Future of motorhomes

[rusted]

I have been trying to get my head around where motorhomes are going. If I understand correctly in 2030 there will be no new (non electric) motorhomes sold in the UK, so do all the UK motorhome manufactures move into electric, shut up shop or go into repairs/refurb and what happens to our spares/support for existing vehicles.
I'm also not clear if we can continue to import from out side the UK, I believe the EU will continue to manufacture until 2035, so can we import a new or 6 month old vehicle.
Or have I missed something thoughts ?

 

[The Wino]

The point that seems to be missing here is how do you think all this battery charging is going to work for people with MOHOs in storage, where they DON'T have room for the vehicle at home? Storage companies are never in this world going to provide a charger for every storage space unless they up their prices massively. And still not forgetting the issue of range on an EV which is greatly reduced the heavier the vehicle is.

This technology is still decades off for motorhomes, regardless of what you might read on the internet.

Why would you need to charge in storage? EV batteries don't discharge like old lead acid ones used to. When our MH was in storage we would drive it once a month or so to keep it in good order EVs would be very similar probably if anything less likely to suffer from standing not being used than a conventional engine. That being said it's not a good idea to park them at 100% depending on the battery technology.

 

[MrPeteUK]

Why would you need to charge in storage? EV batteries don't discharge like old lead acid ones used to. When our MH was in storage we would drive it once a month or so to keep it in good order EVs would be very similar probably if anything less likely to suffer from standing not being used than a conventional engine. That being said it's not a good idea to park them at 100% depending on the battery technology.

So there you have answered the question. Do you charge it or not? It's not like an every day use vehicle where it's on charge for 9 or 10 hours then unplugged and used. I don't use my MOHO every month sometimes, so how long would a full battery charge actually last? No one can say, because the technology doesn't exist yet. What I'm trying to get across is that EV technology is great for small vehicles in daily use, but I'm very sceptical about motorhome use where it can be weeks or months between use.

 

[starquake]

Why would you need to charge in storage? EV batteries don't discharge like old lead acid ones used to. When our MH was in storage we would drive it once a month or so to keep it in good order EVs would be very similar probably if anything less likely to suffer from standing not being used than a conventional engine. That being said it's not a good idea to park them at 100% depending on the battery technology.

Exactly.

We've left our Electric car for 2 months, not a single mile lost of Range. Not all cars are Teslas (which are prone to using power when stationary for the cameras).

Why would a motorhome be any different, in fact it's likely to be singnificantly better as the solar will recharge it (very slowly).

 

[mikash]

The point that seems to be missing here is how do you think all this battery charging is going to work for people with MOHOs in storage, where they DON'T have room for the vehicle at home? Storage companies are never in this world going to provide a charger for every storage space unless they up their prices massively. And still not forgetting the issue of range on an EV which is greatly reduced the heavier the vehicle is.

This technology is still decades off for motorhomes, regardless of what you might read on the internet.

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Maybe not decades away, early adopters are having a go at it already. I'm channeling my inner Nostradamus here and predicting ePVCs will become a thing within next 5 years and bigger motorhomes will follow in the 2030s.

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[SpeedyDux]

You made my point for me...

Nobody will buy today , what will be cheaper and better tomorrow.

I think it was 2021 when i looked at what the cost of a new Nissan Leaf was, and what they could be had for at 3 years old, i think they were £34K at the time, and on Autotrader they could be had for £12k... £24 k in 3 years, you could have bought a new Suzuki Alto every 12 months, and set the old one on fire, and still lost less money.

And while you think falling prices of new vehicles is good, its desparation to shift units rather than have to weigh them in that is fuelling that .

The chinese market is eating itself in the same way, so much cheap rubbish, being discounted just because they are running out of places to park the ones they cant sell.

There was a story a couple of years ago about people having to queue for hours to charge Teslas, they were losing £1k a week,one guy said he waited 6 hours, and back then, they were losing £6 an hour, it might have only cost him £4 to charge it, but it lost £36 in the queue.

With no secondhand market, its over, no matter how cheap they can make them ( bear in mind Ford are selling every single EV they make at a loss) if real people are not going to hand over cash for a used one, it just stops.

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Good news for ICE owners! The right vehicle becomes very price stable on the used market.

The ZEV Mandate imposed by the government is distorting the new EV market. Manufacturers and dealers are reportedly giving very big discounts off EV list price as the year end approaches, and pre-registering EVs to meet the ZEV sales mandate percentage for that year to avoid hefty fines. I did read a report of a Vauxhall dealership offering new e-Corsas at 50% below list. There's going to be a lot of "ex-demo" EVs going very cheap in January 2026. Don't rush to buy one this summer. This ZEV Mandate distortion effect will have a knock-on impact on the used EV market as well. The unintended consequence of government diktats.

