Foam Loft Insulation (Lapolla Open Cell) Costs ? Grants? Recommendations ?

[EuroTrotters]

I have been looking at getting our loft insulated in the UK and in Spain.

In the UK, the house is 1990's modern build. I have been told Foam insulation is best.

I was just wondering if there are any grants available as I cannot seem to find any information.

Has anyone had loft insulation of this or any other kind recently ?

I visited a customer today who had Lapolla fitted 2 years ago and seen her heating bills halved. Though it seemed expensive at £2,000 for 34 square meters. She was quoted £2,700 but haggled.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Is it that spray on stuff between the rafters?

If so I wouldnt bother myself.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Some building societies will not give mortgages on properties that have spray foam filling in the roof under the tiles/ underfelt. It does not allow the underside to breathe and can cause rot in the roof trusses best to have an air gap between the underfelt and the insulation apparently.
You just need to research it first.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Thanks

just doing that

Spray foam insulation explained - Which?

Find out about the different types of spray foam, whether spray foam insulation is right for your home and how much spray foam insulation costs.

www.which.co.uk

 

[Silver-Fox]

A cold roof system has to breath.
This will be what you have at the moment.

If we are doing a loft conversation we have to leave an air gap to allow cross ventilation.
We use products such as kingspan to achieve this.

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[CazPaul]

Definite no it’s not a good idea

If a problem arises with the roof it could be a nightmare

Get some sheep’s wool or hemp in between the joists

The reason why old roofs lasted so well is because they could breathe.

 

[EuroTrotters]

A cold roof system has to breath.
This will be what you have at the moment.

If we are doing a loft conversation we have to leave an air gap to allow cross ventilation.
We use products such as kingspan to achieve this.

I am looking at kingSpan too

 

[BusyBuilder]

Install Kingspan between rafters, leave 2" gap between KS and under felt, then put 2" KS under rafters to cover cold spots. Don't forget to tape all joints with silver foil (sticky stuff). If you want, you can put some vents in roof.

 

[dash300]

Some building societies will not give mortgages on properties that have spray foam filling in the roof under the tiles/ underfelt. It does not allow the underside to breathe and can cause rot in the roof trusses best to have an air gap between the underfelt and the insulation apparently.
You just need to research it first.

Absolutely right. I own a particular rental property with this sprayfoam and the loft sweats like mad with condensation during cold weather where loft moisture condenses from the central heating rising to the loft. I have had to cut away regular sections of foam and insert venting spacers to get air flowing through the loft.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I’m just wondering why you are thinking of insulation in the rafters and not just over the joists.

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[EuroTrotters]

I’m just wondering why you are thinking of insulation in the rafters and not just over the joists.

Just trying to get advice on what is best.

Maybe I should take some photographs

 

[EuroTrotters]

Install Kingspan between rafters, leave 2" gap between KS and under felt, then put 2" KS under rafters to cover cold spots. Don't forget to tape all joints with silver foil (sticky stuff). If you want, you can put some vents in roof.

So I think you mean like this (see photo) with 2" Space behind the kingspan and felt.

Then add another layer of 2" (50mm) over the top ?

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

But you need to allow a free air flow between the KS and the underfelt,IE a gap at the bottom and the top.

 

[Minxy]

Ref grants, unless you're on some sort of benefits/low income I seriously doubt if you'll qualify.

 

[TinaLes]

We had a call from "Green Energy Grant" company offering us a new boiler upgrade, plus under floor, plus loft insulation, stating that they would send a "surveyor" before install.
I then questioned what boiler they would fit, an gave them probably too much info on what they would need to replace I.e indirect hot water cylinder, Honeywell H plan valves etc. I was then told "No Problem our engineers do this stuff every day"..."the surveyor will explain everything"
I then said that I would need a power flush before fitting any new boiler as it would be silly to not do this, they then said " we can do this at additional cost, its not something we normally price for".
I then asked what boiler they would fit?, they said an Ideal boiler, but if you want a Vaillant or similar that would be at additional cost.
I was being pressured into giving the a date to install, I then mentioned the "surveyor visit" that hadn't happened, to which I was informed the surveyor visit will happen before the install, but we need you to agree the costs over and above the grant before we send out our fitters.
I the asked how long it would take to install the insulation, plus the boiler change, they said it will all be done in a day, providing you have access to the underfloor of your home.
I said I am am a retired engineer, I fitted the existing boiler & heating system, I know what would be involved in changing the boiler, plus the changes to wiring etc, then it went very quiet.
Nothing happened after that, the phone number went dead, no e-mails were returned even quoting my "Customer Reference Number"

