ETIAS & third country passport holder travelling with Schengen passport holder (1 Viewer)

[Nigel Crompton]

I think there are funsters, British passport holders, who travel with partners who are Schengen passport holders. This permits the 'third country' passport holder to bypass the 90/180 rules.

Once ETIAS is implemented, unless this situation has been factored in, the computer klaxon is likely to go off.

Anyone know if, and what, arrangements will be in place to allow a 'third country' passport holder back in Schengen with a Schengen passport holder, when the former has used the 90/180 allowance?

Hmmm ...

(asking for a friend)

 

[Soycd]

I think there are funsters, British passport holders, who travel with partners who are Schengen passport holders. This permits the 'third country' passport holder to bypass the 90/180 rules.

Once ETIAS is implemented, unless this situation has been factored in, the computer klaxon is likely to go off.

Anyone know if, and what, arrangements will be in place to allow a 'third country' passport holder back in Schengen with a Schengen passport holder, when the former has used the 90/180 allowance?

Hmmm ...

(asking for a friend)

I might be wrong but I heard that if say you are a Brit married to a EU passport holder then when you travel together you get the same rights as the EU passport holder? On the other hand I could have just made that up!

 

[gus-lopez]

I might be wrong but I heard that if say you are a Brit married to a EU passport holder then when you travel together you get the same rights as the EU passport holder? On the other hand I could have just made that up!

You do but the Uk national would still have had to apply for & have an EtiAs. The in/out should stay the same but dates & number of says should be now logged o computer

 

[Soycd]

Can't say I'm looking forward to all this. it will be fine at airports, but how on earth will it work at car ferry terminals or the tunnel? If I'm correct then each person will need to go through facial or finger print recognition equipment? It's bad enough as it is at the moment with border control having to flick through passports to find in/out stamps.

 

[BikerGraham]

What’s the latest news on when they plan to implement these protocols ?

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[hja]

October 6 th for EES and next year for etias.

 

[BikerGraham]

October 6 th for EES and next year for etias.

Thanks. We travel out 11th September and back 10th October so will miss it for this next trip then.

 

[Nigel Crompton]

I might be wrong but I heard that if say you are a Brit married to a EU passport holder then when you travel together you get the same rights as the EU passport holder? On the other hand I could have just made that up!

I think that's what I said in the first line of my post ....

 

[Carpmart]

I’m hoping (yes hoping ) that they have some way to flag I’m travelling with my EU Spouse and thus making me easy to identify as a bona fide overstayer.

I’ve had no problems to date and I’m currently in my fourth period of overstaying and breaching 90/180 since Brexit. We return early June!

We leave for our next long trip late August and won’t be travelling back properly until June ‘25… hopefully ‘it’s’ all sorted by the time we come back, although I can imagine the border crossing being ‘interesting’ if ETIAS has been running for eight months before I cross back… hey ho!

 

[Nigel Crompton]

You do but the Uk national would still have had to apply for & have an EtiAs. The in/out should stay the same but dates & number of says should be now logged o computer

Exactly. But what I'm curious about is will they log the fact that the ETIAs holder is travelling with a Schengen passport holder and that the current entry into Schengen doesn't count for the 90/180 rule ?

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[Nigel Crompton]

I’m hoping (yes hoping ) that they have some way to flag I’m travelling with my EU Spouse and thus making me easy to identify as a bona fide overstayer.

I’ve had no problems to date and I’m currently in my fourth period of overstaying and breaching 90/180 since Brexit. We return early June!

We leave for our next long trip late August and won’t be travelling back properly until June ‘25… hopefully ‘it’s’ all sorted by the time we come back, although I can imagine the border crossing being ‘interesting’ if ETIAS has been running for eight months before I cross back… hey ho!

Do you ever travel in Schengen without spouse ? Son and EU partner travel a lot together, obvs, but he travels on business, mainly Germany, and has been unable to convince border officials there (Frankfurt airport usually) that their joint travels together don't count towards his 90 days ...

 

[Carpmart]

Do you ever travel in Schengen without spouse ? Son and EU partner travel a lot together, obvs, but he travels on business, mainly Germany, and has been unable to convince border officials there (Frankfurt airport usually) that their joint travels together don't count towards his 90 days ...

