Invertors

[Otter Spotter]

What are the practical differences between Pure Sine wave, Soft start modified sine wave and the cheap power invertors?
can I safely use a soft start modified sine wave invertor to power my laptop and charge iPads and mobile phones?

 

[olley]

I have an 1800watt Sterling modified sine wave fitted in the RV since around 2006 charges everything I have ever plugged in.

 

[PeteH]

I ran a Ring, 3Kw, first generation Inverter Mod sine wave. from 2006 to 2012, when I sold The R-V. Despite all the grim warnings. we ran the 32" T-V, the Laptop, SWMBO`s Hair dryer and many other items. Along with a Nebulliser unit. I cannot speak for the T-V it went with the R-V. But all the other items are still working.

 

[LesW]

can I safely use a soft start modified sine wave invertor to power my laptop and charge iPads and mobile phones?

I do all that without an inverter.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I do all that without an inverter.

How off grid?

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[tonka]

I cant see that it makes any sense to use one for the items you mention.

Ipads and phones you just use an adapter into the 12v cigarette / Hella socket. Then plug the USB lead into that.

Laptop, there are converters that will go from your 12v supply up to laptop voltage ie 18v..

Using an Inverter and mains adaptors means you convert from 12vdc up to mains and then back down to 5v (USB for tablet / phone) and same for laptop. In effect useing more power as the inverter itself will consume some power..

I do have a 1100w inverter but its only used for 2 things. Wifes hairdryer every other day for 10 mins and we have a small 1000w air fryer so my grandson can have his crispy french fries (dont ask..)..


Amazon product ASIN B0777LVQPF

 

[LesW]

How off grid?

100w solar panel, 100ah battery, and widely available 12v adapter chargers for various appliances.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I cant see that it makes any sense to use one for the items you mention.

Ipads and phones you just use an adapter into the 12v cigarette / Hella socket. Then plug the USB lead into that.

Laptop, there are converters that will go from your 12v supply up to laptop voltage ie 18v..

Using an Inverter and mains adaptors means you convert from 12vdc up to mains and then back down to 5v (USB for tablet / phone) and same for laptop. In effect useing more power as the inverter itself will consume some power..

I do have a 1100w inverter but its only used for 2 things. Wifes hairdryer every other day for 10 mins and we have a small 1000w air fryer so my grandson can have his crispy french fries (dont ask..)..


Amazon product ASIN B0777LVQPF

agreed I don’t know what I was thinking, IPad and mobiles yes through usb sockets using habitation battery, but Laptop is important also Canon camera battery chargers via 3 pin plugs

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Devices that are charged from a USB lead, just get an adapter for the standard cigarette scoket type 12V. More efficient than trying an inverter to upscale 12V AC to 230V DC and then still needing a to reconvert the 230V back to the USB.

Laptops can be more challenging. A simple lappy may be able to run off a 12V to 19.5V step up converter. But most of the Cigarette type sockets are rated at 10A. My laptop is a bit more power hungry with a charger of 9.23A at 19.5V, which would be over 14A at 12V, more than that socket could supply.

Of course there are other needs for an inverter where you might not get a suitable 12V converter.

Pure Sine Wave most accurately replicates mains power electricity so sensitive electronics will be safe with this. Unfortunately such inverters are usually the most expensive. Other types of inverter may work, or may not and may fry your electronics. You won't know until you try it.

 

[Jim]

I have a Victron Inverter Charger, but it's not used for anything mentioned in this thread, for that I use 12v. 12v for Macbooks, cameras, phones, ect. In fact the inverter is only on for my hair dryer.

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[the1andonly]

As others have said all my electronics is charged via 12V usb dc-dc for laptop. 800w msw inverter for 24v charger hand held gtech hoover, washing machine and iron. ( obviously last 3 once in a blue moon).

 

[PeteH]

Slightly "off topic". But I recently ran an experiment. I put the slow cooker on using an inverter, switched the EHU off so all I had where the batteries and solar. Watching the "dials" I was pleased to see that the solar was actually keeping the battery level stable. So in effect we where cooking with the sun.

