Have you ever pursued a dealer/trader for costs?

[haganap]

If so how?
Long story short.

Purchased what is a beautiful motorhome In September. Since purchasing numerous faults on the habitation side became apparent that I discussed on another thread. Fixed them all myself at a cost of about £500 and the dealer reimbursed the costs of the parts.

Fast forward to mid October and the first proper journey away. I got a fault EDC light was on. Took it to a garage in Portugal who had a looked made some sighs etc and said you need an Iveco dealer to plug it in but it seems safe to drive. Everytime I stopped and turned it off then restarted it ran fine for 100 20 50 or even 200 miles. The light would then come on again normally when the engine was under load.
Got it back safely and finally got to take it to an approved Iveco dealer here in Manchester. Great garage who plugged it in and came up with about 4 pages of faults but mostly historic as it had not been plugged in by Iveco for a number of years as serviced by a garage presumably without the Iveco kit. None of the faults were major, but the one relating to the EDC light was or is most probably the Injector on cylinder 2. Advice was to remove the injectors and send them for testing.
The result back was two were leaking (one minor) and one was showing an electrical fault.

The vehicle came with a warranty, the warranty company are basically saying no, it's a historic fault so they will not contribute to the repair and even if they did their limit on a claim is £1000.

So today I go and collect my pride and joy and face the prospect of picking up the bill which I have no idea how much it's going to be but I know the last time I looked it was about 2k. Also even when I get in and drive it away there is no guarantee that fixing this problem is "the" problem and may be on a further journey of discovery to actually locate the actual reason the EDC light ignites and puts the van in to limp mode.

I have now sent numerous emails to the dealer (whos a high end car dealer not a motorhome dealer) for assistance from themselves or for assistance with the warranty company as to why they will not contribute. I have had no response from them whatsoever. I gave them an option to get involved in the repair, speak to the garage directly, speak to the warranty company directly but no response.

Obviously I am not going to reject the vehicle because it's truly a lovely motorhome and once this last engine fault is rectified I will have an awesome van fit for a king in the company of my queen.

However, I'm interested to know what my "legal" rights are and what the process is for "waking up" the dealer. I feel for them in a way as they may not have know the fault existed when they sold the vehicle but the vehicle is faulty.

tia

 

[old-mo]

Not read your other thread, Paul... But due to being what vehicle it is and guessing the price, did they not give you some warranty..?

Sorry meant to ask written warranty..

 

[haganap]

Not read your other thread, Paul... But due to being what vehicle it is and guessing the price, did they not give you some warranty..?

Sorry meant to ask written warranty..

yes came with warranty, but of course the warranty company are saying,,,, nah, that's not covered.

 

[John Russell]

If you want to exercise any legal rights, you almost certainly need to give the dealer the opportunity to fix the problem, and a reasonable time limit, probably at least two weeks, possibly four, to do so.

If they do not, you then have the evidence that they did not meet their obligations. So you could get the fault repaired elsewhere, and claim it from the dealer.

You would need to be able to demonstrate that the price you paid was fair, for example by getting two or more quotes and picking the lowest.

Whether or not you have a claim against the dealer probably depends whether the fault was present when you bought the van. Which the warranty company argue it was. Presumably there's some evidence to this effect? The Iveco log? If it's the opinion of the Iveco garage who diagnosed the fault, get it in writing with reasons. If it's timing of the fault, then mileages and dates when the fault occurred.

This should probably go in your letter to the dealer, explaining the fault and why they are responsible for it. If you go to court later, this will be part of your evidence.

 

[old-mo]

So if that is the case... No warranty given with a vehicle is of any value...

I think I would be inclined to have a word with a solicitor...

By their token... A warranty is worthless...

How is the every day man supposed to know what goes on within.??

That is why warranty`s are given/purchased..

At the end of the day you paid for a warranty...

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[John Russell]

PS Use your letter to document details of phone calls and conversations which you may later want to refer to.

If the dealer doesn't dispute your version of events, it will be harder for them to disagree with it later.

Tell them what you would like them to do to sort the problem out, and give them a reasonable time to reply.

Good luck!

J

 

[meanders]

Also ensure the letter is sent "signed for", but make sure you check the delivery and save or print off the evidence. Print to PDF is usually a good option but save it with a sensible file name.

If they don't respond in the window you have given them, send a Notice before Action letter and append the proof of delivery information.

