Hi I'm new 😁. Faulty solar. Controller?

[Savo]

I've been lurking for some time enjoying the useful info from this forum. We are a family of 5 and only use sites without ehu. I have 6 year old solar setup of Bosch 150w mono panel, cheap Chinese mppt controller and 2 x 110ah leisure batteries. We are enjoying nice weather on our 2nd week away, however I'm having problems.

The voltage dropped to below 12v a few nights ago and is slowly returning to 12.7v. Normally when the battery is charging I would see voltages of maybe 13.8, but this time the voltage is just slowly rising from 12v in the morning to maybe 12.7 at night. The display is showing 25 - 30 Watts most of the day with the odd high of maybe 55 in direct sun. Therefore I'm thinking the controller is just working like pwm. I always keep an eye on the controller and normally the volts would be over 13 on overcast days. We have had to limit the WiFi, ipads, phones, etc so as not to use too much battery.

I am thinking of first changing to a Victron SMART BlueSolar Charge Controller - 100/20a so that I can upgrade my solar panel at a later date. I like the reviews and that I can monitor voltages on my phone. Would I be better off with a smaller controller and then when I add a 2nd panel I could add a 2nd controller. Maybe I should go for the bigger controller and then buy 2 new panels eventually? . The 150w can struggle later in the year when we have less sunlight.

I realise I have waffled a bit here but any advice would be appreciated.

Andrew

 

[DumfriesDik]

Hi, not sure if you mean mppt?

I changed my cheap pwm for a Votronic which might work for you. It did for me!!

 

[DumfriesDik]

Sorry, I should have said Hello and Welcome!

 

[suavecarve]

A couple of questions.
Are teh batteries 6 years old ?
Do you use the batteries down to 50% regularly ?
Should those answers be yes to either or both then check your batteries which can be done by just charging with 240v for a few hours and seeing what voltage is attached.

Should buying a couple of batteries solve your current (sic) issue then upgrading your solar may or may not be necessary. If it is in your plans then give consideration to buying it altogether for a better deal if you know how much you need.

If having to buy batteries, you may want to give consideration to lithium battery instead of 2 replacement gels which may only cost a couple of hundred pounds more for a similar amount of available battery as 100 ah of lithium is about the equivalent of 200 ah of gel, only it recharges quicker and lighter and lasts a lot longer

 

[suavecarve]

Sorry, I should have said Hello and Welcome!

And so should I

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[Savo]

A couple of questions.
Are teh batteries 6 years old ?
Do you use the batteries down to 50% regularly ?
Should those answers be yes to either or both then check your batteries which can be done by just charging with 240v for a few hours and seeing what voltage is attached.

Should buying a couple of batteries solve your current (sic) issue then upgrading your solar may or may not be necessary. If it is in your plans then give consideration to buying it altogether for a better deal if you know how much you need.

If having to buy batteries, you may want to give consideration to lithium battery instead of 2 replacement gels which may only cost a couple of hundred pounds more for a similar amount of available battery as 100 ah of lithium is about the equivalent of 200 ah of gel, only it recharges quicker and lighter and lasts a lot longer

Thanks for that. I'd love to change the lot & upgrade to to 300w but sadly I just can't afford to do that at the moment. The batteries would normally remain pretty much fully charged and I would be banning charging of phones etc if the volts were to drop below 12.5. I bought the 2 batteries at the same time with the rest of the system and they are old and passed their best. How much would you spend on an equivalent lithium? I had wanted to go ahead with the controller for now as it is fairly inexpensive.

Andrew

 

[David and Sally]

 

[suavecarve]

Thanks for that. I'd love to change the lot & upgrade to to 300w but sadly I just can't afford to do that at the moment. The batteries would normally remain pretty much fully charged and I would be banning charging of phones etc if the volts were to drop below 12.5. I bought the 2 batteries at the same time with the rest of the system and they are old and passed their best. How much would you spend on an equivalent lithium? I had wanted to go ahead with the controller for now as it is fairly inexpensive.

Andrew

It is possible to buy 100 ah of lithium for 380 off amazon.

You may want to do your own research on them and be warned about delivery times as they appear to come cheaper the longer you wait

 

[funflair]

Hello and welcome seems to be the order of the day, so "hello and welcome"

I did also wonder about the batteries? don't make the mistake of thinking your batteries are fully charged at 12.7v if the sun is still shining as this is just the terminal voltage (a mix of solar out and battery level). All that aside though 55w out of 150w panel in bright sun is not good so possibly your panel is either A/ faulty or B/ filthy, B would be easier to fix you say 25w to 30w for most of the day so that is only a couple of amps when you take off what the system is using so really you are only putting 10ah back into each battery which is not enough if they start the day at 12v.