Porsche are reported to be reversing their policy to go all electric. Expect new ICE Macans.

I am still hoping that there will be an official self-charging or plug-in hybrid Ducato, offering a MH capable of 40+ mpg on diesel. Are you listening, Stellantis? Not going to hold my breath.

 

[SpeedyDux]

How many of the younger generation have any intention of ever getting a car be it EV or ICE. Talk to the under 25s who live in urban areas, rather catch the bus or call an Uber than pay for lessons, car purchase, insurance, maintenance, fuel. They do not find the 'open' road calling them.

I have 2 nephews both in their 30s.

Nephew 1 doesn't have a driving licence and always relies on public transport.

Nephew 2 has a modern car. Drives everywhere.

Guess which nephew doesn't have a girlfriend/partner, and which one does.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Exactly.

We've left our Electric car for 2 months, not a single mile lost of Range. Not all cars are Teslas (which are prone to using power when stationary for the cameras).

Why would a motorhome be any different, in fact it's likely to be singnificantly better as the solar will recharge it (very slowly).

The problem is more likely to be that the small 12V battery goes flat. It can happen with EVs and hybrids after a fairly short period of non-use. Getting the thing started can be quite a challenge from what I have seen on those forums.

 

[Simon Select]

I wish Hydrogen would come faster!

 

[Coolcats]

Much better to encourage people to have home battery storage and feed back in from batteries or their EV if they don't need all their charge the next day. A lot less wasted energy than turning it into hydrogen then burning it in an engine.

One battery manufacturer who has a modular battery tech is BOS the BOS S can be used where you need the storage be it at home or the MoHo/Boat etc I can see more manufactures doing this in the future.

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Can be used in the MoHo in standard or hybrid mode without changing the charger etc

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[autorouter]

The point that seems to be missing here is how do you think all this battery charging is going to work for people with MOHOs in storage, where they DON'T have room for the vehicle at home? Storage companies are never in this world going to provide a charger for every storage space unless they up their prices massively. And still not forgetting the issue of range on an EV which is greatly reduced the heavier the vehicle is.

This technology is still decades off for motorhomes, regardless of what you might read on the internet.

It would be exactly the same situation as it is for ICE motorhomes. If standard 13A EHU sockets (or round blue 16A sockets) were available, then any standard 'granny' charger will plug in to a standard mains socket and charge at a slow rate. That will not be a problem if it's in storage for weeks or months.

A small solar setup, say 200W, would be fine for keeping the main storage battery topped up, and maintaining the small 12V startup and leisure batteries.

If neither are available, then a visit every few weeks with a power bank like an Ecoflow or Bluetti will top up if necessary.

But I would expect that the very large high voltage main storage battery will have some gizmos added that will keep the various small 12V batteries topped up, much like a BatteryMaster does. With a capacity of over 50kWh, that's equivalent to 4166 Ah at 12V, so no big deal to top up the small 20Ah startup battery or the 100Ah leisure battery every so often.

 

[Neilh]

I’m of the opinion that there will be plenty of suitable EV base vehicles from which to make motorhome and that these are likely to come from China, or Korea. I’d be astounded if China doesn’t produce good quality mainstream motorhomes for European market and given that most of the development is going into EV’s it follows that theses will be EV. UK is a very small part of a global market.
The potential difficulties in charging EV’s won’t be a consideration for such manufacturers, it’s outside of their scope, they’ll expect the local governments to implement.
I’m sure that ice powered vehicles will continue to be used years after 2035, but parts, available skilled labour and legislation will slowly kill them.

Neil

 

[autorouter]

I’m sure that ice powered vehicles will continue to be used years after 2035, but parts, available skilled labour and legislation will slowly kill them.

Look at what happened in Cuba after the US stopped them importing new vehicles. The vehicles that were still there were maintained by an increasingly ingenious back-street industry, who would machine you a new part from a block of solid metal if necessary, to get you back on the road. The vintage vehicles even became a big tourist attraction in Havana.

Such skills have been largely lost in the UK, but a new generation could learn if they put their mind to it. At present, classic cars are lovingly restored, and these skills could be harnessed and expanded to keep present ICEs on the road.

Not that I want them to, I think burning fossil fuels is causing climate change. But developing a spares and repair market is what will happen, I'm sure

 

[The Wino]

Look at what happened in Cuba after the US stopped them importing new vehicles. The vehicles that were still there were maintained by an increasingly ingenious back-street industry, who would machine you a new part from a block of solid metal if necessary, to get you back on the road. The vintage vehicles even became a big tourist attraction in Havana.

