Implications Of Going Over 3500kg

stevec

stevec

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Sep 24, 2013
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28,255
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Carthago A class
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Since 2014
In our search for a next van to tick as many boxes as possible, we found one locally which seems to tick more than most. However it has a low payload of 345kg. The dealer has said the 3500kg max weight can be uprated to 3650 with no issues. What will this mean as far as restrictions are concerned apart from the licensing issues. This is for a Pilote P680 LPR. Breakdown cover? Speeds? Places I can't go?
 
Speed - no.
Places you can't go - you may find the odd bridge with a 3.5t limit but nothing else should affect you. I believe that in France the 3.5t signs you see in a lot of villages are aimed at goods vehicles not camping cars.
Road tax - cheaper
Breakdown cover - depends who you are with at the moment but worst case is that you may need to change providers

What chassis is it on? It may be worth talking to someone like SVTech to see if it can go higher than 3650. If you're going to do it you may as well go as high as you can.
 
By going over 3,500 you will be subject to the lower national speed limits, ie 50mph on a single carriageway, 60 on a dual carriageway, and motorways are the same at 70mph. That is the only effect on speed, don't forget that the vehicle tax goes down to £165.
 
NickNic said:
That's incorrect actually. There is a weight point where the speed limits for motor caravans change but it's not 3.5t. It's 3.05t unladen.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
Click to expand...

So therefore, the van in question is limited to 50 and 60 mph whether it's upgraded or not.
Gross weights apply to speed limits in the EU generally however.

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my wife says the bigger it is the more you can take ...
 
jonandshell said:
So therefore, the van in question is limited to 50 and 60 mph whether it's upgraded or not.
Gross weights apply to speed limits in the EU generally however.
Click to expand...

I realised that after I had posted (y) I would imagine the vast majority of motorhomes are.

In France I stick to the lower one anyway. 130 is a bit much for the MH (y)
 
There's also the license issue too...
I think it's the C1 category, which you get from grandfather rights if you passed your test before 1997, that allows over 3500kg
 
NickNic said:
That's incorrect actually. There is a weight point where the speed limits for motor caravans change but it's not 3.5t. It's 3.05t unladen.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
Click to expand...
I agree, but it always seems silly to me to use "unladen" weight.

And what exactly does that mean with a motorhome? Is it the weight the chassis unit was when it left Fiat? Or the weight when it left the converters? If it is the latter then the lower speed limit already applies to the OP's motorhome and all the others on a 3500kg GVW chassis with a payload less than 450kg.
 
In my case I've stuck with 3.5 because my wife has no C1 on her licence.
Truth is she will never drive it unless something prevents me from doing so, but at least she has the option.

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EssexBoy said:
There's also the license issue too...
I think it's the C1 category, which you get from grandfather rights if you passed your test before 1997, that allows over 3500kg
Click to expand...
only if your under 70. If you are over you have to apply separately for the higher weight. If your are diabetic or some other illness you will be required to get a doctor's certificate, if tablet controlled. If you have to inject ,it's possible they may refuse the licence
 
If you are tempted by a 3500kg max van with 345kg payload or any figure come to that, just be careful that this si not a figure for basic van from the factory and it has not all been used up with optional extras, solar,extra battery,sat dish etc etc.

Martin
 
As Funflair above, size only matters when your too small. Payload problems are far greater than size. We have only ever been turned away from 2 sites because of size in 5 years.
Driving a large van feels the same as 5,6,7 mtr vans.
Phil
 
gillnphil said:
As Funflair above, size only matters when your too small. Payload problems are far greater than size. We have only ever been turned away from 2 sites because of size in 5 years.
Driving a large van feels the same as 5,6,7 mtr vans.
Phil
Click to expand...

really?.........wanna race?:D
 
There is a point ,if your van is a standard 3.05tons then the paper exercise to lift its payload would not be spotted on the toll roads.you will just carry on paying the same lol.
 
treetops1 said:
There is a point ,if your van is a standard 3.05tons then the paper exercise to lift its payload would not be spotted on the toll roads.you will just carry on paying the same lol.
Click to expand...

I ythink you are right, presumably that is why the primary test for payment is height, over 3 metres class 3 some people chellenge this and get dropped to class 2 for us they come out with a tape measure and say No grosse, or something like that.