 

[Savo]

Would the 100 ah of lithium be similar in capacity to my 220 ah of regular leisure batteries because you can use more than 50% of the available power? £380 would would be a stretch. £760 cause a divorce

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[Tombola]

£760 cause a divorce

Ahhh this is when you bring out the big guns...

"but Love look",,,,,you can use your hairdryer with these lithiums

 

[suavecarve]

Would the 100 ah of lithium be similar in capacity to my 220 ah of regular leisure batteries because you can use more than 50% of the available power? £380 would would be a stretch. £760 cause a divorce

220 ah of gel gives you roughly 110 ah of usable power
100 ah of lithium gives you 90 ah of usable power and a quicker recharge and they last longer than 6 years

760 quid and a divorce comes down to 649 quid for 200 ah of lithium (amazon and i bought one on monday and fitted it yesterday) and 180 ah of usable power hence suggesting only 100 ah, as i think your marriage might be worth saving !

 

[Savo]

I have been regularly cleaning the solar panel throughout the holiday. I would normally see nearly 14 volts but not this holiday. The solar panel may be faulty but if I was replacing that then I would replace the qontroller at the same time so thought it would be safe enough to replace it first the lithium 200 ah battery sounds fantastic & I now know what I want for Christmas (wife has to use honda Eu2000 whenever nobody is around to dry her hair ). Buying new panels & controller togethe would be good so maybe I should look at that also.,

Andrew

 

[Nanniemate]

I have been regularly cleaning the solar panel throughout the holiday. I would normally see nearly 14 volts but not this holiday. The solar panel may be faulty but if I was replacing that then I would replace the qontroller at the same time so thought it would be safe enough to replace it first the lithium 200 ah battery sounds fantastic & I now know what I want for Christmas (wife has to use honda Eu2000 whenever nobody is around to dry her hair ). Buying new panels & controller togethe would be good so maybe I should look at that also.,

Andrew

Tell wife to cut her hair

 

[suavecarve]

I have been regularly cleaning the solar panel throughout the holiday. I would normally see nearly 14 volts but not this holiday. The solar panel may be faulty but if I was replacing that then I would replace the qontroller at the same time so thought it would be safe enough to replace it first the lithium 200 ah battery sounds fantastic & I now know what I want for Christmas (wife has to use honda Eu2000 whenever nobody is around to dry her hair ). Buying new panels & controller togethe would be good so maybe I should look at that also.,

Andrew

If you go lithium you need to think about wire width, size of MPPT, battery to battery (you may already have that) also look at the physical sizes of the batteries especially if purchasing 200 ah. a lot bigger than i anticipated.

You also need to think, "How much potential money have I just saved with half a dozen replies ?" The answer could be a couple to 300 nicker. Did you know that with 5 posts you cant post anymore until you pay your 20 nicker ?

PS Renogy may be your friend for solar panel deals.

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[Nanniemate]

When I had my solar panel fitted asked about lithium and guy said waste of money for what you use van for. Just replaced the 2 original batteries on a 16 year old van. £180.00 ,I've it it 4 years .so ot depends on your usage

 

[autorouter]

Apart from all the battery questions, there's the question about upgrading the panels in the future. You might find it difficult to find a panel that matches the electrical characteristics of the existing 150W panel. I think it's possible to find a second panel to match the first if you look round carefully at all the panel spec details, and you know what you are looking for.

Alternatively you could wire the two panels into two smaller separate controllers, both wired to the leisure battery. So you'd have two separate systems - if one stops working, the other can keep going.

 

[berni109]

Welcome.
Before u start the scatter gun approach and start changing random components of your electrical system get a decent DC clamp test meter and determine what it is that's not working as it should. A search on here when u have paid up will give u a good idea what to buy.

 

[Savo]

Thanks I'll have a search

 

[Savo]

This is the info for the panel . If I could get another panel and controller now with a view to buying new batteries for next year. I'm a bit excited with the Bluetooth

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[Savo]

Well here is an update on my solar problems. I purchased a Victron, smart solar charge controller last August and that sorted the problem. I have to say the controller has been fabulous and not that expensive £127 from Amazon. We are just about to head home from a three week trip to catterick, Kendal, Blackpool, Stranraer, we have 2 teenage kids streaming Minecraft on YouTube most nights, wifi, iPads, etc and it's been great.