 

[mitzimad]

electric tooth brushes need pure wave ask Armytwowheels

 

[Wombles]

electric tooth brushes need pure wave ask Armytwowheels

This works for electric toothbrushes https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...aun-electric-toothbrushes-£4-08.166892/page-2

 

[autorouter]

If you definitely need an inverter, for your camera battery charger for example, then I think it's better to get the lowest power one that works. For example a 100W or 150W inverter. You may find that a small pure sine wave inverter is not very expensive.

High power inverters are not very efficient. A 2000W inverter may be advertised as 95% efficient, which means it wastes 100 watts when outputting 2000W. However you'll probably find it wastes about 50 watts when powering a 10 watt device, and that's extremely inefficient. Better to use a small inverter for low-power devices.

You could run a 100W or150W inverter from a cigarette-lighter socket,especially if it was not using the full 150W power output. Anything bigger would need wiring direct to the battery. Through a fuse, of course.

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[Pausim]

Found this on a solar suppliers site.

Disadvantages of modified sine inverter:

• Additional electrical noise may be produced, showing up as a buzz in some audio equipment and from some transformers
• Some electric motors and transformers run hotter and draw a bit more power
• Digital clock and timing circuits can be fooled, sometimes counting double-time
• In rare cases, power supplies in sensitive electronic equipment can be damaged.

 

[Otter Spotter]

The reason for the question is that I have a Dell laptop with mains charger Canon camera battery charger, radio scanner for aircraft and electric tooth brush, Electric Kettle.
I have fitted in the van 160w solar panel, Mercury 2500w soft start modified sine wave invertor. Plenty of usb sockets and 2 cigarette sockets(only work with ignition on)
I don’t want to damage any of the equipment so want to know safest way of charging/using the bits of kit if ‘Off Grid’ currently I have only run the Kettle off the invertor nothing else.
thanks for your replies so far, do I ditch the Mercury invertor and get smaller pure sine wave or am I ok with current kit?

 

[Richard n Ann]

The reason for the question is that I have a Dell laptop with mains charger Canon camera battery charger, radio scanner for aircraft and electric tooth brush, Electric Kettle.
I have fitted in the van 160w solar panel, Mercury 2500w soft start modified sine wave invertor. Plenty of usb sockets and 2 cigarette sockets(only work with ignition on)
I don’t want to damage any of the equipment so want to know safest way of charging/using the bits of kit if ‘Off Grid’ currently I have only run the Kettle off the invertor nothing else.
thanks for your replies so far, do I ditch the Mercury invertor and get smaller pure sine wave or am I ok with current kit?

Get rid of the kettle and use a gas. Then buy a small PSW inverter for everything else. The compact Studer AJ275 has a 0.2amp standby current
That's what I'd do anyway.

 

[DBK]

The reason for the question is that I have a Dell laptop with mains charger Canon camera battery charger, radio scanner for aircraft and electric tooth brush, Electric Kettle.
I have fitted in the van 160w solar panel, Mercury 2500w soft start modified sine wave invertor. Plenty of usb sockets and 2 cigarette sockets(only work with ignition on)
I don’t want to damage any of the equipment so want to know safest way of charging/using the bits of kit if ‘Off Grid’ currently I have only run the Kettle off the invertor nothing else.
thanks for your replies so far, do I ditch the Mercury invertor and get smaller pure sine wave or am I ok with current kit?

No one can give you a definitive answer if it is safe. You will only find out by trying - which might prove expensive.

I fitted a cheapish 1500W pure sine wave inverter, it was around £130 from memory and it hasn't damaged any coffee machine, vacuums, tooth brushes or cameras yet. If you don't need that sort of power a smaller pure sine inverter would be the best and safest option.

 

[PeteH]

As per Post #3. Most of the kit we used back then is still in working order. The Probable "best" aproach might be a Full "pure sinewave" inverter. A viable alternative could be one or 2 smaller and by definition cheaper dedicated PSW devices. eg; I currenty have a PSW device powering the sky "Q" box. Because I was warned by the sky engineer about not using a Modified SW one. His take was that it would almost certainly cause interferance and if it did damage the "box" I would be billed for it!. This PSW inverter 150W cost me less than £30 on Amazon.