Martin
 
Just come back from France ,the auto machines have a payment slot for motorhomes all our tickets are Class 2 lol.
 
Just returned from France far more 3.5t restrictions than last year and next year you will have to pay on all German roads and there will be a difference in prices if over 3.5t. Manufacturers are going to be showing 3t vans with good payloads at nec in October
 
If you've got the license payload is king imo.
Nothing worse than paying all that dosh for a van that you can't put anything in so you can't use to its full potential.
Who cares about the speed limit it's not a bloody spots car.
My van is a 5 ton tag axle 25ft long running at 4750 payload aprox 1250kgs. At 58/59 on cruise control it does 25 mpg tolls are Class 2 cos under 3 metre high.
At 25 ft we can access 99 percent of places we want. Just returned from 6 weeks touring Europe mostly Italy no problems although in Tuscany you wouldn't want to be much bigger purely for pitch sizes.
Limiting yourself to 3500 kgs only makes sense if you have a license restriction.
Far too many vans sold to unsuspecting buyers that have virtually no payload once driver and passenger are on board that are not fit for use.
Be careful insist on a current weighbridge ticket before you buy.

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chockswahay said:
Norway has many toll roads, ferries and tunnels. In nearly every case the price for under 3.5t (and under 6m) is the same as a car.............. over this and the price can double, treble or more :eek::eek::eek:
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I was thinking about Norway, I will probably give it a miss or get a smaller van.
Phil
 
peterc10 said:
I agree, but it always seems silly to me to use "unladen" weight.

And what exactly does that mean with a motorhome? Is it the weight the chassis unit was when it left Fiat? Or the weight when it left the converters? If it is the latter then the lower speed limit already applies to the OP's motorhome and all the others on a 3500kg GVW chassis with a payload less than 450kg.
Click to expand...

Unladen weight means exactly that. It means the completed vehicle with no oil, petrol, water, coolant, camping gear, personal possessions etc. Most 3500kg motorhomes will be well below 3.05Te unladen, probably in the region of 2.7 - 2.8Te.
 
Poohbear said:
Unladen weight means exactly that. It means the completed vehicle with no oil, petrol, water, coolant, camping gear, personal possessions etc. Most 3500kg motorhomes will be well below 3.05Te unladen, probably in the region of 2.7 - 2.8Te.
Click to expand...
If that is the case then what is meant by the "completed vehicle"? Completed by Fiat (which is the name of the manufacturer on the V5C)? Or completed by the converter (who is not named at all on the V5C)? Or completed by the dealer who sells it and registers it after he has fitted the awning, fixed gas tank, and all the other extras the buyer wants? Because they are all different.

And I am not sure how the police would know if the answer was 1 or 3. I have only ever seen the converter's figures published, but even then how would the police get them? Seems almost impossible to police to me.

And, if the answer is either the second or third, I am not sure you are correct when saying most would be below the limit. If your figures are correct that would mean payloads of 700kg to 800kg, which, when I was looking at motorhomes to buy, was an almost unachievable dream if I wanted to stay at the 3,500kg maximum. My Adria has one of the largest payloads I have seen at 550kg, and most I looked at had payloads nearer to the OP's.

But maybe I was just looking at the wrong motorhomes, or wrong figures?
 
You're making the mistake of thinking that payload is simply the difference between the unladen weight and the MTPLM. However, payload is the difference between the MIRO and the MTPLM. The MIRO includes the driver, engine oil and coolant and 90% capacity of the fuel, water and gas tanks.
 
Poohbear said:
You're making the mistake of thinking that payload is simply the difference between the unladen weight and the MTPLM. However, payload is the difference between the MIRO and the MTPLM. The MIRO includes the driver, engine oil and coolant and 90% capacity of the fuel, water and gas tanks.
Click to expand...
Fine, I understand now.

But my original questions still aren't answered. What is the unladen weight defined as (I know what the others are supposed to be). Before or after the converter (who is not named on the V5C) has done their work? After the dealer has fitted the extras? Or even after I have added a few more extras myself? And how would the police know what any of these actually are given that they appear not to be readily available?

So what is classified as not being included in the unladen weight?

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