fiat shocks (1 Viewer)

[highwood122]

i own a weinsberg 650 meg a class,its on a fiat 2021 chassis,it drives ok but for the banging and crashing over potholes and minor road imperfections. my question is, has anyone swapped out the original shock absorbers for a supposedly top of the range replacement and if so did it make any improvement to comfort.just this one modification i am interested in at the moment

 

[Figaro]

What tyres do you have and at what pressure ?
Michelin Agilis CP are notorious for this noisy trait.

 

[peterc10]

Yep, check your tyre pressures. Most converter;s recommendations are much too high. If you have Continental Tyres get to a weighbridge in full touring trim and get them to weigh each axle. Then contact Continental, tell them what tyres you have and your axle weights and they will recommend tyre pressures. Their figure for the front axle was 20psi lower than what Hymer recommended. My fillings are no longer falling out.

 

[Guigsy]

I've got a Geist 6m A-class. When I first got it, I was disappointed by how noisy it was. So much body shudder on every minor imperfection.

After about a month of not getting used to it, I replaced the Michelin Agilis Camper tyres with Continental 4Seasons. Using the Continental handbook, I can now run 50psi rather than the 80psi the Campers needed. This significantly improved things.

I added some sound insulation behind the large swathes of plastic on the A-class cab dashboard extensions. This improved things a little.

Finally I swapped to VB Full Air suspension a couple of months ago. Ridiculously expensive at £8k. The step change is quite big, a larger improvement than the tyres gave. The ride is probably as good as a cheap car, so it's certainly no limo. But it's a lot more relaxing to drive than it was. I'm not continuously scanning the road ahead to dodge every little crack like I was.

Biggest reduction in road rattle? Drive abroad. We went away for a few weeks last year (before I got the air suspension). The moment we drove out of the tunnel exit back into Blighty, we noticed the over cab bed squeaking again, which we'd barely heard for weeks.

 

[RioRob]

I have a newish Benivan PVC rated at 3500kg max. I found that the ride was rough and investigation showed the suspension was low such that the rear springs were virtually flat and the axle was almost resting on the bump stops.
I was told it's a common "feature" with these PVCs as after all they are converted delivery vans. As such, the suspension is specced to be driven between empty and fully loaded and most of the time they won't be fully loaded.
However, once they're converted they are driven close to fully loaded all the time so the suspension gets close to bottoming out! Of course, most converters aren't going to uprate the suspension due to cost.
So I had semi air fitted which gives adjustable ride height and it's definitely improved the ride and reduced the rolling on roundabouts & corners.
I decided to leave my tyre pressures as recommended by the manufacturer as reducing the pressure may soften the ride further but may compromise safety.

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[Mikeco]

I have a newish Benivan PVC rated at 3500kg max. I found that the ride was rough and investigation showed the suspension was low such that the rear springs were virtually flat and the axle was almost resting on the bump stops.
I was told it's a common "feature" with these PVCs as after all they are converted delivery vans. As such, the suspension is specced to be driven between empty and fully loaded and most of the time they won't be fully loaded.
However, once they're converted they are driven close to fully loaded all the time so the suspension gets close to bottoming out! Of course, most converters aren't going to uprate the suspension due to cost.
So I had semi air fitted which gives adjustable ride height and it's definitely improved the ride and reduced the rolling on roundabouts & corners.
I decided to leave my tyre pressures as recommended by the manufacturer as reducing the pressure may soften the ride further but may compromise safety.

The bump stops are actually spring assisters and are connected top and bottom but I, like many others have removed them and put in air suspension which is much better.

 

[highwood122]

thanks for the replies, i have continentals,weighed the front and back axles and adjusted tyre pressures to suit, some improvement, there is plenty of room for up and down movement of the axle and i am not excited about writing off another 8k when my tyres are worn out will try toyo option maybe.i just wondered if there is any cred to my original question as our american cousins seem to think. in 2000 i bought a renault master PVC that had michelin agilis and was better, enjoyed it for 20 years

 

[gus-lopez]

The only shock absorbers that would make a difference imo are air shocks.

 

[RioRob]

The bump stops are actually spring assisters and are connected top and bottom but I, like many others have removed them and put in air suspension which is much better.

The bump stops were not connected at the bottom on my van or any others I've seen on videos when I was researching the semi air I've had fitted in place of the bump stops.

 

[jezport]

I have full air suspension, it transforms the handling into a safer smoother drive

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[Mikeco]

The bump stops were not connected at the bottom on my van or any others I've seen on videos when I was researching the semi air I've had fitted in place of the bump stops.

I assumed that it was a Sevel build I.e Fiat / Peugeot/ Citroen but I must have wrongly assumed.

 

[mikebeaches]

I've always been a bit disappointed by the ride quality of the rear suspension - crashing and banging - on all three Fiat-based motorhomes we've owned.

Suspect, the reinforced walls of the camper tyres (both Michelin and Continental), are responsible to some extent. Always try to run at the lowest safe pressures, which helps a little. But since our current van will be seven years old in the summer, I reckon it's perhaps worth trying some 'non-camper' tyres, to see if that improves things.

