Is my leisure battery ok? (1 Viewer)

[acropolis22]

This seems to confirm your battery is not fully charged and the voltage your seeing during daylight is from your solar panel and as soon as it gets dark your seeing the battery voltage without any solar support. You do not say how much solar you have and I suspect its not enough to fully charge your battery bank. As has already been advised, get onto hook up asap and make sure your battery gets a full charge. You, like most of us learn from these experiences and will overcome these problems. Remember you can never have too much solar.
When you get home you might want to consider doing a test on your battery to see how much capacity is left. According to aandacaravans and Alpha batteries once a leisure battery has lost 20% of its capacity it is regarded as being at its End of Life status. I don't agree with that but I'm just and end user like your good self.
So, How does one do a capacity test on their leisure battery ?
Here is a suggestion by autorouter which I have recently tried and you may want to consider.
1. Fully charge the battery, leave it to settle for a couple of hours.
2. Attach a load that draws an amps value of Capacity/20. (for example for a 100Ah battery, 100/20 = 5A.
3. Run the load for 5 hours. The amp-hours taken from the battery is Amps x 5 hours. (for the same example, 5 x 5 = 25Ah. For a brand new battery this would be 25% of the capacity, so it should be down to the 75% level.
4. Let the battery settle for a couple of hours
5. Measure the voltage.
6. Use this voltage, referring to the battery charge/voltage scale (In Lenny HB's post #32) to estimate what percentage charge is left in the battery. For this example, let's suppose it is 12.28V. If it's a Sealed Lead-acid type, that represents a level of 60%. Since you drew 25% of the label capacity, you would expect the voltage to be at the 75% level on the charge/voltage scale. However because the battery has aged, it is now at the lower level of 60%.

7. If the battery is actually at 60% when you expect it to be 75%, its capacity when full is
(60 / 75) x 100 = 80% of the original capacity.

So the battery capacity has reduced due to aging, and is now only 80% of its original capacity .

I forgot to add the charge chart and here it is.

Battery Voltage Chart
Volts	%
12.7	100
12.5	90
12.42	80
12.32	70
12.2	60
12.06	50
11.9	40
11.79	30
11.58	20
11.31	10
10.5	0

Thanks, that's really useful. I'm more and more thinking the battery has had it. You say that you feel the battery is not fully charged. I can add some more information here. Prior to this trip the moho had been in open air storage. Every time I visit, the control panel voltage shows maximum reading, 13.5V. If this is the solar charging, and this has been going on for several weeks with no significant current draw, surely the battery would have been fully charged? And so I conclude that the swift drop in voltage after dark indicates that the battery isn't taking/holding charge?

The solar panel came with the moho. I think it's an OEM component, and I think it's around 100W, which is what Pilote offer as an option.

 

[PhilandMena]

A 100 W Solar Panel will struggle to keep a battery bank of 180 Ah fully charged and what you might have been seeing on your storage visits was the power coming from the Solar panel and not the battery. Also if you Soler Panel regulator is also looking after your cab battery there will be even less current going into your habitation battery. If you do decide to change your battery , add more Solar at the same time otherwise you will be in the same situation again. If you get a total of 250 W of Solar this should be OK unless you want to run a sizable inverter and in that case you would need more.

 

[acropolis22]

Do you know what the current drain was? Ours drops continuously during the night as there is a small ½ amp load 80ah battery drops by about 0.1v. You can see it dropping steeper on the left hand side when the TV is on (total load about 2a)

View attachment 548501

No, I have no way to measure the current drain. But I can't see how a voltage drop from 12.7 to 12.2 in four hours can be anything but a dodgy battery?

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

An unknown draw/leak on the battery might do it.
Mike.

 

[acropolis22]

A 100 W Solar Panel will struggle to keep a battery bank of 180 Ah fully charged and what you might have been seeing on your storage visits was the power coming from the Solar panel and not the battery. Also if you Soler Panel regulator is also looking after your cab battery there will be even less current going into your habitation battery. If you do decide to change your battery , add more Solar at the same time otherwise you will be in the same situation again. If you get a total of 250 W of Solar this should be OK unless you want to run a sizable inverter and in that case you would need more.

Sounds reasonable. I will try to get the battery tested somehow, but it doesn't look good. Wish me luck convincing the dealer it should have been picked up at PDI...... (Used moho).

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[PhilandMena]

Sounds reasonable. I will try to get the battery tested somehow, but it doesn't look good. Wish me luck convincing the dealer it should have been picked up at PDI...... (Used moho).