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[peterc10]

What are the practical differences between Pure Sine wave, Soft start modified sine wave and the cheap power invertors?
can I safely use a soft start modified sine wave invertor to power my laptop and charge iPads and mobile phones?

Why use an inverter at all for electronic items given that they all operate on low voltage DC? It means you are stepping up low voltage DC to high voltage AC and then stepping it down again to low voltage DC. That is very inefficient.

Instead use 12v adapters. USB is almost universal now for the phones and tablets and you can get 12v adapters to suit nearly all laptops.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Why use an inverter at all for electronic items

Compatibility is the answer. Why buy a dedicated 12v adaptor for every device when everything uses mains and comes with a free mains power supply?

 

[cmcardle75]

Another vote for getting 12V adapters for everything. And a non-electric kettle!

Inverters are noisy, unreliable (if you buy cheap ones) and relatively inefficient (if they weren't they wouldn't need a noisy fan).

Just add a pile of 12V sockets off your leisure battery.

 

[autorouter]

Since you already have the 2500W inverter, you can use it for high-power items like the kettle, hair dryer, slowcooker, etc. Switch it off when not actually in use, to avoid wasting power due to the no-load drain.

For low-power use over many hours, I'd suggest in addition a small 150W PSW inverter for anything that you can't get a 12V DC-DC adapter for.

Just add a pile of 12V sockets off your leisure battery.

That's the best advice so far.

 

[Pausim]

A 12v tooth brush adapter has to convert the DC current back to some form of sine wave because it uses inductive charging. I use gas for the kettle and have a smaller pure sine wave inverter with bluetooth so that I can turn it on and off from my phone or pad. Still has a very small quiescent load but not enough to worry about.

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[bigtwin]

Slightly "off topic". But I recently ran an experiment. I put the slow cooker on using an inverter, switched the EHU off so all I had where the batteries and solar. Watching the "dials" I was pleased to see that the solar was actually keeping the battery level stable. So in effect we where cooking with the sun.

Sounds like you have it sussed and, as some might say, are ‘cooking on gas’.

electric tooth brushes need pure wave ask Armytwowheels

Been there! I’d understood my little 300W inverter was PSW, turns out it wasn’t.

Ian

 

[PeteH]

I can run them all off my 2200W "inverter" Generator Though.

Tin hat donned, awaiting incoming.

 

[peterc10]

Compatibility is the answer. Why buy a dedicated 12v adaptor for every device when everything uses mains and comes with a free mains power supply?

You do not need a "dedicated 12v adaptor for every device". As I said before most smaller items, phones, ipad, dash cams, mifis, speakers, headphones etc run off or are charged by the standard USB interface now. You can even get a USB charger for your Electric toothbrush. I have only bought two dedicated adaptors, for the laptop and shaver, and they were cheap. The rest use USB or, like the TV and Dyson, came with their own dedicated 12v adaptor that was both smaller and lighter than the 240v adaptors that they also came with. Still using the same "free" electricity, just doing it much more efficiently and cheaper to buy the kit to do it. My cheapie 2000W modified sine wave inverter is used for the only appliance that cannot be run on 12v or gas, the wife's hairdryer.

 

[cmcardle75]

Compatibility is the answer. Why buy a dedicated 12v adaptor for every device when everything uses mains and comes with a free mains power supply?

Because inverters will run your batteries down unnecessarily and/or be very noisy.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Because inverters will run your batteries down unnecessarily and/or be very noisy.

My little 275w one is silent. And what's 0.2 amps when your solar makes 9 amps. I just think with an inverter you buy once and it works with everything, even phones if your USB socket breaks.
Also my hair trammers are mains only.
Rechargeable vacuum cleaner is mains only. I suppose it depends on what you use to an extent.

I could even reconfigure it to run the fridge if the 12v element fails (only with engine running of course) how handy is that

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