 

[RioRob]

I assumed that it was a Sevel build I.e Fiat / Peugeot/ Citroen but I must have wrongly assumed.

Your assumption was correct Mike, my Benivan is a 2022 Fiat Ducato based campervan.

 

[Landy Andy]

The bump stops were not connected at the bottom on my van or any others I've seen on videos when I was researching the semi air I've had fitted in place of the bump stops.

Fiat bump stops, or spring assisters, are only fixed at the top, not the bottom.

 

[DDJC]

i own a weinsberg 650 meg a class,its on a fiat 2021 chassis,it drives ok but for the banging and crashing over potholes and minor road imperfections. my question is, has anyone swapped out the original shock absorbers for a supposedly top of the range replacement and if so did it make any improvement to comfort.just this one modification i am interested in at the moment

We had this on our Fiat Ducato chassis with Michelin Camper tyres. On concrete sections of motorways, we were hitting the bump stops every time - so much so that I was worried that we were damaging the chassis.

So I went to the lovely people at the motorhome workship, Goring near Worthing on the south coast. They fitted a VB semi air with compressor and dashboard gauges and controls. Cost was about £1100 I think. There were five consequences of this:

1. The potholes, bumps and bad roads are much much smoother. Has to be a big hole before we feel it now.
2. The bus is steady as a rock on the roads, both when going round lorries and when cornering. The difference is really astonishing for us, but some folk have not found a massive difference
3. When jacked up, we look under-loaded to Les Gendarmes & La Carabinieri
4. As each rear wheel can be inflated/deflated independently, we find that we can often level without ramps.
5. The Cremant de Loire doesn't spray everywhere when we open it on arrival.

If you know which end of a spanner is the business end, you might be able to install it yourself. I am a DIY arse, so I paid for it.

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[CazPaul]

I've got a Geist 6m A-class. When I first got it, I was disappointed by how noisy it was. So much body shudder on every minor imperfection.

After about a month of not getting used to it, I replaced the Michelin Agilis Camper tyres with Continental 4Seasons. Using the Continental handbook, I can now run 50psi rather than the 80psi the Campers needed. This significantly improved things.

I added some sound insulation behind the large swathes of plastic on the A-class cab dashboard extensions. This improved things a little.

Finally I swapped to VB Full Air suspension a couple of months ago. Ridiculously expensive at £8k. The step change is quite big, a larger improvement than the tyres gave. The ride is probably as good as a cheap car, so it's certainly no limo. But it's a lot more relaxing to drive than it was. I'm not continuously scanning the road ahead to dodge every little crack like I was.

Biggest reduction in road rattle? Drive abroad. We went away for a few weeks last year (before I got the air suspension). The moment we drove out of the tunnel exit back into Blighty, we noticed the over cab bed squeaking again, which we'd barely heard for weeks.

Was it worth the 8k though?

 

[Shrimp]

Our older Hymer is a lot quieter after replacing the front shocks with new shock and heavy duty springs, end of last year and higher load-rated tyres.
Manic did it himself,

 

[L' Hobo]

We had this on our Fiat Ducato chassis with Michelin Camper tyres. On concrete sections of motorways, we were hitting the bump stops every time - so much so that I was worried that we were damaging the chassis.

So I went to the lovely people at the motorhome workship, Goring near Worthing on the south coast. They fitted a VB semi air with compressor and dashboard gauges and controls. Cost was about £1100 I think. There were five consequences of this:

1. The potholes, bumps and bad roads are much much smoother. Has to be a big hole before we feel it now.
2. The bus is steady as a rock on the roads, both when going round lorries and when cornering. The difference is really astonishing for us, but some folk have not found a massive difference
3. When jacked up, we look under-loaded to Les Gendarmes & La Carabinieri
4. As each rear wheel can be inflated/deflated independently, we find that we can often level without ramps.
5. The Cremant de Loire doesn't spray everywhere when we open it on arrival.

If you know which end of a spanner is the business end, you might be able to install it yourself. I am a DIY arse, so I paid for it.

Shortly after I bought my 2007 Ducato I change my rear shocks and fitted a Dunlop semi air system.
Both jobs are reasonably easy especially if you have access to a pit.
I run my 15" camper tyres at 60psi all round and, so far, have never had a problem.

PS. 'Bump stops' on Fiats are classed as 'Spring Assisters' and are not a MOT failure if touching at the bottom but would still recommend fitting semi-air.

 

[Guigsy]

Was it worth the 8k though?

I'm fully aware that it adds almost nothing to resale value and I'll probably need an expensive fix in a few years. The way I use the van, I tend to move on every day. So reducing driving stress is important. We also park in Aires and 'no camping behaviour' type spots where having a bit of leveling is handy. So if I keep the van for a few years, yes.