Such skills have been largely lost in the UK, but a new generation could learn if they put their mind to it. At present, classic cars are lovingly restored, and these skills could be harnessed and expanded to keep present ICEs on the road.

Not that I want them to, I think burning fossil fuels is causing climate change. But developing a spares and repair market is what will happen, I'm sure

The driver towards the repairers in Cuba though was the unavailability of any new vehicles at a cost that anyone could afford together with an abundance of cheap skilled labour. The conditions here are very dissimilar labour costs a lot and it will be much cheaper to just scrap ice cars than spend a fortune on repairs. Even now with classic cars if you bought a doer upper and paid somewhere to restore it you would be very unlikely to sell it for the total spent and if used as regular daily transport it's unlikely to be financially viable.

 

[The Wino]

So there you have answered the question. Do you charge it or not? It's not like an every day use vehicle where it's on charge for 9 or 10 hours then unplugged and used. I don't use my MOHO every month sometimes, so how long would a full battery charge actually last? No one can say, because the technology doesn't exist yet. What I'm trying to get across is that EV technology is great for small vehicles in daily use, but I'm very sceptical about motorhome use where it can be weeks or months between use.

See the next post. Id charge to between 50and80% and be happy to leave it a couple of months. The limit on an EV is actually the 12v battery no difference to an ice vehicle and if it gets low you can jump start it.

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[VXman]

We took a trip through Germany in March. Lots of free stelplatz around

6 weeks in Portugal - cost us less than £40 in parking.

 

[PlacidoD]

A discussion here with Peter Vaughan from MMM and others re EV MoHos and the future:



Personally I see PVCs as the future both ICE and EV. Builders will have to be more innovative with layouts to make them more Tardis-like.

I can foresee myself having an EV car as a runabout and a 6 metre or 6.3 meter ICE PVC for longer journeys even if not staying in it overnight.

I can also foresee that same PVC as a 4,250kg EV. Those vans already exist as delivery vans. It is inevitable that a small conversion company will at some stage offer the same PVC as a 3,500kg ICE and 4,250kg EV and thing will develop very slowly from there. Those who venture 100 miles in the UK for weekends away will live with that.

Barring a lottery win I shall not be driving an EV PVC. I regularly do Bolton to Newhaven non-stop - 275 miles in 4.25 hours. I cannot see an EV PVC getting near that much before 2035 and when first achieved the price will be eye-watering. I would then need rapid charging facilities in the queue at Newhaven (and other ferry ports) to make sense of an EV PVC purchase.

A final thought. If I were shelling out close to £100k for new or £80k for lightly used PVC in the future it would absolutely have to come with an auto box. Younger drivers will increasingly have only an auto driving licence - inevitable if learning on an EV. So residuals will be better with an auto box as your market will be larger.

 

[The Wino]

A discussion here with Peter Vaughan from MMM and others re EV MoHos and the future:



Personally I see PVCs as the future both ICE and EV. Builders will have to be more innovative with layouts to make them more Tardis-like.

I can foresee myself having an EV car as a runabout and a 6 metre or 6.3 meter ICE PVC for longer journeys even if not staying in it overnight.

I can also foresee that same PVC as a 4,250kg EV. Those vans already exist as delivery vans. It is inevitable that a small conversion company will at some stage offer the same PVC as a 3,500kg ICE and 4,250kg EV and thing will develop very slowly from there. Those who venture 100 miles in the UK for weekends away will live with that.

Barring a lottery win I shall not be driving an EV PVC. I regularly do Bolton to Newhaven non-stop - 275 miles in 4.25 hours. I cannot see an EV PVC getting near that much before 2035 and when first achieved the price will be eye-watering. I would then need rapid charging facilities in the queue at Newhaven (and other ferry ports) to make sense of an EV PVC purchase.

A final thought. If I were shelling out close to £100k for new or £80k for lightly used PVC in the future it would absolutely have to come with an auto box. Younger drivers will increasingly have only an auto driving licence - inevitable if learning on an EV. So residuals will be better with an auto box as your market will be larger.

2035 is 10 years away. Given the changes over the past 3 years I think things are going to change a lot quicker than you think. Why would you need high speed chargers at the ferry port you could charge 5 or 10 miles before. BYD are bringing out their first MW chargers now charging won't take long!

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

2035 is 10 years away. Given the changes over the past 3 years I think things are going to change a lot quicker than you think. Why would you need high speed chargers at the ferry port you could charge 5 or 10 miles before. BYD are bringing out their first MW chargers now charging won't take long!