 

[suavecarve]

Well here is an update on my solar problems. I purchased a Victron, smart solar charge controller last August and that sorted the problem. I have to say the controller has been fabulous and not that expensive £127 from Amazon. We are just about to head home from a three week trip to catterick, Kendal, Blackpool, Stranraer, we have 2 teenage kids streaming Minecraft on YouTube most nights, wifi, iPads, etc and it's been great.

View attachment 785715

You didnt need lithium with that print out. Fully charged halfway through the day, I would say you are a light user of electricity (pun intended)

 

[Ingwe]

Welcome.
Before u start the scatter gun approach and start changing random components of your electrical system get a decent DC clamp test meter and determine what it is that's not working as it should. A search on here when u have paid up will give u a good idea what to buy.

Can you please tell me how you would check solar controller using a dc clamp test meter. I have one (dc clamp meter) and understand how it works. But which wires to clamp? Sorry if this seems a silly question-I’m slowly getting there!

 

[autorouter]

The important thing is to only clamp around one single wire, so that it goes throught the big hole in the clamp, and the arms of the clamp are touching together. If you clamp around the panel positive wire you will get the amps from the panel. If you turn the meter over the amps reading will be the same but negative.

If you clamp around the positive to the battery, you will measure the amps coming out of the solar controller. If there are no habitation loads switched on that is showing the amps going into the battery. If there are any habitation loads on, they will be powered, and anything left over will go into the battery.

Avoid clamping around both the positive and negative wires at the same time, because you will get about zero, as the magnetic fields will cancel each other out.

One more thing, check that the meter is set for 'DC' amps. Some meters like the UT210E set themselves to AC amps when powered on, and you have to you have to press the blue button to switch it over to DC

 

[wfdTamar]

I prefer to have an lcd display so use Votronic controllers as they have nice displays.

My guess is you’ve not been fully recharging your batteries and/or they’ve just gone due to age. Lithium is not a simple swap. Easier and almost as good is lead carbon gel (Alpha batteries). Much cheaper than lithium, almost all the benefit, except the weight saving.

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[Ingwe]

The important thing is to only clamp around one single wire, so that it goes throught the big hole in the clamp, and the arms of the clamp are touching together. If you clamp around the panel positive wire you will get the amps from the panel. If you turn the meter over the amps reading will be the same but negative.

If you clamp around the positive to the battery, you will measure the amps coming out of the solar controller. If there are no habitation loads switched on that is showing the amps going into the battery. If there are any habitation loads on, they will be powered, and anything left over will go into the battery.

Avoid clamping around both the positive and negative wires at the same time, because you will get about zero, as the magnetic fields will cancel each other out.

One more thing, check that the meter is set for 'DC' amps. Some meters like the UT210E set themselves to AC amps when powered on, and you have to you have to press the blue button to switch it over to DC

That’s the very meter I have (UT210E). Thank you for the clear explanation.

 

[Petroleumblownapart]

I've been lurking for some time enjoying the useful info from this forum. We are a family of 5 and only use sites without ehu. I have 6 year old solar setup of Bosch 150w mono panel, cheap Chinese mppt controller and 2 x 110ah leisure batteries. We are enjoying nice weather on our 2nd week away, however I'm having problems.

The voltage dropped to below 12v a few nights ago and is slowly returning to 12.7v. Normally when the battery is charging I would see voltages of maybe 13.8, but this time the voltage is just slowly rising from 12v in the morning to maybe 12.7 at night. The display is showing 25 - 30 Watts most of the day with the odd high of maybe 55 in direct sun. Therefore I'm thinking the controller is just working like pwm. I always keep an eye on the controller and normally the volts would be over 13 on overcast days. We have had to limit the WiFi, ipads, phones, etc so as not to use too much battery.

I am thinking of first changing to a Victron SMART BlueSolar Charge Controller - 100/20a so that I can upgrade my solar panel at a later date. I like the reviews and that I can monitor voltages on my phone. Would I be better off with a smaller controller and then when I add a 2nd panel I could add a 2nd controller. Maybe I should go for the bigger controller and then buy 2 new panels eventually? . The 150w can struggle later in the year when we have less sunlight.

I realise I have waffled a bit here but any advice would be appreciated.

Andrew

MPPT is the way to go. You can use a 20A initially and always add another in parallel later. There is no problem doing this. PWM is no where near as efficient as MPPT. The Victron also has a second switched and programmable controllable additional output too.

 

[wfdTamar]

It's a good feature having a dual output controller. The Votronic DuoDigital ones charge the starter battery as well. It's not programmable (adjustable) though and is 1-1.5 Amps (depending on model). Mine kept my batteries good all through winters with 200 watts of solar.

Epever have a model that has it too. I'm not keen on Epever - their app and displays are clunky.