If that fails to get a response, you can claim up to £10k through the small claims court.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

I wouldn't use a solicitor ,I would advise the dealer in writing that as they have not responded to your request for repairs to be carried out that you have no option but to have the repairs carried out elsewhere. Copy the quotes you have had and advise a timescale to respond.
Advise that you will seek redress for the cost of the repairs plus your expenses in a small claims court. They can be done on line and are reasonably cheap to start off.

 

[63720]

I believe it's all in the description of the vehicle at the time of sale. If it was described as in good condition then any major faults not declared but subsequently come to light within 6 months are deemed to have been there since purchase. If this is so then it's the dealers responsiblty to fix them, regardless of warranty, or fix it at your expense and persue the costs through the small claims court. ****** This is not legal advise ******* and I suggest to look up the laws relating to the sale of goods act which covers this eventually.

 

[eddie]

Paul your contract is with the dealer. You are the dealers customer.

The dealer may hay tried to offset some of their potential losses by buying an insurance policy. The dealer is the warranty insurance companies customers

It is for the dealer to argue with the warranty insurer (their supplier)

It matter not a jot what the insurance say to you about what is, and is not covered

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[Minxy]

Paul your contract is with the dealer. You are the dealers customer.

Exactly, its okay having a warranty but the contract was taken out by the dealer, not the MH owner, it's just a way of some dealers trying to offload some of their responsibility but ultimately the sales contract was between the buyer and seller.

One things for sure though ... they're never gonna try to sell a MH again!

 

[haganap]

Well thanks for the advice.
I've picked the van up and am now in York caravan club site. I gave it a good test and covered 150 miles to get here.

It's literally like a new van now it's been repaired.

It runs amazing and far better than when I got it.
Total cost of repairs was £2285 including the vodka and tonic..

So I've forked it out and prepared myself to stomach the cost, but the battle will now begin.
Dealer still not been in touch and completely ignores my emails.

Regarding giving them the time or chance to fix it? I notified them of the fault on day 1 they never gave any response. I then emailed to tell them that I was taking it to the garage, still no response.. I emailed following the first diagnostic check telling them the fault.. still no response, I told them that I needed to get it repaired and the costs involved and the response from the warranty company..

Still no response...

The above surely shows I've given them the opportunity.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Yes would now send them an invoice and a copy of the receipts and give them 30 days to pay up or you will start a small claims. Advise you have been fair ,you had previously contacted them the insurance company would not honour etc etc.Have it all in writing such that you can present a copy to the court Record any telephone calls or at least keep a note of what was said.

 

[csd4t]

"Letter before small claims court claim" (plenty of templates available on line) sent recorded usually does the trick.

 

[Colino]

Just an observation. If they haven't replied to any of your emails are you sure they have received them ?

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[Sapper520]

Paul your contract is with the dealer. You are the dealers customer.

The dealer may hay tried to offset some of their potential losses by buying an insurance policy. The dealer is the warranty insurance companies customers

It is for the dealer to argue with the warranty insurer (their supplier)

It matter not a jot what the insurance say to you about what is, and is not covered

That’s okay if you can get your dealer to reply to your emails. I gave up doing stuff over the phone as otherthan making sure I had a record of the call, it didn’t prove anything that was agreed.

And now they don’t even answer. I’ve given up and know I’m on my own……..and life is too short for me to get bothered about chasing them.

 

[haganap]

Just an observation. If they haven't replied to any of your emails are you sure they have received them ?

Thanks Colino. That's a good point and one that nikki (Mrs haganap) asked.
I've WhatsApped them too as that's their preferred method of contact.
I can't be sure of the emails but can be sure of the WhatsApp messages as they can be seen to be seen..

Oddly though when I emailed my initial enquiry to buy the van, they responded in literally 30 seconds and did so throughout the whole process.

They are an extremely high end car dealer and I'm talking 200k plus cars..

 

[PJGWiltshire]

Thanks Colino. That's a good point and one that nikki (Mrs haganap) asked.
I've WhatsApped them too as that's their preferred method of contact.
I can't be sure of the emails but can be sure of the WhatsApp messages as they can be seen to be seen..

Oddly though when I emailed my initial enquiry to buy the van, they responded in literally 30 seconds and did so throughout the whole process.

They are an extremely high end car dealer and I'm talking 200k plus cars..