I agree The Wino .
I actually dont see this as a ICE/EV matter.
For me, its about people who, if their vehicle didn't need to stop for refuelling, they wouldnt take a break at all.

Much better to stop every couple of hours, whether or not a pee is needed, and recharge during that break.

Because we can only refill at refilling stations' locations currently, we shouldn't expect chargers at ports. I think they'd be over-used anyway, by those who leave things to the last minute, or who don't pre-organise.

 

[PlacidoD]

2035 is 10 years away. Given the changes over the past 3 years I think things are going to change a lot quicker than you think. Why would you need high speed chargers at the ferry port you could charge 5 or 10 miles before. BYD are bringing out their first MW chargers now charging won't take long!

Yes I could but that would mean I would have to give myself a 4 hour buffer rather than 2 hours for my 275 mile journey as now to allow for (a) traffic hold ups on my 275 mile journey (b) queues at the charge point (c) traffic hold ups from charge point to ferry queue.

If there were charge points at Newhaven ferry that would help avoid range anxiety. Ideally I would book a recharge bay at the ferry and I could then stick with my two hour buffer as now. Alternative if I could not book but charge points were available there I could head for the port and, if all bays were in use drive elsewhere (logically the nearby Sainsbury's) still sticking with my two hour buffer. (Doubtless I would also have mapped out charge points in Dieppe as well.) At the moment I set out from Bolton with a full tank then top up the half empty tank at Newhaven Sainsbury's. If my buffer gets eaten up with road traffic delays I can always board then fill up in Dieppe - No big deal!

We are not all "gentlemen of leisure". I work fulltime and seek to maximise my holiday length. So time taken from home to Dieppe matters to me.

But all this is pie in the sky. If I cannot make Bolton to Newhaven on one charge then I am not interested in an EV PVC always assuming I had and wanted to spend the money to buy one!

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[Pirate16]

As I see it, there will be plenty of used vehicles and parts support for at least a decade. Petrol and diesel will still be available on forecourts too. I don't think there is any need to think about electric motorhomes just yet - and if anything, hydrogen engine development will probably provide the definitive solution for motorhome use instead of the limitations of electricity.

As I understand it, very large amounts of electricity are required to produce hydrogen so what are the benefits of hydrogen engines over electric motors?

 

[LostinWales]

You should try yachting - the most expensive way to get somewhere for free.

This is a true statement. After owning yachts for more than 30 years, just the 6 grand saved on marinas per year makes it all worth it.

 

[rusted]

The electric Vs ice debate will continue untill ice vehicles are completely banned or ev technology advances to a point that it fulfils the capability of ice.
The hydrogen alternative is interesting in that it is a clean tech at the point of use as are ev's but the generation of that energy ATM is not.
Hydrogen in theory gives the usability of ice vehicles by not having the weight penalty of batteries and by being able to be refuelled quickly. In practice the refuelling quickly is an issue but I expect that will be solvable at some point. Some pilot projects have closed as unviable so there must be issues with the hydrogen fuel concept.
For heavy goods vehicles and imo non pvc motorhomes I doubt that current generation of ev technology will be viable as the range, refueling and unplanned movements don't meet the needs of those users. For pvc's with the new 4.5 tonnes vehicles I can see a viable future if somewhat restricted use with regards to today's ice pvc's.
So the conundrum is
Ice works but some governments want to ban them.
EV tech is not suitable for hgv's (yes there are cases of businesses using them in niche applications).
EV tech won't work for non pvc motorhomes unless the weight rules change to allow for monster battery packs - costs would probably be astronomical.
Hydrogen in theory replaces ice but doesn't look like it will.
So it looks like cars/pvc's will go ev and hgy's will stay ice untill there is a big tech jump. And non pvc motorhomes are stuck in the middle at the whim of whatever government is in power.

 

[PlacidoD]

The electric Vs ice debate will continue untill ice vehicles are completely banned or ev technology advances to a point that it fulfils the capability of ice.
The hydrogen alternative is interesting in that it is a clean tech at the point of use as are ev's but the generation of that energy ATM is not.
Hydrogen in theory gives the usability of ice vehicles by not having the weight penalty of batteries and by being able to be refuelled quickly. In practice the refuelling quickly is an issue but I expect that will be solvable at some point. Some pilot projects have closed as unviable so there must be issues with the hydrogen fuel concept.
For heavy goods vehicles and imo non pvc motorhomes I doubt that current generation of ev technology will be viable as the range, refueling and unplanned movements don't meet the needs of those users. For pvc's with the new 4.5 tonnes vehicles I can see a viable future if somewhat restricted use with regards to today's ice pvc's.
So the conundrum is
Ice works but some governments want to ban them.
EV tech is not suitable for hgv's (yes there are cases of businesses using them in niche applications).
EV tech won't work for non pvc motorhomes unless the weight rules change to allow for monster battery packs - costs would probably be astronomical.
Hydrogen in theory replaces ice but doesn't look like it will.
So it looks like cars/pvc's will go ev and hgy's will stay ice untill there is a big tech jump. And non pvc motorhomes are stuck in the middle at the whim of whatever government is in power.