 

[Mike Warland]

I'm fully aware that it adds almost nothing to resale value and I'll probably need an expensive fix in a few years. The way I use the van, I tend to move on every day. So reducing driving stress is important. We also park in Aires and 'no camping behaviour' type spots where having a bit of leveling is handy. So if I keep the van for a few years, yes.

Why will you need an expensive fix in a few years ?

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[These Big Adventures]

Reducing the pressures seemed to help for me. I then also swapped out the standard shocks and springs. Deals with minor imperfections a lot better, less pitching into corners and more stable at high speeds. Obviously I had heavy duty springs fitted at the same time so can't separate these improvements. I had koni special active shocks fitted along with Kilen springs.

 

[Guigsy]

Why will you need an expensive fix in a few years ?

I just expect the airbags will be higher maintenance than a spring.

 

[L' Hobo]

I just expect the airbags will be higher maintenance than a spring.

In my experience in the Coach & Bus industry, neither metal springs or airbag suspension like road grit trapped within them or vehicle standing idle dirty.
People sometimes forget, when they have the pressure washer going, to do underneath (gently) as well as the bodywork.

If one wants to help rear suspension, the best thing to do is fit good 'mud-flaps', especially to the front wheels.
This cuts down on the amount of muck flung at, and wedged into, either type at the rear.

 

[DucatoMan2]

Worth taking a look at Sumo springs here and on youtube.
I'm pleased with the result.

 

[highwood122]

thank you for all the well intentioned answers to my post, i am even more in the dark now.there have been plenty of heavy luxury car built in the last 50 years. that must have been more comfortable than this offering by fiat. i think the main offender is the tyres followed by the back axle being allowed to bump into a lump of hard rubber [ the bump stop] not exactly progressive damping.also the shock absorbers are not vertical which is bad policy imho, i have weighed the vehicle fore and aft and adjusted the tyre pressures, when next i drag this bone shaker out of the shed i will check if the axle hits the bump stops and maybe fit comfort semi air

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[peterc10]

thank you for all the well intentioned answers to my post, i am even more in the dark now.there have been plenty of heavy luxury car built in the last 50 years. that must have been more comfortable than this offering by fiat. i think the main offender is the tyres followed by the back axle being allowed to bump into a lump of hard rubber [ the bump stop] not exactly progressive damping.also the shock absorbers are not vertical which is bad policy imho, i have weighed the vehicle fore and aft and adjusted the tyre pressures, when next i drag this bone shaker out of the shed i will check if the axle hits the bump stops and maybe fit comfort semi air

But motorhomes are not based upon heavy luxury (and expensive) cars. AFAIK, unlike luxury cars, no motorhome is entirely built by one manufacturer. Instead they are based upon a bought in commercial van or truck chassis and then converted into a motorhome unless they are very small campervans. That applies even to the very expensive luxury liners. There are expensive ways to improve the ride by spending more money, but it's still a van or a truck at the end of the day.

 

[L' Hobo]

thank you for all the well intentioned answers to my post, i am even more in the dark now.there have been plenty of heavy luxury car built in the last 50 years. that must have been more comfortable than this offering by fiat. i think the main offender is the tyres followed by the back axle being allowed to bump into a lump of hard rubber [ the bump stop] not exactly progressive damping.also the shock absorbers are not vertical which is bad policy imho, i have weighed the vehicle fore and aft and adjusted the tyre pressures, when next i drag this bone shaker out of the shed i will check if the axle hits the bump stops and maybe fit comfort semi air

As you have weighed your vehicle, how much payload have you?
On some vehicles, it can be exceeding small so, if your vehicle is running at maximum load and the suspension is at it's maximum tolerance, one must expect a hard ride if the 'spring assisters' are touching. or near, the axle.

Most M/H's run near to there maximum load most of the time, commercial vehicles don't.

 

[Guigsy]

But motorhomes are not based upon heavy luxury (and expensive) cars. AFAIK, unlike luxury cars, no motorhome is entirely built by one manufacturer. Instead they are based upon a bought in commercial van or truck chassis and then converted into a motorhome unless they are very small campervans. That applies even to the very expensive luxury liners. There are expensive ways to improve the ride by spending more money, but it's still a van or a truck at the end of the day.

Agreed. They are based on a van that's designed to be cheap with plenty of load capacity. Driver comfort and road handling are a long way down the list of requirements for a van. Motorhomes don't make up enough of the target market for the manufacturer to consider our needs much in the base design.

 

[L' Hobo]

Agreed. They are based on a van that's designed to be cheap with plenty of load capacity. Driver comfort and road handling are a long way down the list of requirements for a van. Motorhomes don't make up enough of the target market for the manufacturer to consider our needs much in the base design.

with respect, why should they?
We pay thousands of pounds for a vehicle, so should not be up to the converter to change the shocks etc to give the customer, (from whom they are making a nice profit,) a pleasurable ride?

They do not, for the simple reason that, the vehicle would cost more and, the already abysmal payload, would be even less.

 

[mitzimad]

fiats are designed to run with the rubbers touching the spring they are assisters not bump stops