Exciting news from the EU

[PeterE1947]

I have just received the latest Reismobil International News Email and it seems to suggest that the EU is actively pushing a revised legislation concerning the weight limit for all motor homes. It is going to lift the current weight limit of 3.5 tonnes to 4.25 tonnes. The article is giving the impression that it is imminent. (I thought of copying the article but didn't because of copyright laws) It also suggests that a practical test and or a written test might be required.
I wonder how long it will take the UK to adopt this new legislation?

 

[Lenny HB]

I think from Jan 1st EU countries had 2 years to implement it, so far only Spain going ahead.
UK not in the EU we can only hope we follow suit.

 

[WESTY66]

It will all mean next to nothing unless the traffic regulations lift everything up from 3.5t to 4.25t ie speed limits, vignettes, go box’s etc
If they do I will be tempted to get a 4.25t van, as I can’t realistically downplate this one

 

[nicholsong]

Latest EU release (24th March?) says 4 years to implement.

 

[Lenny HB]

Latest EU release (24th March?) says 4 years to implement.

So already gone out by 2 years probably be 10 years before it gets implemented.

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[CazPaul]

It will all mean next to nothing unless the traffic regulations lift everything up from 3.5t to 4.25t ie speed limits, vignettes, go box’s etc
If they do I will be tempted to get a 4.25t van, as I can’t realistically downplate this one

What’s the advantage though if you have your entitlement for 7.5 tonnes?

 

[OldCodger]

I have just received the latest Reismobil International News Email and it seems to suggest that the EU is actively pushing a revised legislation concerning the weight limit for all motor homes. It is going to lift the current weight limit of 3.5 tonnes to 4.25 tonnes. The article is giving the impression that it is imminent. (I thought of copying the article but didn't because of copyright laws) It also suggests that a practical test and or a written test might be required.
I wonder how long it will take the UK to adopt this new legislation?

Already the case here in Portugal - Motorhomes are a special case and you can drive a 4,250 kg vehicle providing it is converted “exclusively for accommodation”

 

[WESTY66]

What’s the advantage though if you have your entitlement for 7.5 tonnes?

Non not in this country anyway! As I mentioned above if they don’t increase the 3.5t threshold for speed limits and vignettes in European countries it’s absolutely no advantage for me at all!!
If they put it up to 4.25t for vignettes etc instead of having go box’s and the like I’d probably get a 4.25t van

 

[CazPaul]

Non not in this country anyway! As I mentioned above if they don’t increase the 3.5t threshold for speed limits and vignettes in European countries it’s absolutely no advantage for me at all!!
If they put it up to 4.25t for vignettes etc instead of having go box’s and the like I’d probably get a 4.25t van

Would it be worth though the hassle and possible cost of another van just to save a few quid on the odd time of visiting Austria etc

 

[WESTY66]

Would it be worth though the hassle and possible cost of another van just to save a few quid on the odd time of visiting Austria etc

It’s not just Austria that has the box, it’s Slovenia, Austria, Czech, Hungary Poland and prob more that I don’t know about as when I retire I will be visiting all these countries in depth

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[nicholsong]

It’s not just Austria that has the box, it’s Slovenia, Austria, Czech, Hungary Poland and prob more that I don’t know about as when I retire I will be visiting all these countries in depth

Austria is the really expensive one compared with the rest.

Poland is not too bad and Slowakia cost us about £15 for 10 days?

 

[WESTY66]

Austria is the really expensive one compared with the rest.

It’s not really the money Geoff, it’s the faff and should anything go wrong, there’s no redress 99% of the time, especially with the Austrians

 

[nicholsong]

It’s not really the money Geoff, it’s the faff and should anything go wrong, there’s no redress 99% of the time, especially with the Austrians

I agree with you about the 'faff', particularly Austria. They charge minimum for top-up of €75 even if one only needs €10 and claiming back is a pain.

Poland, is easy as there is no box now (changed to GPS about 3 years ago), just a GPS App on the phone, which one tops-up.

Slowakia is the easiest - no box, stop at office, pay for days you want, reg no. is entered into ANPR camera computer.

Italy is booths, which one can get sticker for, but tolls not very expensive.

Greece is also booths.

It must be murder for tramping truck drivers.

 

[Lenny HB]

Already the case here in Portugal - Motorhomes are a special case and you can drive a 4,250 kg vehicle providing it is converted “exclusively for accommodation”

I thought that only applied to residents who passed their test in the 70's.