A few weeks later I got a call on the mobile.
Hello Mr ####
We understand that you have recently had insulation fitted under the Gov Green Space Grant system?
Before I could say no we haven't had anything fitted yet!
He then went on to say, the insulation you have had fitted has been found to be unsafe, Carcinogenic and can cause damage in terms of condensation due to lack of natural ventilation, we will come round, remove it completely, and install safe insulation in its place.
Needless to say, I told the guy to just F Off and never call me again you F ing, ambulance chasing right hander, get a proper job.
I know, I know it was over the top for me, but what a scam the whole Green Energy Boiler replacement scheme was.
But no way would I chose to join the ER or EI group of total idiots either.
LES

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[DumfriesDik]

We have had good service from the Energy Savings Trust. Not sure if it is just a Scottish thing or if they work in other parts of the UK as well. Give them a call but be warned, they do ask a lot of questions. But four years ago, they put in a new central heating system FOC.

 

[pampam]

Mines a dorma bungalow so i dont think its very well insulated,the rooms downstairs have higher ceilings than usual,and its got a large lounge that is open plan to the stairs so never gets really warm,with just the central heating on,we put a woodburner in about 17 years ago which warms it lovely ,BUT suddenly ive decided it makes soo much dust im reluctant to put it on (is it my age)? Or the fact i emulsioned this summer,and wood is expensive nowadays

 

[Otter Spotter]

We had a call from "Green Energy Grant" company offering us a new boiler upgrade, plus under floor, plus loft insulation, stating that they would send a "surveyor" before install.
I then questioned what boiler they would fit, an gave them probably too much info on what they would need to replace I.e indirect hot water cylinder, Honeywell H plan valves etc. I was then told "No Problem our engineers do this stuff every day"..."the surveyor will explain everything"
I then said that I would need a power flush before fitting any new boiler as it would be silly to not do this, they then said " we can do this at additional cost, its not something we normally price for".
I then asked what boiler they would fit?, they said an Ideal boiler, but if you want a Vaillant or similar that would be at additional cost.
I was being pressured into giving the a date to install, I then mentioned the "surveyor visit" that hadn't happened, to which I was informed the surveyor visit will happen before the install, but we need you to agree the costs over and above the grant before we send out our fitters.
I the asked how long it would take to install the insulation, plus the boiler change, they said it will all be done in a day, providing you have access to the underfloor of your home.
I said I am am a retired engineer, I fitted the existing boiler & heating system, I know what would be involved in changing the boiler, plus the changes to wiring etc, then it went very quiet.
Nothing happened after that, the phone number went dead, no e-mails were returned even quoting my "Customer Reference Number"

A few weeks later I got a call on the mobile.
Hello Mr ####
We understand that you have recently had insulation fitted under the Gov Green Space Grant system?
Before I could say no we haven't had anything fitted yet!
He then went on to say, the insulation you have had fitted has been found to be unsafe, Carcinogenic and can cause damage in terms of condensation due to lack of natural ventilation, we will come round, remove it completely, and install safe insulation in its place.
Needless to say, I told the guy to just F Off and never call me again you F ing, ambulance chasing right hander, get a proper job.
I know, I know it was over the top for me, but what a scam the whole Green Energy Boiler replacement scheme was.
But no way would I chose to join the ER or EI group of total idiots either.
LES

I wonder if they had put in an invoice to the grant people saying they had fitted your new boiler etc so even if you didn’t pay anything ,they may have got some money anyway, just wondering.

 

[Hagstrom]

Interesting point, Otter Spotter......

 

[Geoff185]

Ref spray insulation a bungalow has just been sold round the corner from us. Previous owner had died and he had the spray foam fitted. Family had to accept an offer way below market value as mortgage could not be obtained on property due to the insulation. New cash buyer has had whole roof taken off and insulation removed, looks to have been an expensive messy job. Don't fit it

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[EuroTrotters]

I wonder if they had put in an invoice to the grant people saying they had fitted your new boiler etc so even if you didn’t pay anything ,they may have got some money anyway, just wondering.

I was thinking the same

 

[Otter Spotter]

We had a call from "Green Energy Grant" company offering us a new boiler upgrade, plus under floor, plus loft insulation, stating that they would send a "surveyor" before install.
I then questioned what boiler they would fit, an gave them probably too much info on what they would need to replace I.e indirect hot water cylinder, Honeywell H plan valves etc. I was then told "No Problem our engineers do this stuff every day"..."the surveyor will explain everything"
I then said that I would need a power flush before fitting any new boiler as it would be silly to not do this, they then said " we can do this at additional cost, its not something we normally price for".
I then asked what boiler they would fit?, they said an Ideal boiler, but if you want a Vaillant or similar that would be at additional cost.
I was being pressured into giving the a date to install, I then mentioned the "surveyor visit" that hadn't happened, to which I was informed the surveyor visit will happen before the install, but we need you to agree the costs over and above the grant before we send out our fitters.
I the asked how long it would take to install the insulation, plus the boiler change, they said it will all be done in a day, providing you have access to the underfloor of your home.
I said I am am a retired engineer, I fitted the existing boiler & heating system, I know what would be involved in changing the boiler, plus the changes to wiring etc, then it went very quiet.
Nothing happened after that, the phone number went dead, no e-mails were returned even quoting my "Customer Reference Number"