Do you know how old the battery is ? and how it has been used in the past ? I would not write it off just yet as I believe you may be making assumptions about how much it is charged up before dropping to 12.2 V. You say its dropping from 12.7 to 12.2 in 4 hours but this reading of 12.7 could be as a result of the solar panel input and the battery not rested to establish its true voltage, so could be lower than 12.7. I would wait until you can fully charge the battery and I would advise at least 24hrs on a good charger before establishing its true state. If it is a relatively new battery and has not been cycled too many times and allowed to go flat, there is no reason why it cant be fully recovered with a good charger. You have nothing to loose. The dealer will never accept responsibility for a used battery.

 

[acropolis22]

Do you know how old the battery is ? and how it has been used in the past ? I would not write it off just yet as I believe you may be making assumptions about how much it is charged up before dropping to 12.2 V. You say its dropping from 12.7 to 12.2 in 4 hours but this reading of 12.7 could be as a result of the solar panel input and the battery not rested to establish its true voltage, so could be lower than 12.7. I would wait until you can fully charge the battery and I would advise at least 24hrs on a good charger before establishing its true state. If it is a relatively new battery and has not been cycled too many times and allowed to go flat, there is no reason why it cant be fully recovered with a good charger. You have nothing to loose. The dealer will never accept responsibility for a used battery.

Yeah, all good points. I will definitely be testing it. As far as I know it's the original battery fitted to the van from new. Van first registered April 2017. So I'm not hopeful. Van had done 15000 in 4 years when we bought it, so I don't suppose the battery had been in regular use?

 

[PhilandMena]

Well its not new and could be on its way out depending on how its been used in the past. Best of luck going forward, at least you now have a plan to resolve this issue.

 

[acropolis22]

Yup, I do have a plan now, thanks to you and all the other Funsters who contributed answers. Many thanks to all!

 

[wfdTamar]

I‘d consider a battery monitor that works from a shunt (which I think the one mentioned earlier is, though there are far cheaper ones). This a metal bar (often with some electronics) that attaches to the battery. It’s a far more accurate way of getting star of charge (SOC) than just voltage. You need to turn your solar off to get a better voltage reading otherwise you’re just seeing the solar charging it. There ideally would be a switch or fuse between solar and controller to turn it off.

Your Schaudt solar controller (oldish model) may not have a charging profile suitable for AGM batteries, though it may connect to your vans electric box which may do. If you upgrade the solar, get a more modern controller. As someone else said it should be charging in the mid14 volt range when your battery needs a lot of charge and mid 13 volt range when it’s near full (exact voltages depend on battery type and even model). If you need to replace your battery I’d consider a different type of battery (not AGM). If you can’t spring for lithium (and the chargers it needs), then lead carbon seems a good option. More solar wouldn’t hurt.

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[TonyEmm]

First night away without hook-up for some time. Leisure battery showing 13.5V when we pitched up, in the morning showing 12.2V. Battery is 180Ah. Just used lights, water pump, router, and presumably some heater fan in the night. Is this normal?

13.5v is an unsustainable voltage, that’s the residual ‘float charge’ when it’s just come off charge! 12,8v is fully charged… filament bulbs as opposed to LED’s will clobber it, as will anything with a heating element in it. 12.2v is still useable, though low. As long as it recharges and recovers ok, no worries!

 

[acropolis22]

I‘d consider a battery monitor that works from a shunt (which I think the one mentioned earlier is, though there are far cheaper ones). This a metal bar (often with some electronics) that attaches to the battery. It’s a far more accurate way of getting star of charge (SOC) than just voltage. You need to turn your solar off to get a better voltage reading otherwise you’re just seeing the solar charging it. There ideally would be a switch or fuse between solar and controller to turn it off.

Your Schaudt solar controller (oldish model) may not have a charging profile suitable for AGM batteries, though it may connect to your vans electric box which may do. If you upgrade the solar, get a more modern controller. As someone else said it should be charging in the mid14 volt range when your battery needs a lot of charge and mid 13 volt range when it’s near full (exact voltages depend on battery type and even model). If you need to replace your battery I’d consider a different type of battery (not AGM). If you can’t spring for lithium (and the chargers it needs), then lead carbon seems a good option. More solar wouldn’t hurt.

Yes, I'm investigating all those points. I feel a visit to Vanbitz coming on. . What's your thinking on battery type? Certainly can't afford lithium.

 

[acropolis22]

13.5v is an unsustainable voltage, that’s the residual ‘float charge’ when it’s just come off charge! 12,8v is fully charged… filament bulbs as opposed to LED’s will clobber it, as will anything with a heating element in it. 12.2v is still useable, though low. As long as it recharges and recovers ok, no worries!

Thanks, I do appreciate the point about floating charge, now that it's been explained. Did you see my other post where I stated that the voltage reading had dropped from 12.7V to 12.2V in four hours once the sun had disappeared. Most of our lights are LED. Nothing much else of significance was drawing current. Doesn't this seem dodgy to you? Our battery is 180Ah.