Use another email address to send an email seeking info re a car for sale. Then send another email from your email account around your claim. It will be interesting seeing a response for the expensive car and a blank for your MH claim ?

 

[Baden87]

Send the boys round to educate them ( only joking )

 

[John Russell]

The issue of emails is that the dealer may claim that he hasn't read them, for whatever reason. Without any contrary evidence, a court are likely to accept their version, even though implausible. And perhaps they haven't read them - nobody likes bad news...

Two suggestions. Document any undocumented conversations you had with them which support your case, and include them in your letter to the dealer. You can include printouts of emails here as a last resort, i.e. if my second suggestion doesn't work. As Old-Mo has said, get a signature.

Bear in mind that Royal Mail aren't getting signatures for many signed-for items due to their Covid policy - the postie just logs it as signed for. I've had a few items I didn't receive which I'd evidently signed for and later turned up in the local sorting office. I wouldn't use this service again for anything important.

Secondly, if there is a possibility that the dealer could deny reading your emails, it is possible to put a hidden read-receipt on an email, which should stand up in court. You could send them another email, with this read-receipt, and your previous emails below asking whether they received them.

Standard email read-receipts require the recipient to click on a button to say they received the email. readnotify.com will do what you need without the recipient's involvement - test it with an email to another address. It requires a small subscription.

Get all your ducks lined up before you file a claim.

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[ShiftZZ]

Why not contact the directors direct.. names and addresses from company House.

 

[John Russell]

Why not contact the directors direct.. names and addresses from company House.

If the dealer is a limited liability company your claim is against the company, not its directors.

 

[IanFraser]

However, I'm interested to know what my "legal" rights are and what the process is for "waking up" the dealer. I feel for them in a way as they may not have know the fault existed when they sold the vehicle but the vehicle is faulty.

tia

Check your insurance policies to see if you’ve legal cover & if you have phone them for free advice. I once used cover my motor insurer gave me against them & won!

 

[Mr A]

In addition to all the good advice already given a factual brief Google review might help get a response.

 

[Clive Beeza]

If so how?
Long story short.

Purchased what is a beautiful motorhome In September. Since purchasing numerous faults on the habitation side became apparent that I discussed on another thread. Fixed them all myself at a cost of about £500 and the dealer reimbursed the costs of the parts.

Fast forward to mid October and the first proper journey away. I got a fault EDC light was on. Took it to a garage in Portugal who had a looked made some sighs etc and said you need an Iveco dealer to plug it in but it seems safe to drive. Everytime I stopped and turned it off then restarted it ran fine for 100 20 50 or even 200 miles. The light would then come on again normally when the engine was under load.
Got it back safely and finally got to take it to an approved Iveco dealer here in Manchester. Great garage who plugged it in and came up with about 4 pages of faults but mostly historic as it had not been plugged in by Iveco for a number of years as serviced by a garage presumably without the Iveco kit. None of the faults were major, but the one relating to the EDC light was or is most probably the Injector on cylinder 2. Advice was to remove the injectors and send them for testing.
The result back was two were leaking (one minor) and one was showing an electrical fault.

The vehicle came with a warranty, the warranty company are basically saying no, it's a historic fault so they will not contribute to the repair and even if they did their limit on a claim is £1000.

So today I go and collect my pride and joy and face the prospect of picking up the bill which I have no idea how much it's going to be but I know the last time I looked it was about 2k. Also even when I get in and drive it away there is no guarantee that fixing this problem is "the" problem and may be on a further journey of discovery to actually locate the actual reason the EDC light ignites and puts the van in to limp mode.

I have now sent numerous emails to the dealer (whos a high end car dealer not a motorhome dealer) for assistance from themselves or for assistance with the warranty company as to why they will not contribute. I have had no response from them whatsoever. I gave them an option to get involved in the repair, speak to the garage directly, speak to the warranty company directly but no response.

Obviously I am not going to reject the vehicle because it's truly a lovely motorhome and once this last engine fault is rectified I will have an awesome van fit for a king in the company of my queen.

However, I'm interested to know what my "legal" rights are and what the process is for "waking up" the dealer. I feel for them in a way as they may not have know the fault existed when they sold the vehicle but the vehicle is faulty.

tia

Sad tale

If so how?
Long story short.

