Globecar Leisure Electrical Not Working

[jpearce64]

Hello,

I've just joined the forum ... my mid-80s parents are having an electrical problem with their Globecar Ford Transit camper van. I'm trying to help them sort out an electrical problem with the habitat side of their camper van and I've already done a search on the forum and can't find anything to help me.

It is quite an old Globecar ... originally manufactured in 2007.

The basic problem is that whilst the electrical side of the van/engine is fine, there doesn't appear to be any power getting to the leisure side of the campervan, e.g. lights, electric toilet flush, etc.

It has a LT 410 control panel and whilst if you push the correct button it shows the charge of both the van and habitat batteries, if you push the rocker switch to enable battery power to the habitat side the LED above the switch does not come on.

I've looked everywhere for loose wires or blown fuses, but can't find anything obvious.

It has an Electroblock EBL 99. The master switch on the EBL is on and I can't find another electrical master switch. There doesn't appear to be an 'on' light on the EBL and I was sort of expecting the click of a relay when you switch it on, but there is nothing.

I'd contacted Apuljack and a helpful person suggested that there is a known problem with a 2A fuse in line with the leisure battery. Apparently there is a 'sense' feed to confirm a battery is connected and apparently this is a common culprit for this type of problem.

Under the front passenger seat there is just the EBL 99, and under the driver's seat there are two batteries. Both say they are Ford batteries which in conjunction with the date on the battery (2007) suggests to me these are the original batteries from when it was manufactured. I know that in itself may well be a problem as we are looking at batteries that 15 years old and probably well past their expected life. The two batteries look like they are connected in parallel, so I suspect these two batteries are for engine, etc and not one for engine and one for leisure. Can anyone comment on that?

If this is the case I'm wondering if there is another leisure battery (complete with sense circuit and 2A fuse) hidden somewhere else in the vehicle. Can anyone cast any light on whether we should be looking for a separate leisure battery somewhere else in the vehicle?

We have phoned around trying to find somewhere who can take a look and repair it, but we can't get it booked in until September. So we continue to try and locate the problem.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Regards,

John.

 

[paddymcc]

I think it is unlikely that both batteries are vehicle batteries. More likely if they are wired in parallel that they are both leisure batteries. If you can see the voltages what are they and do they go up with either EHU or the engine on to a charging voltage - 14V or so? On the control panel check which voltage corresponds to the under seat batteries to see whether habitation or vehicle ( if in parallel they will have the same voltage). Are there fuses at the positive terminal of the batteries - probably 50A and a 2A?

 

[pappajohn]

Don't know when Ford started doing it but they fit two engine batteries....one for the starter and one for lighting etc.
I really can't see leisure batteries being labelled as Ford batteries.

 

[GeoffnDee]

I think pappajohn is correct and Ford did fit 2 x engine/lighting batteries in the 2007 Transit (under the drivers seat) , which model Globecar is yours as some models may have the leisure battery in different locations.

 

[jpearce64]

Transit 130 T350
Trendscout RD

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[autorouter]

It has a LT 410 control panel and whilst if you push the correct button it shows the charge of both the van and habitat batteries,

What voltage readings is it showing for the starter battery and leisure battery? Are they sensible values (11.8V to 12.8V). Are they different?

The fact that you can get a reading from the leisure battery shows that the thin sense wire with the 2A fuse is OK. You need to find the leisure battery. Next to it will be two fuses, a 50A for the thick power wire and a 2A for the thin sense wire. Check the 50A fuse - it's a Maxi size not a standard size.

Do you have a multimeter? Very handy for tracing faults, a cheap one is fine for this purpose, and you can pick one up for less than a tenner in a DIY store.

 

[jpearce64]

Just ordered a multimeter … update to follow

 

[autorouter]

Just ordered a multimeter … update to follow

Good idea. You can still do a lot without a multimeter though. The first thing is to find the leisure battery, they can be in all kinds of places, hidden away, Maybe someone who has/had a Globecar can shed some light. I think Minxy had one for example.