A few weeks later I got a call on the mobile.
Hello Mr ####
We understand that you have recently had insulation fitted under the Gov Green Space Grant system?
Before I could say no we haven't had anything fitted yet!
He then went on to say, the insulation you have had fitted has been found to be unsafe, Carcinogenic and can cause damage in terms of condensation due to lack of natural ventilation, we will come round, remove it completely, and install safe insulation in its place.
Needless to say, I told the guy to just F Off and never call me again you F ing, ambulance chasing right hander, get a proper job.
I know, I know it was over the top for me, but what a scam the whole Green Energy Boiler replacement scheme was.
But no way would I chose to join the ER or EI group of total idiots either.
LES

If you saw any of the paperwork and it indicated the grant agency, I would be giving them a call to discuss what transpired, it may be that this firm is wholesale ripping system off, it would be fraud.

 

[BusyBuilder]

So I think you mean like this (see photo) with 2" Space behind the kingspan and felt.

Then add another layer of 2" (50mm) over the top ?

View attachment 559623

Yes, you will have a cold spot at each rafter, so cover the whole area with another 2" KS. KS is worth approx double the thickness of fibreglass wool, you can make it thicker (between the rafters) if your rafters will take it. And as has been pointed out leave a small gap at top and bottom to let air flow.

 

[Reusables]

I don't ours at the beginning of the year..along with everyone else I reckon as most building yards run out.
Just used Wickes and bought the top up rolls .
Only insulated the joists not rafters as there is no point unless yours having a loft conversion.
Went over old insulation then went over the whole roof across the joists.

Only cost about £150 . If there's another lockdown or I get bored I may put another layer over it all..
Upstairs rooms seem warmer..we've only just put the heating on so can't really compare the savings yet.

I could find any grants unless your on benefits

 

[EuroTrotters]

Yes, you will have a cold spot at each rafter, so cover the whole area with another 2" KS. KS is worth approx double the thickness of fibreglass wool, you can make it thicker (between the rafters) if your rafters will take it. And as has been pointed out leave a small gap at top and bottom to let air flow.

So gap between felt 2”
Gap at bottom 2”
Gap at top 2”
More KS on top

I’ve been offered

​

kingspan kooltherm insulation. K15 1200x2400x50mm

Not sure if this is suitable

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[poppycamper]

My 1882 house has NO loft insulation.
Why!!! I have had numorous companies in to quote and all have said the same... can't be done unless you use spray foam.
Sorry not happening.
The ONLY other solution is to totally remove roof and replace after fitting insulation or do same inside and totally strip out internal ceilings.... again not going to happen
Jim jams and Wooly pullies then cause even with heating on its bbbbrrrrrr!!!!

 

[CazPaul]

My 1882 house has NO loft insulation.
Why!!! I have had numorous companies in to quote and all have said the same... can't be done unless you use spray foam.
Sorry not happening.
The ONLY other solution is to totally remove roof and replace after fitting insulation or do same inside and totally strip out internal ceilings.... again not going to happen
Jim jams and Wooly pullies then cause even with heating on its bbbbrrrrrr!!!!

Why can’t you insulate the joists?

 

[poppycamper]

Why can’t you insulate the joists?

Difficult to explain without photos but my upstairs in all in the confines of the roof and all rooms have sloping ceilings.
Therefore there is only about 8" gap between the underside of sloping roof and ceiling and the drop is approx 35'.
In addition once you access loft space at top of roof there is only about 3' headroom in a small triangular space.
Just reread above but not sure it is very clear.

 

[BusyBuilder]

So gap between felt 2”
Gap at bottom 2”
Gap at top 2”
More KS on top

I’ve been offered

​

kingspan kooltherm insulation. K15 1200x2400x50mm

Not sure if this is suitable

Thats the stuff, don't forget the foil for all the joins.

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www.toolstation.com

 

[BusyBuilder]

Difficult to explain without photos but my upstairs in all in the confines of the roof and all rooms have sloping ceilings.
Therefore there is only about 8" gap between the underside of sloping roof and ceiling and the drop is approx 35'.
In addition once you access loft space at top of roof there is only about 3' headroom in a small triangular space.
Just reread above but not sure it is very clear.

I think you mean you have a dormer house with upstairs and very small attic space ?

What I have done, and it's not ideal way, but cut the kingspan slightly narrower than the width between the roof truss and slide sections down the gaps from the attic. Only other way is strip plaster (either plaster board or lath and plaster) insulate and re plaster board.

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