Yes I did a few times last year. I went to Spain twice without the EU element of our duo and then up to northern Norway, again travelling solo. No issues on any of those trips.

 

[Carpmart]

Yes I did a few times last year. I went to Spain twice without the EU element of our duo and then up to northern Norway, again travelling solo. No issues on any of those trips.

TBH, my passport has been stamped in some weird places over the last few years and it’s a dog’s breakfast of stamps as it’s nine years old. I’m getting a new one when we get home in June…

Not sure if that is why I had no issue on solo trips.

 

[jerryz]

I have EU Austrian passport as well as Blitish one ,, so Im free everywhere in EU

However when my wife is travelling with me on her Schengen visa she can only stay the days shown on her visa ,, so if its a 6 months Schengen ,, it will only be the number of days HOTEL days booked per trip last time it was 42 days max it is a pain ....as I have to book hotels and later cancel them each Schengen application is approved , as travelling by car, camping or MoHo is not in the application process,, They want to see HOTEL bookings ,,,bureaucratic idiocy ..

 

[Carpmart]

I have EU Austrian passport as well as Blitish one ,, so Im free everywhere in EU

However when my wife is travelling with me on her Schengen visa she can only stay the days shown on her visa ,, so if its a 6 months Schengen ,, it will only be the number of days HOTEL days booked per trip last time it was 42 days max it is a pain ....as I have to book hotels and later cancel them each Schengen application is approved , as travelling by car, camping or MoHo is not in the application process,, They want to see HOTEL bookings ,,,bureaucratic idiocy ..

What passport does your wife hold?

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[Bailey58]

It's not likely to effect me as we are unlikely to spend more than 90/180 in the EU but, given my wife has a Danish passport, I'm wondering how I would approach this practically when travelling with her should I be inclined to test it.
Directive 2004/38/EC runs to some 20 pages or more depending where you look and the guy at the booth at the Hook of Holland (our next trip) is unlikely to read a lengthy document while scanning my passport (and probably stamping it). I would imagine if I enclosed a brief printout of the relevant section in my passport as we hand both over it may work if he sees the Danish one first and realises he shouldn't be stamping mine.

Section 5 of the EU Monitor covers the basics

 

[Bailey58]

I have EU Austrian passport as well as Blitish one ,, so Im free everywhere in EU

However when my wife is travelling with me on her Schengen visa she can only stay the days shown on her visa ,, so if its a 6 months Schengen ,, it will only be the number of days HOTEL days booked per trip last time it was 42 days max it is a pain ....as I have to book hotels and later cancel them each Schengen application is approved , as travelling by car, camping or MoHo is not in the application process,, They want to see HOTEL bookings ,,,bureaucratic idiocy ..

Are you sure your other one is Australian and not Chinese?

 

[Carpmart]

Are you sure your other one is Australian and not Chinese?

Austrian not Australian.

 

[Carpmart]

It's not likely to effect me as we are unlikely to spend more than 90/180 in the EU but, given my wife has a Danish passport, I'm wondering how I would approach this practically when travelling with her should I be inclined to test it.
Directive 2004/38/EC runs to some 20 pages or more depending where you look and the guy at the booth at the Hook of Holland (our next trip) is unlikely to read a lengthy document while scanning my passport (and probably stamping it). I would imagine if I enclosed a brief printout of the relevant section in my passport as we hand both over it may work if he sees the Danish one first and realises he shouldn't be stamping mine.

Section 5 of the EU Monitor covers the basics

View attachment 893593

You’ve answered your own question.

Your passport will be stamped even when travelling under the exception provided by 2004/38/EC..

 

[Bailey58]

Austrian not Australian.

Austrian then but the question still stands.

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[Bailey58]

You’ve answered your own question.

Your passport will be stamped even when travelling under the exception provided by 2004/38/EC..

So if I ever travel alone how will they know my previous accompanied visits do not come under the 90/180? Confused.

 

[Carpmart]

So if I ever travel alone how will they know my previous accompanied visits do not come under the 90/180? Confused.

There in lays the issue! I suggest you keep some form of record if needed.

