mind.
In your case i think all the previous answers re the switch positions have covered it.

 

[autorouter]

There is an extra usb point next to the bed in the back. I got this added by the dealer when I bought the van and that still works when the 12v is off. Does that suggest anything?

It doesn't definitely prove which battery is powering it. It could be wired direct from the leisure battery, with an inline fuse somewhere. Some circuits such as the fridge control board, electric step and frost protection valve are usually wired so that they aren't turned off by the 12V power switch on the control panel.

There should be a big fuse very near the leisure battery. You could temporarily pull out that fuse to see if the USB point, or any other sockets, still work or not.

 

[Jack TGA]

I'm confused with this.....
You put a jump lead to the remote jump post under the bonnet and the other lead to a good earth....
Where did you connect the other end of the two jump leads?

A friend's car battery, then started their engine.

 

[Jack TGA]

RESOLUTION: I put the negative jump lead on a better earth point and ran my friend's car engine for longer, which got enough juice into my starter battery to start then went for a 20 mile drive. Five restarts later it's ok for now. Time will tell if the battery holds power. I think the problem was running a laptop off the cigarette lighter for hours at a time over several days. I didn't realize the cigarette lighter was on the starter battery and anyway I also thought the solar would charge both batteries Lesson learned.

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[vjktpd]

Votronic Standby Charger 12V https://amzn.eu/d/aejKx4e

 

[vjktpd]

I have fitted an additional victron battery balancer to keep my leisure batteries and starter battery in balance.
Low cost fix that gives peace of mind.
In your case i think all the previous answers re the switch positions have covered it.

Correction it’s a Victron.

Votronic Standby Charger 12V https://amzn.eu/d/aejKx4e

 

[vjktpd]

Correction it’s a Victron.

Votronic Standby Charger 12V https://amzn.eu/d/aejKx4e

Votronic not Victron.. brain freeze

 

[gus-lopez]

Cig lighter sockets which are part of the standard Transit base vehicle will have been wired to the starter battery because when the base vehicle was constructed at the Ford factory as a commercial vehicle it wouldn't have had a leisure battery.

Unfortunately with some transit vans the base vehicle has 2 x batteries with the rear battery for starting the vehicle & the front battery ( both under the seat) for supplying all accessories.

For some reason the transit of that age does not like any attempt at jump starting using the under bonnet connections.