Purchased what is a beautiful motorhome In September. Since purchasing numerous faults on the habitation side became apparent that I discussed on another thread. Fixed them all myself at a cost of about £500 and the dealer reimbursed the costs of the parts.

Fast forward to mid October and the first proper journey away. I got a fault EDC light was on. Took it to a garage in Portugal who had a looked made some sighs etc and said you need an Iveco dealer to plug it in but it seems safe to drive. Everytime I stopped and turned it off then restarted it ran fine for 100 20 50 or even 200 miles. The light would then come on again normally when the engine was under load.
Got it back safely and finally got to take it to an approved Iveco dealer here in Manchester. Great garage who plugged it in and came up with about 4 pages of faults but mostly historic as it had not been plugged in by Iveco for a number of years as serviced by a garage presumably without the Iveco kit. None of the faults were major, but the one relating to the EDC light was or is most probably the Injector on cylinder 2. Advice was to remove the injectors and send them for testing.
The result back was two were leaking (one minor) and one was showing an electrical fault.

The vehicle came with a warranty, the warranty company are basically saying no, it's a historic fault so they will not contribute to the repair and even if they did their limit on a claim is £1000.

So today I go and collect my pride and joy and face the prospect of picking up the bill which I have no idea how much it's going to be but I know the last time I looked it was about 2k. Also even when I get in and drive it away there is no guarantee that fixing this problem is "the" problem and may be on a further journey of discovery to actually locate the actual reason the EDC light ignites and puts the van in to limp mode.

I have now sent numerous emails to the dealer (whos a high end car dealer not a motorhome dealer) for assistance from themselves or for assistance with the warranty company as to why they will not contribute. I have had no response from them whatsoever. I gave them an option to get involved in the repair, speak to the garage directly, speak to the warranty company directly but no response.

Obviously I am not going to reject the vehicle because it's truly a lovely motorhome and once this last engine fault is rectified I will have an awesome van fit for a king in the company of my queen.

However, I'm interested to know what my "legal" rights are and what the process is for "waking up" the dealer. I feel for them in a way as they may not have know the fault existed when they sold the vehicle but the vehicle is faulty.

tia

A sad tale haganap,
Just an idea which may help you,
have you thought about contacting the previous owner
( details on log book) and explain what your issue is
and ask whether the EDC light showing was present when they sold the MH
there is no obligation on the previous owner to disclose this to the garage,
and if they already had the EDC issue, as you discovered the fault would not
show until 100 miles plus had been covered,
something the garage themselves would therefore not discover,
If the previous owner is sympathetic to your situation, they
will "come clean" and confirm the EDC light issue was present when they sold the MH
this would possibly confirm the MH was sold to you with a fault already present
Good luck
and keep the Funsters informed how you get on.

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[dunnah01]

But £2250 to clean a couple of injectors!

 

[gus-lopez]

If the dealer is a limited liability company your claim is against the company, not its directors.

Most ltd companies the directors have to guarantee almost everything personally.

 

[triclops]

Just an idea which may help you,
have you thought about contacting the previous owner
( details on log book)

Previous owners details are no longer shown on the log book.

 

[Barryh]

The warranty will be an insurance (financial) product. If you have a problem you can take it to the Financial Ombudsmen who might be able to sort it out.

I did this when I had a problem with my Autotrail. In short, at the time the Autotrail 3 year warranty was covered for the first 2 years by Autotrail and the 3rd year by MB&G. The fault occurred in year 3, I read the insurance and decided it was covered. However, my hopeless wouldn’t touch again with a bargepole dealer (Travelword) wasn’t interested. So I went directly to Autotrail who said it was nothing to do with them and my contract was with MB&G and I should deal with them. I disagreed but did so and MB&G said it wasn’t covered.

So I then took the case to the Financial Ombudsman who told Autotrail my warranty was with them as the supplier of the warranty, regardless of how they chose to supply it. It was soon fixed at another dealership. Having Ombudsman tell them certainly seemed to concentrate their minds.

Subsequent to this, Autotrail completely dropped the insurance based element of their warranty.

It took a fair while to sort out, fighting Autotrail, MB&G and Travelworld, but I’ve got the time and tenacity and in the end I got there. Just Google the Ombudsman and the process is there. Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Bucket]

Previous owners details are no longer shown on the log book.

I have details of my previous owner, there's various paperwork that came when I bought it, including service invoices made out to them. I have never needed to contact them of course but it might help you to search your documents?

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