Speaking with quite a bit of experience, they really don’t give a toss….

ETIAS will either significantly aid the process or make it a complete nightmare. I’m hoping the former.

 

[Nigel Crompton]

Yes I did a few times last year. I went to Spain twice without the EU element of our duo and then up to northern Norway, again travelling solo. No issues on any of those trips.

But, in any instance when you were solo were you in excess of your 90 in 180 ?

 

[Carpmart]

But, in any instance when you were solo were you in excess of your 90 in 180 ?

Yes I was non compliant (90/180) on all three trips I mention.

I also flew several other times too last year with my spouse, all occasions over 90/180.

 

[nicholsong]

There in lays the issue! I suggest you keep some form of record if needed.

Speaking with quite a bit of experience, they really don’t give a toss….

ETIAS will either significantly aid the process or make it a complete nightmare. I’m hoping the former.

Forget ETIAS, which is basically a visa-waiver system.

But is the EES system going to record visits of a non--EU Citizen when travelling with a EU Citizen/Civil Partner?

Or will it rely, as you suggest, keeping a personal record? If so, it seems open to lots of scams.

I am very dubious as to if and when the EES system will work across all countries. I can foresee either lots of immigration holding areas being filled up with '000s of doubtful cases...

OR

many dubious cases being waived through.

I am glad that My EU Citizen lady and I as a EU country Resident are on paper exempt from both ETIAS and EES, although I am not 100% confident that all border force officers in all countries will be appraised of that.

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[OldCodger]

I think there are funsters, British passport holders, who travel with partners who are Schengen passport holders. This permits the 'third country' passport holder to bypass the 90/180 rules.

Once ETIAS is implemented, unless this situation has been factored in, the computer klaxon is likely to go off.

Anyone know if, and what, arrangements will be in place to allow a 'third country' passport holder back in Schengen with a Schengen passport holder, when the former has used the 90/180 allowance?

Hmmm ...

(asking for a friend)

Here’s chapter and verse

Travel documents for non-EU family members - Your Europe

Travel rights – visa requirements for relatives (family members) of EU nationals travelling to or in Europe

europa.eu

Basically, while travelling together you are good to go, however….

Strictly speaking even EU citizens spending more than 90 days in a country other than their residence must register. There’s two flaws with this.

1) just pop back to another country for a day and the clock restarts
2) There’s no way of checking as there are no passport checks/border controls. It would take a “brush with the authorities” for it to be acted upon.

 

[Carpmart]

Yes the two things are often confused. A right to roam is a right for all EU citizens. That right is conferred to their spouses if travelling with the EU citizen.

The right to remain in a specific EU territory, without registering one’s presence, has always been 90 days. Practically very hard to enforce or check.

 

[BriannYe]

I have EU Austrian passport as well as Blitish one ,, so Im free everywhere in EU

However when my wife is travelling with me on her Schengen visa she can only stay the days shown on her visa ,, so if its a 6 months Schengen ,, it will only be the number of days HOTEL days booked per trip last time it was 42 days max it is a pain ....as I have to book hotels and later cancel them each Schengen application is approved , as travelling by car, camping or MoHo is not in the application process,, They want to see HOTEL bookings ,,,bureaucratic idiocy ..

We never have a problem getting a Schengen visa for the Mrs when applying for visa either French or German just using our motorhome. We do book a CCP when stopping in France (Then cancel it ) to show proof plus give copy of V5 for motorhome.

 

[jerryz]

We never have a problem getting a Schengen visa for the Mrs when applying for visa either French or German just using our motorhome. We do book a CCP when stopping in France (Then cancel it ) to show proof plus give copy of V5 for motorhome.

what nationality is youe wife,, mine is Thai married 28 years but she can only stay in UK 6 months at a time ...so needs Schengen Visa when in EU

 

[The Wino]

Can't say I'm looking forward to all this. it will be fine at airports, but how on earth will it work at car ferry terminals or the tunnel? If I'm correct then each person will need to go through facial or finger print recognition equipment? It's bad enough as it is at the moment with border control having to flick through passports to find in/out stamps.

It should be able to be a lot better without stamps though to search through