Here We Go Again, Fiat Ducato 2017 Starter Problems Round 2

[zac]

So some will remember that when i purchased my new (then was brand new) Rapido 10000 MH back in April 2017 that i had a weird starting problem that was intermittent. The fault was that after driving the vehicle (no idea how long as never got to the bottom of that bit) and say then stopping for fuel it would then refuse to start. Refuse in the sense that when you turn the key there was nothing, no click, no noise just the turning of the barrel to the point where you get to the spring part and it then comes back (key that is). So after many months of head scratching and numerous trips back to the dealer i took it into Adams Morey in southampton and after they also couldnt find the issue but they agreed to replace the starter motor. This was mainly bacause they had seen this fault before, sure enough since Sept 2017 i have not had a single reoccurence of the issue until Saturday just gone. Now i had been driving for about 90 mins and pulled into get fuel again like i always do just before home so it is full the next time and then back in the vehicle and again nothing. This lasted for about 5 mins and then like before it started, nothing changed, nothing turned on or off it just starts. So now as it is out of warranty and the starter motor that was fitted only had 12 months warranty on it although the Fiat warranty would of covered it till April 2019 i am now in exactly the same position as i was previously. I spoke with Adam's Morey again today and they can fit a Bosch starter motor (not the genuine fiat one that was fitted last time) but this is going to cost £300 which is not that bad but i am a little annoyed that a starter motor has only lasted just short of 19 months before playing up again. I can't remember every fitting a new starter motor in a car or in the last MH that i had for 2 years. But i dont want to get in the same situation as last time where it starts to get longer and longer before it then starts. I think i will leave it for the moment but it looks as though i will have to spend the £300 sooner rather than later.

Fiat of course dont want to know now the warranty has gone by just under 2 months (not good really when these parts are supposed to last years) but i can understand to a certain degree.

So just in case anyone has a similar issue, check the starter motor and if you need a spare genuine fiat one let me know as soon i will have one going which has only done less than 8k miles.

 

[tonyidle]

So some will remember that when i purchased my new (then was brand new) Rapido 10000 MH back in April 2017 that i had a weird starting problem that was intermittent. The fault was that after driving the vehicle (no idea how long as never got to the bottom of that bit) and say then stopping for fuel it would then refuse to start. Refuse in the sense that when you turn the key there was nothing, no click, no noise just the turning of the barrel to the point where you get to the spring part and it then comes back (key that is). So after many months of head scratching and numerous trips back to the dealer i took it into Adams Morey in southampton and after they also couldnt find the issue but they agreed to replace the starter motor. This was mainly bacause they had seen this fault before, sure enough since Sept 2017 i have not had a single reoccurence of the issue until Saturday just gone. Now i had been driving for about 90 mins and pulled into get fuel again like i always do just before home so it is full the next time and then back in the vehicle and again nothing. This lasted for about 5 mins and then like before it started, nothing changed, nothing turned on or off it just starts. So now as it is out of warranty and the starter motor that was fitted only had 12 months warranty on it although the Fiat warranty would of covered it till April 2019 i am now in exactly the same position as i was previously. I spoke with Adam's Morey again today and they can fit a Bosch starter motor (not the genuine fiat one that was fitted last time) but this is going to cost £300 which is not that bad but i am a little annoyed that a starter motor has only lasted just short of 19 months before playing up again. I can't remember every fitting a new starter motor in a car or in the last MH that i had for 2 years. But i dont want to get in the same situation as last time where it starts to get longer and longer before it then starts. I think i will leave it for the moment but it looks as though i will have to spend the £300 sooner rather than later.

Fiat of course dont want to know now the warranty has gone by just under 2 months (not good really when these parts are supposed to last years) but i can understand to a certain degree.

So just in case anyone has a similar issue, check the starter motor and if you need a spare genuine fiat one let me know as soon i will have one going which has only done less than 8k miles.

If there's no noise at all the fault is likely the starter solenoid (on top of the starter). This device is both relay for the massive current drawn by the starter and servo to push the starter pinion into the flywheel gear. If it sticks the symptoms are as you describe. Find a local vehicle electrical specialist and ask him to change the solenoid. Ask him to examine the old one to see if he can spot signs of potential sticking. The usual cause is a missing heatshield between the solenoid and the exhaust (if the exhaust is nearby).

 

[zac]

If there's no noise at all the fault is likely the starter solenoid (on top of the starter). This device is both relay for the massive current drawn by the starter and servo to push the starter pinion into the flywheel gear. If it sticks the symptoms are as you describe. Find a local vehicle electrical specialist and ask him to change the solenoid. Ask him to examine the old one to see if he can spot signs of potential sticking. The usual cause is a missing heatshield between the solenoid and the exhaust (if the exhaust is nearby).

Thanks, it does seem to be something to do with heat and then cooling down then starting. Thanks for the advice will look into that.

 

[tonyidle]

Thanks, it does seem to be something to do with heat and then cooling down then starting. Thanks for the advice will look into that.

It'll certainly be cheaper. The starter motor itself normally lasts the life of the engine with our sort of use - solenoids can and do fail.

 

[Oldbob]

You ought to get someone to check voltage at starter motor whilst it is running. You could have a sticky ignition barrel or sticky solenoid.
Either way it could be operating just enough after starting that the starter motor won't run but solenoid is active, it then overheats, only went cooled it reverts to original position to start all over again.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[LesW]

How odd, we have exactly the same issue.

I've had the starter motor out a couple of times, but don't have the tools to remove the solenoid.

We're on a site near Annecy at the moment, so in the morning I'll whip the starter out again and take it to a nearby garage to see if they can help.

 

[Badknee]

I would have thought that the garage should have put two men/ladies on the job to turn the key and check for any leccy at the starter motor/solenoid? Could have been a bad earth even?

 

[Shetland_Dave]

I had a very similar issue many years ago on a Vauxhall Cavalier. It turned out the lining inside the solenoid 'shaft' was swelling up due to heat from the engine running and preventing the solenoid being thrown forward to engage the starter cog.

When it cooled it didn't quite resume it's original internal bore, but contracted enough to release the shaft and so it went on until it eventually just permanently gripped the solenoid shaft and had to be replaced.

 

[TheBig1]

How odd, we have exactly the same issue.

I've had the starter motor out a couple of times, but don't have the tools to remove the solenoid.

We're on a site near Annecy at the moment, so in the morning I'll whip the starter out again and take it to a nearby garage to see if they can help.

before pulling out the starter again, put a jump lead from the battery negative to the starter casing. if it then starts, its an earth strap issue

 

[LesW]

before pulling out the starter again, put a jump lead from the battery negative to the starter casing. if it then starts, its an earth strap issue

Thanks for input, I tried every combination possible.

Eventually managed to get some WD40 type stuff into the solenoid casing which seems to have solved the problem (fingers crossed), it's been working OK for the last week or so.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TheBig1]

Thanks for input, I tried every combination possible.

Eventually managed to get some WD40 type stuff into the solenoid casing which seems to have solved the problem (fingers crossed), it's been working OK for the last week or so.

It will keep you going temporarily but the solenoid will need refurbing or replacing ultimately if that's the case

 

[LesW]

It will keep you going temporarily but the solenoid will need refurbing or replacing ultimately if that's the case

Yes you're probably right, but it looks like the starter needs to be dismantled to access the solenoid.

It'll have to wait until I get home (hopefully)..