There is a manual for the EBL 99 in the Motorhome Fun resources section. It's fairly comprehensive, it doesn't show most of the motorhome wiring but it does show all the circuits and fuses. There's a nice complicated wiring diagram near the end.

Briefly, the power for all the habitation circuits comes in via that 50A fuse near the leisure battery, and goes out via the front panel fuses and connectors.

The EBL also contains a 240V smart mains charger, which charges the leisure battery, and trickle-charges the starter battery. It should be totally automatic, and can be left on all the time if you want, no need to switch it off. Do you have access to mains, so you can plug in the MH? If the habitation circuits work when 240V mains is connected, but not when unplugged, that usually means the 50A fuse by the leisure battery has blown.

Edit: just remembered, you need to become a member by subscribing to have access to the Resources section. Also you're limited to 5 posts unless you subscribe.

 

[jpearce64]

… I’ve just subscribed …

 

[GeoffnDee]

If you are unable to find the leisure battery ,for now , when you get your multi-meter ,I think you will find that the 2 x battery connections (leisure and starter) into the EBL are at the rear of the unit and if you can get at them you could use the meter to confirm if power is getting to it from the leisure battery or not. (if it is not you will have to carry on the search for it to check the 50a fuse as autorouter has said.)

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[autorouter]

One thing you can check is exactly which habitation circuits don't work. There's two groups. The switched circuits turn off when the habitation power switch on the display is turned off. That's most of them, like lights, water pump/flush etc.

The other group is 'permanently' powered and stays on when the display switch is turned off. That usually includes things like the electric step, step illumination light, fridge control board and heater control board. If they are off you have definitely lost all power.

Also I'm assuming the leisure battery isn't totally flat, which is another possible reason for having no power. If the leisure battery voltage shows as 12.0V or more on the display, then lack of power is not a battery problem.

 

[autorouter]

It has an Electroblock [Broken Link Removed] 99. The master switch on the EBL is on and I can't find another electrical master switch. There doesn't appear to be an 'on' light on the EBL and I was sort of expecting the click of a relay when you switch it on, but there is nothing.

The master switch EBLs has a bit of a reputation for unreliability. I never switch the one on mine (2006), because there's a good chance it won't switch back on. Some people find it needs several attempts of exercising the switch before it will function correctly. However I don't think it's a problem here. If the display is functioning then the master switch is working. This is just cautionary note to be careful of turning off the master switch.

 

[Minxy]

Good idea. You can still do a lot without a multimeter though. The first thing is to find the leisure battery, they can be in all kinds of places, hidden away, Maybe someone who has/had a Globecar can shed some light. I think @Minxy had one for example.

I've had 2 Globecars but they were both Fiat based and the battery was under the driver's seat, whether its the same with older Ford based one I haven't a clue I'm afraid.

 

[gerry mcg]

Likewise, my Globecar is on a Fiat Ducato Base, sorry!

 

[jpearce64]

Thanks to everyone for their replies

I finally managed to find the leisure battery ... both the 2A sense and 50A fuse seemed to be OK, but I changed them both to be on the safe side to no effect.

The leisure battery voltage reading on both the control panel and with a multimeter on the leisure battery is 12.9v. But the leisure battery (like the engine batteries) does look like it could well be the original battery dating back to 2007/8!?!

We've found someone local who can replace the leisure battery which we think is worth a try.

Interestingly if you press the control panel internal battery switch whilst someone else flicks the main switch on the EBL 99 the warning battery for the battery does come on briefly and then go out. Not sure if that's just a startup abnormality or an indication that there could be something wrong with the battery.

At the moment none of the internal electrics seem to be working, including things that should be on permanently, e.g. electric step. Even with mains connected the electric step doesn't work.

The RCBs appear to be OK, and when you do connect to mains the mains light on the control panel does come on.

I'm starting to wonder if it could be a problem with the EBL 99?

Regards,

John.

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[autorouter]

As GeoffnDee said, at the back of the EBL is a 3-way terminal block connector, with thick wires for the leisure battery positive, starter battery positive and common negative. Check there to see if the voltage is making its way from the 50A fuse to the EBL.