Just a small correction the new limit (from 10th June) for EV vans (and therefore PVCs) is 4,250kg not 4,500 kg. So driveable on a normal B licence.

 

[rusted]

Yes 4.25T my mistake but tbh bigger battery banks = a more versatile vehicle up to the point that it gets too heavy, not sure what the optimum battery size is but I guess it's 4.25t for Amazon type delivery vans.

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[SpeedyDux]

As I understand it, very large amounts of electricity are required to produce hydrogen so what are the benefits of hydrogen engines over electric motors?

This will not be an either/or issue. The hydrogen is stored energy that can be released by a chemical reaction, with zero exhaust emissions.

The vehicle manufacturer can opt for an ICE using hydrogen as fuel, or an electric traction motor powered by a hydrogen fuel cell instead of a heavy battery. A KERs system in a hybrid hydrogen / HV battery combination would be even more efficient.

As I said in an earlier post, turning surplus electricity from wind farms (when demand is low) into hydrogen to sell as a quite dense energy source for surface transport makes a lot of sense. It seems the right way to reduce the need for fossil fuel for surface transport, including heavy goods vehicles. Otherwise the wind farmers either will take their turbines offline, getting constraint payments from us as compensation (that distorts the energy market), or put some surplus electricity into limited battery storage for resale when the price is right i.e. during high demand. Constraint payments may be seen as a disincentive to manufacture hydrogen.

The UK's "green" future should involve a variety of permissible energy sources for different transport use cases, not a one-size-fits-all mandate for BEVs and pretty much nothing else.

My 2d worth.

 

[cyberyacht]

My current range on a tank full is a bit over 500 miles. PlacidoD's desire for a 275 mile range does not seem unreasonable. Call it 300 to provide a bit of a buffer. That's still a bit of a restriction considering the time it currently takes to recharge from 0-100%. My motorhoming days will be over before a solution is found I suspect.

 

[Wheelnut]

I have been trying to get my head around where motorhomes are going. If I understand correctly in 2030 there will be no new (non electric) motorhomes sold in the UK, so do all the UK motorhome manufactures move into electric, shut up shop or go into repairs/refurb and what happens to our spares/support for existing vehicles.
I'm also not clear if we can continue to import from out side the UK, I believe the EU will continue to manufacture until 2035, so can we import a new or 6 month old vehicle.
Or have I missed something thoughts ?

It only refers to cars not Motorhomes. Don’t compare ev cars with motorhomes thy don’t equate, totally different. Thy will be building diesel Motorhomes for a long time yet, don’t believe everything they tell you about ev cars most is hype.

 

[mikash]

If you have an electric van, every public slow charger becomes a legal overnighting spot.

My current range on a tank full is a bit over 500 miles. PlacidoD's desire for a 275 mile range does not seem unreasonable. Call it 300 to provide a bit of a buffer. That's still a bit of a restriction considering the time it currently takes to recharge from 0-100%. My motorhoming days will be over before a solution is found I suspect.

The BYD 1000-vot architecture allows charging 300 miles in 5 minutes. In real world, not just on paper - there are hundreds of those chargers installed in China already.
Currently best mass produced battery is Nio's 150kWh pack which weights about the same as the current generation of 100kWh packs (650kg) and that pack will almost certainly be outclassed before 2030.
I don't know how long you plan on motorhoming but things are moving pretty fast at the moment so you might be surprised

 

[Anneg]

Our plan is to travel over the next 10 years (both MH and Cruises), then sell the MH and stick with cruises, so fingers crossed our plan will work and the van will be in demand.

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[PlacidoD]

If you have an electric van, every public slow charger becomes a legal overnighting spot.

The BYD 1000-vot architecture allows charging 300 miles in 5 minutes. In real world, not just on paper - there are hundreds of those chargers installed in China already.
Currently best mass produced battery is Nio's 150kWh pack which weights about the same as the current generation of 100kWh packs (650kg) and that pack will almost certainly be outclassed before 2030.
I don't know how long you plan on motorhoming but things are moving pretty fast at the moment so you might be surprised

And I suspect that the price would be a surprise as well - a nasty one!!