 

[wfdTamar]

It’d also be worth checking the charging coming through from the alternator. You would think that should be able to fully recharge the battery if you drive for a while. No good if you stay put for multiple days though. If you replace battery I’d also consider what capacity you get. Once you have a proper battery monitor you can see exactly how much power each device uses, so get a better idea of what your needs are. Then match battery capacity to that and the solar capacity to recharge that amount. You may find something like a 120Ah works better. If you’re talking to Vanbitz they’ll have more of an idea.

As a rough guide a 2 to 1 ratio is nice. 2 of solar watts to 1 of battery Ah. Example - 200 watts panels to 100 Ah battery. With your 180Ah you could put on 1 domestic 360 watt panel. Or if the current panel is 100 watts and working ok add 2 more 100 watt ones. Not good to mismatch panels though.

Battery Charging Faults - Schaudt Elektroblock, Reich E-Box, Calira, CBE, Arsilicii and Nordelettronica Battery Chargers supplied and Repaired

Motorhome/Caravan Battery charger Repairs and sales. We specialise in Calira, Burstner/Reich E-box, Schaudt Elektroblock, CBE, Toptron, Arsilicii and Nordelettronica Battery chargers. We repair Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 99, EBL 100, EBL 101, EBL 108, EBL 109, EBL 164, EBL 208, EBL 220, EBL 225...

www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

Everyone has their favoured battery type. Read the site above about AGM and the page about battery type (it is a bit old now so doesn’t consider newer types). They’re not keen on AGM. I think a lot of what they say applies to you - possibly no AGM charging profile, possibly oversized battery, possibly alternator charging weakness.

For my standard leisure battery purchase in 2019 I got a Yuasa EFB 100Ah which seems fine. In retrospect I would’ve gone for a gel battery to be able to discharge is down more as I was a little limited on a string of bad weather days (200 watts solar and 28” tv).

For summer 2020 I was all set to get the lead carbon battery below before Covid hit. Although this is AGM it’s not like conventional ones. Sounds like it solves the problems they have and good specs. I was going to use it only for a compressor fridge, but it would make a good leisure battery.

I should add I’m no expert, just like to do my research

12v 100AH Leoch Pure AGM Lead Carbon PLH+ C100 Deep Cycle Leisure Battery NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries

12V 100Ah Ultra Deep Cycle battery for multiple applications – from Leoch’s Pure Lead Carbon series. Features • Pure Lead […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

 

[acropolis22]

It’d also be worth checking the charging coming through from the alternator. You would think that should be able to fully recharge the battery if you drive for a while. No good if you stay put for multiple days though. If you replace battery I’d also consider what capacity you get. Once you have a proper battery monitor you can see exactly how much power each device uses, so get a better idea of what your needs are. Then match battery capacity to that and the solar capacity to recharge that amount. You may find something like a 120Ah works better. If you’re talking to Vanbitz they’ll have more of an idea.

As a rough guide a 2 to 1 ratio is nice. 2 of solar watts to 1 of battery Ah. Example - 200 watts panels to 100 Ah battery. With your 180Ah you could put on 1 domestic 360 watt panel. Or if the current panel is 100 watts and working ok add 2 more 100 watt ones. Not good to mismatch panels though.

Battery Charging Faults - Schaudt Elektroblock, Reich E-Box, Calira, CBE, Arsilicii and Nordelettronica Battery Chargers supplied and Repaired

Motorhome/Caravan Battery charger Repairs and sales. We specialise in Calira, Burstner/Reich E-box, Schaudt Elektroblock, CBE, Toptron, Arsilicii and Nordelettronica Battery chargers. We repair Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 99, EBL 100, EBL 101, EBL 108, EBL 109, EBL 164, EBL 208, EBL 220, EBL 225...

www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

Everyone has their favoured battery type. Read the site above about AGM and the page about battery type (it is a bit old now so doesn’t consider newer types). They’re not keen on AGM. I think a lot of what they say applies to you - possibly no AGM charging profile, possibly oversized battery, possibly alternator charging weakness.

For my standard leisure battery purchase in 2019 I got a Yuasa EFB 100Ah which seems fine. In retrospect I would’ve gone for a gel battery to be able to discharge is down more as I was a little limited on a string of bad weather days (200 watts solar and 28” tv).

For summer 2020 I was all set to get the lead carbon battery below before Covid hit. Although this is AGM it’s not like conventional ones. Sounds like it solves the problems they have and good specs. I was going to use it only for a compressor fridge, but it would make a good leisure battery.

I should add I’m no expert, just like to do my research

12v 100AH Leoch Pure AGM Lead Carbon PLH+ C100 Deep Cycle Leisure Battery NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries

12V 100Ah Ultra Deep Cycle battery for multiple applications – from Leoch’s Pure Lead Carbon series. Features • Pure Lead […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

Loads to be thinking about. This will keep me busy for some time... Thanks for your input.

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