Note that the colours might not be what you expect. On my Hymer it is red for Starter positive, black for Leisure positive, and brown for common negative.

Inside the EBL there are two big latching relays, one for the permanent loads and one for the other loads. They are both fed from the incoming leisure battery connection on the terminal block. You can check if 12V is getting to that internal point because the connection for the auxiliary charger goes to it. There's a fuse slot labelled 'Zusatz Ladegerat' (= auxiliary charger), one of the terminals is connected to that internal point. Not sure which one of the terminals, but the other goes to the 2-way connector labelled similarly, 'Zus Lade LAS' possibly.

And for future reference, where did you find the leisure battery?

The leisure battery might have failed because, even if the voltage is OK (12.9 is fine), it might have no capacity to supply a load. To test it you could connect something directly across its terminals. For example one of those compressors for inflating tyres/airbeds, which might have croc clips on the leads. But anything that draws a bit of current would do. If the voltage collapses when a bit of amps is taken out, then the battery is no good.

 

[jpearce64]

... on the driver's side towards the back, just past the boiler, there is a storage bin with a panel in the floor, and low and behold there is the leisure battery.

I'd like to do the test you suggested but I believe those connections are on the back of the EBL 99 and I don't think I can get access without removing the front passenger seat? Is there any other way I can test the EBL?

I'm suspicious that when I flick the on/off switch on the EBL that I can't hear any clicks from relay?

Regards,

John.

 

[autorouter]

I'd like to do the test you suggested but I believe those connections are on the back of the EBL 99 and I don't think I can get access without removing the front passenger seat? Is there any other way I can test the EBL?

Can you access the front of the EBL? That test at the fuse slot will tell you if voltage is reaching the EBL internal distribution point I mentioned. If it does, all OK, if not, further tests needed. An alternative is to put a (known good) fuse in the Zusatz Ladegerat slot, and check the voltage at the 2-way Zus Lade LAS connector. Pin1 (top) is negative, Pin2 (bottom) is positive).

 

[autorouter]

There's another test you can do, but it's a bit more involved. Near the water heater, on the floor, there is a 'frost protection valve'. It opens and dumps the water in the water heater if the temperature falls below about 3 deg C. It is spring-loaded, and is held closed by a direct feed from the EBL main switch. When that switch is off, the valve springs open. When the switch is closed, if 12V power is reaching the switch it will send power to the valve. You can pull up the valve and it should click and stay up (ie closed). If there's no power then the switch won't stay closed, it will just spring open again.

It will also not stay closed if the temperature is below about 3 deg C, but I presume that's not a problem you're having right now

If you can't get at the frost protection valve you could test Pin4 (top left) of the 6-way connector on the EBL front panel. At that pin the 12V should go on and off as you switch the EBL main switch. For a negative you could use Pin5 or Pin6, the other pins in the top row.

 

[GeoffnDee]

jpearce64 If it any help the rear connections on the EBL can be seen if you go to www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk and look in their catalogue for Schaudt you will find the EBL99 is shown on page 3 (front and rear views).

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[ED O'DARAC]

Change the battery first before looking deeper. If it is a 2007 battery it has had a good life. At least then you know it will probably be the EBL99. The switch on the EBL99 is a strange slider through a slot operated with a pin or a nail. Double check that this is indeed fully switched on. (Aus=off / Ein=On).
Fit solar charging as soon as possible and that should keep everything ticking over.

 

[Minxy]

If you do change the battery make sure you get a 'proper' leisure type one as a replacement as there are loads of engine batteries that pretend to be leisure batteries out there but are not suitable. If you're happy to do it yourself, after all it's just a matter of disconnecting the existing one, taking it out, plopping the new one in and connecting it back up again (negative off first and negative on last).

 

[autorouter]

If you do change the battery make sure you get a 'proper' leisure type one as a replacement as there are loads of engine batteries that pretend to be leisure batteries out there but are not suitable. If you're happy to do it yourself, after all it's just a matter of disconnecting the existing one, taking it out, plopping the new one in and connecting it back up again (negative off first and negative on last).