 

[pappajohn]

I think the weight increase is for electric vans, not fossil fueled.
Without a weight increase an electric motorhome stumbles at the first hurdle with the extra weight of batteries eating into payload.
A new/replacement licence will most likely have a code stating EVs only at 4.25t in the same way a 7.5t grandfather C1E does now

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[Lenny HB]

I think the weight increase is for electric vans, not fossil fueled.
Without a weight increase an electric motorhome stumbles at the first hurdle with the extra weight of batteries eating into payload.
A new/replacement licence will most likely have a code stating EVs only at 4.25t in the same way a 7.5t grandfather C1E does now

It is for EV's Ambulances & Motorhomes.

 

[OldCodger]

I thought that only applied to residents who passed their test in the 70's.

I’m checking carefully but my understanding of the rules are


Para saber o que se pode conduzir com a carta de condução de categoria B, basta procurar o enquadramento legal no Regulamento da Habilitação Legal para Conduzir do Decreto-Lei n.º 138/2012, de 05 de julho.

E autocaravanas, posso conduzir?
Sim, desde que o peso bruto não seja superior a 4250 kg. De acordo com o Decreto-lei n.º 138/2012 acima citado, mais concretamente graças ao ponto 2 do artigo 21º, “a condução de veículos com massa máxima autorizada superior a 3500 kg e até 4250 kg pode ser exercida por titulares de carta de condução da categoria B com mais de 21 anos e pelo menos 3 anos de habilitação”.

Hope your Portuguese legalise us up to scratch !

 

[Roby2008]

I have just received the latest Reismobil International News Email and it seems to suggest that the EU is actively pushing a revised legislation concerning the weight limit for all motor homes. It is going to lift the current weight limit of 3.5 tonnes to 4.25 tonnes. The article is giving the impression that it is imminent. (I thought of copying the article but didn't because of copyright laws) It also suggests that a practical test and or a written test might be required.
I wonder how long it will take the UK to adopt this new legislation?

Germans being Germans, extra training and a test will be required (unless it is an EV then no test), implementation could take until 2030 and Toll weight limits and speed limits for anything over 3.5 will not change.......they havent thrown in a medical requirement yet but they probably will, it will then equal the current C1 requirements.

 

[Lenny HB]

DDidn't @

I’m checking carefully but my understanding of the rules are


Para saber o que se pode conduzir com a carta de condução de categoria B, basta procurar o enquadramento legal no Regulamento da Habilitação Legal para Conduzir do Decreto-Lei n.º 138/2012, de 05 de julho.

E autocaravanas, posso conduzir?
Sim, desde que o peso bruto não seja superior a 4250 kg. De acordo com o Decreto-lei n.º 138/2012 acima citado, mais concretamente graças ao ponto 2 do artigo 21º, “a condução de veículos com massa máxima autorizada superior a 3500 kg e até 4250 kg pode ser exercida por titulares de carta de condução da categoria B com mais de 21 anos e pelo menos 3 anos de habilitação”.

Hope your Portuguese legalise us up to scratch !

Didn't JJ get done for driving his van that was over 3.5t & had to downsize.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Already the case here in Portugal - Motorhomes are a special case and you can drive a 4,250 kg vehicle providing it is converted “exclusively for accommodation”

Wish I knew that the other day.

I was parked next to a Brit with a 3.5t Portuguese Motorhome. He’s struggling with payload

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[OldCodger]

Didn't @JJ get done for driving his van that was over 3.5t & had to downsize.

Eek. I hope he can shed some light! I found the relevant law and asked my mate at Google to translate it. This is for Portuguese li cence holders not for someone driving on another countries licence

Article 21
Other requirements for obtaining driving licences
1 - Without prejudice to the other requirements, obtaining the categories of driving licence mentioned in the following paragraphs also depends on:
a) Categories C1, C, D1 and D, on holding a valid driving licence for category B;
b) Categories BE, C1E, CE, D1E and DE, possession of a valid driving licence for categories B, C1, C, D1 and D, respectively.


2 - The driving of vehicles with a maximum authorised mass of more than 3500 kg and up to 4250 kg may be carried out by holders of category B driving licences who are over 21 years old and have at least 3 years of qualification in that category, provided that these vehicles:
a) Are intended exclusively for recreational purposes or to be used for social purposes pursued by non-commercial organisations;
b) Do not permit the carriage of more than nine passengers, including the driver, or goods of any kind other than those indispensable to the use assigned to them.

 

[barryd]

I thought the big advantage of this happening here would be no need for medicals and tests when you turn 70 to drive a 4.25t van. Long way for me being a young whippersnapper of course. It would be a good move though as far too many 3.5t vans running around with virtually no payload. I already have a 4.25t van though.

 

[Minxy]

DDidn't @

Didn't JJ get done for driving his van that was over 3.5t & had to downsize.

Eek. I hope he can shed some light!

Yes he did get done, he was at a supermarket and had a prang with a car so the police were called. His docs were checked and as he didn't have a license to drive over 3.5t he had to get another smaller MH/camper I believe, it was a few years ago.