That's true, the OP needs to be aware of the options. On the top right of the EBL 99 there is a switch, to change the battery charging profile. Batterie-Wahl = Battery Selection, Blei-saure = lead-acid, Blei-gel = Gel. Note there is no option for AGM, as found on some later EBLs. So if you want to keep the mains charger built into the EBL, you are restricted to Gel batteries, or the various types of 'flooded' batteries. The more modern 'flooded' batteries can be sealed, low-maintenance, such as the EFB (Enhanced Flooded Battery) types which are quite popular.

Many people on here go for Gel batteries, which are more expensive than standard lead-acid but last longer and can be discharged to a lower level without damage.

If you really want to go for something different like AGM or even Lithium, a different charger will be required. This isn't as difficult as it might sound, it's easy to disable the inbuilt charger and wire your preferred charger into the auxiliary charger input mentioned before.

The 'charging profile' is the sequence of voltages, currents and timing that are tailored to the different types of battery. They are very similar, but have differences in the detail, for optimising battery longevity.

 

[jpearce64]

The current/original battery appears to be an AGM battery, but as Autorouter said this shouldn't be compatible with an EBL 99 ... see picture ...

 

[jpearce64]

Just reading all the stuff on charger profiles and AGM vs Gel vs Wet ... as I don't think the basic EBL99 supports AGM (its not been upgraded) and that's what we appear to have I'm just wondering if that could be the source of the problem ... has an incompatible charger profile damaged the AGM battery to the point where it just can't supply enough current?

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[autorouter]

It looks to me like that battery is no longer functioning. If you're replacing that battery, it would be good to know the kind of usage it will get. For example, if they nearly always use campsites with EHU, they might only need a flooded battery like an EFB, so that everything functions en route to the site, and maybe an overnight stop without EHU. Or they might be avid 'wild' campers who rarely stay on a place with hookup and want to last for several days without driving. In which case a good gel battery is a sound investment.

Mismatching the battery type with the profile is not a huge problem initially, but the problems build up and the battery deteriorates faster than if correctly matched to its profile. It depends how much time it's spent on EHU, because that profile only applies to the mains charger, not the alternator (or solar controller, if any).

 

[jpearce64]

We're getting a new appropriate leisure battery installed on Monday ... we are keeping our fingers crossed that it is the battery and not the EBL99 ... we'll remember to change the battery type on the EBL ...

With a bit of luck my parents may still get a couple of weeks in Devon before the schools breakup ... I'll update next week after we have the new battery ...

 

[jpearce64]

Just to provide an update ... everyone is busy this time of year so its taken a while to make any progress ...

We've had a new leisure battery fitted ... unfortunately this didn't help, but probably needed doing anyway.

We had the EBL 99 removed and sent back to Apuljack who couldn't find a fault.

We've had an electrician pouring over the vehicle with a crib sheet from Apuljack and we still haven't been able to find the cause of the problem.

The focus has shifted to the control panel (a LT 410) ... I can't see any blown components or dry solder joints but there is a bit of white powder on one corner of the PCB.

I've managed to track down a replcaement LT 410 from a company called MVM in Germany. I'm hoping this will arrive in a week or so. At which point we will try replacing the control panel.

As a fallback we are booked in with SMC Newark in about 3 weeks ...

 

[jpearce64]

Finally a solution …

We’d replaced leisure battery, removed the EBL 99 and sent it to Apuljack who couldn’t find a problem. Apuljack also suggested some tests which were performed by the electrician at Cambridge Caravans. The conclusion was that it was probably a fault with the on/off switch on the LT 410 control panel. It wasn’t the easiest thing to find a replacement given the campervan is probably 14 years old. But I was able to find a German company called MVM who were able to supply a new LT 410 within a few days. Cambridge Caravans have just fitted it and everything is now working

Big shout out to Cambridge Caravans for helping us sort this out …