He blocked me a while back probably because of saying FB pies were crap so I can't search for it for you.

 

[G1969]

It’s not just Austria that has the box, it’s Slovenia, Austria, Czech, Hungary Poland and prob more that I don’t know about as when I retire I will be visiting all these countries in depth

Ady, what is the best way of getting the go box for Austria, as were are hoping to go in June as part of our Germany/Switzerland trip.

 

[WESTY66]

Ady, what is the best way of getting the go box for Austria, as were are hoping to go in June as part of our Germany/Switzerland trip.

I’ve never got one, always kept off the motorways and expressways

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[Roby2008]

Ady, what is the best way of getting the go box for Austria, as were are hoping to go in June as part of our Germany/Switzerland trip.

Go to the ASFINAG website, the official controller of the Austrian autobahns...

 

[Fragle]

You do realise the only reason this govement and Rachel from accounts will change to 4.25t is the increase in revenue.

As soon as they introduce it you can bet that all motorhomes that have a reduced road tax at £165 (phgv) will be reclassified.

Mind you it may be worth it just not to have a bloody Angles mort sticker in France.

 

[OldCodger]

You do realise the only reason this govement and Rachel from accounts will change to 4.25t is the increase in revenue.

As soon as they introduce it you can bet that all motorhomes that have a reduced road tax at £165 (phgv) will be reclassified.

Mind you it may be worth it just not to have a bloody Angles mort sticker in France.

Sadly it’s only the licence change, all the other weight related limits (like tolls, angle morts will still apply.

 

[gus-lopez]

I think the weight increase is for electric vans, not fossil fueled.
Without a weight increase an electric motorhome stumbles at the first hurdle with the extra weight of batteries eating into payload.
A new/replacement licence will most likely have a code stating EVs only at 4.25t in the same way a 7.5t grandfather C1E does now

No it applies to all fuel types, be they ev's, vans, ambulances & motorhomes.

Eek. I hope he can shed some light! I found the relevant law and asked my mate at Google to translate it. This is for Portuguese li cence holders not for someone driving on another countries licence

Article 21
Other requirements for obtaining driving licences
1 - Without prejudice to the other requirements, obtaining the categories of driving licence mentioned in the following paragraphs also depends on:
a) Categories C1, C, D1 and D, on holding a valid driving licence for category B;
b) Categories BE, C1E, CE, D1E and DE, possession of a valid driving licence for categories B, C1, C, D1 and D, respectively.


2 - The driving of vehicles with a maximum authorised mass of more than 3500 kg and up to 4250 kg may be carried out by holders of category B driving licences who are over 21 years old and have at least 3 years of qualification in that category, provided that these vehicles:
a) Are intended exclusively for recreational purposes or to be used for social purposes pursued by non-commercial organisations;
b) Do not permit the carriage of more than nine passengers, including the driver, or goods of any kind other than those indispensable to the use assigned to them.

They appear to be the new rules?

 

[CAB96]

From the press release :

"New rules will also be introduced allowing drivers holding a category B driving licence to, after some targeted training or testing decided for by the Member State, acquire additional rights to drive heavy motor caravans."

Available here:

The Commission welcomes provisional agreement on modernised driving licences rules

The Commission welcomes the provisional agreement reached yesterday between the European Parliament and the Council on its initiative to modernising EU driving licence rules.

transport.ec.europa.eu

As a reminder, here is the process, pasted from my previous post on the subject:

This is the EU Parliament site for the legislation:
Procedure File: 2023/0053(COD) | Legislative Observatory | European Parliament
European Parliament Legislative Observatory Procedure
https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/en/procedure-file?reference=2023/0053(COD)

The EU Commission proposed a text (which included B licence allowance of 4250kg for 'alternately fuelled' vehicles);
The EU Parliament proposed amendments (which included B licence allowance of 4250kg for special purpose (ambulances etc.) including motor caravans);
The Parliament Committee voted to commence the Trilogue (October 2024).
Now the negotiations start - the Commission, the Parliament, and the EU Council (the Member States) start a discussion and agree a text.


There is not usually a timetable, but it usually takes some months. We have no way of knowing if the 4250 kg will be agreed. I reckon second half of this year before we know what is in the agreed text.

[this is now agreed, so we move on to the next part of the timetable]

There's a whole load of other stuff on digital licences, and various other updates.

In summary, the EU are not there yet. Even when the '4th Directive' is published, Member States have 2 years to put it into their own legislation, and a further year to implement.

If the UK are going to follow, it's going to be even longer.

So, the Council (Member States) have to agree, which is likely, then a couple of months for publication, then the 2 years + 1 year.

And then the UK will start wondering if its a good idea!

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