Electric help needed. (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

anyone able to offer any advice, long post to give clarity.

Weekend away, heating on electric all night, no previous issues, everything running as it should.

Wake up in the morning, electric has gone off and tripped the site post. reset the post still no electric. changed cables, still no electric. Changed posts still no electric.

Gained access to the circuit breakers and could see its tripped. so reset and left for home, I thought I would therefore wait until I got home and test it out there.

Get home, plug it in at home and no problem whatsoever 230v is fine. I left the heating on very low as I always do at home and forgot about it.

Go out to the van tonight and its tripped again? wont reset, immediately trips each time with the odd spark for good measure. All 12 volts work fine, just the 230 is the issue.

any ideas of what else I can check, or where to start? just curious why it would happen the middle of the night when nothing was happening?

 

[St3v3]

wont reset, immediately trips each time with the odd spark for good measure.

Is the heater still connected? What is tripping? MCB or RCD (RCD will have a test button)

 

[AndyPK]

Do you have some damp in the ‘van cable connection point….?

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[haganap]

Is the heater still connected? What is tripping? MCB or RCD (RCD will have a test button)

RCD

 

[haganap]

Do you have some damp in the ‘van cable connection point….?

No it's insulated

 

[mitzimad]

i would try running something else on 240v in the van see if you get the same result some thing thats roughly the same current draw so a small fan heater this will narrow it down

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[NicM]

Only seen it once, but did have a trip itself trip out with nothing connected to its output, long shot I know but possible.

 

[Spriddler]

Turn everything off, disconnect EHU, reset the trips, reconnect EHU then turn on one item at a time.
(Long shot but I suspect that there's a fault in the 240v heating system or element).

 

[Tombola]

Sounds like your heaters doing one.
Leave it on overnight with something else drawing power.

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[haganap]

ok, thanks so far. but even if the heater is off on the panel it still trips straight away. It basically trips as soon as I untrip it. Its immediate. Therefore I cant isolate anything to try different things.

It's fitted with a full factory fitted victron inverter and that's powering all the sockets on 230 with no issue.

 

[L' Hobo]

Stupid question I know, but have you tried a different EHU lead??

 

[pappajohn]

Unplug hookup
Turn OFF all breakers Inc main switch.
Connect hookup.
Turn on main switch then if it doesn't trip turn on one breaker at a time until it trips.
Which ever one trips that is where the fault lies.

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[haganap]

Hi please see photo of breakers

 

[haganap]

Stupid question I know, but have you tried a different EHU lead??

yes, as said in description , actually tried 3

Unplug hookup
Turn OFF all breakers Inc main switch.
Connect hookup.
Turn on main switch then if it doesn't trip turn on one breaker at a time until it trips.
Which ever one trips that is where the fault lies.

Not sure what you mean John, does the photo I've attached help? each time I plug in, the box on the right goes,

 

[Tombola]

So you need to trace the wires from the right hand trip and see what items it it attached to that is causing it.

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[haganap]

So you need to trace the wires from the right hand trip and see what items it it attached to that is causing it.

Ok, but I think the left hand one is for the factory fitted Victron inverter / charger which is working fine. It actually when I flick it over to power all the van to 230 works fine.

 

[haganap]

Could it be the actual RCD?

 

[Tombola]

It has been known.

So let.me get this right..using the inverter works ok ..the. When you switch over to 230 it trips

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[haganap]

It has been known.

So let.me get this right..using the inverter works ok ..the. When you switch over to 230 it trips

yes it's a Victron inverter/charger. its designed to charge, It also has a switch on it that you switch and everything in the van is then live as if you were on hook up, all that works.

 

[Tombola]

Yeah I'm aware of the victron. Don't is defo the 230 side then.
So my point still stands..find the feed into the right hand trip and there will be the issue. If it has more than one feed from it the. Just disable/check one per time.

Or am I missing something

 

[haganap]

Yeah I'm aware of the victron. Don't is defo the 230 side then.
So my point still stands..find the feed into the right hand trip and there will be the issue. If it has more than one feed from it the. Just disable/check one per time.

Or am I missing something

Ok thanks..

But if there was an issue with a 230 appliance would it not trip the victron? When running that side?

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[TheBig1]

I have the same issue, traced to the automatic changeover from the inverter. As a temporary measure I disconnected the feed from the inverter and connected the trips to a feed direct from the Hook up socket. No more tripping, and if I need the inverter, disconnect one feed and swap over to the other, which works. Really must get round to pulling out the inverter and repairing it

 

[haganap]

Ok thanks to all that have replied.

My plan is to swap over, the rcds. If when done, it still does it, I know its not the RCD...

Prior to this is to check the inlet or plug in to the circuit.

The only issue is, I can't understand why it was all working with no issues and then went and why when home it worked again...

 

[haganap]

just as a side, when I press the test switch on the RCD nothing happens? does it need power to work?

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[St3v3]

just as a side, when I press the test switch on the RCD nothing happens? does it need power to work?

Yes.

 

[funflair]

Hi Paul

The only time we had a similar issue on our Flair it was a dodgy connection on one of the plugs in the distribution box, to be fair to N+B though it was a connection made by somebody installing the inverter not them.

I found it because the wire was burnt

 

[namwaldog]

My plan is to swap over, the rcds.

We had a lighting circuit in some of the outside buildings at home that started tripping illogically.

Spent best part of a day isolating/replacing various components within the circuit but it carried on tripping.

Eventually fit a replacement RCD which solved the problem.

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[eddie]

If it is an inverter charger and is installed (a simplified version) Hook up, RCD1 - Inverter/charger - RDC2 all electrical appliances, which would allow you to use everything on the inverter and the Victron to be able to offer "power assist" (makes us any shortfall of the mains supply) and everything works OK on invert and RCD2 doesn't trip, then the issue is between RCD1 and the inverter.

RCD1 could well have failed and it wouldn't cost a lot to replace it as a matter of course, if this doesn't change the situation you have a spare RCD, but an issue between RCD1 and the Victron, or, within the Victron

Not knowing the installation I am making some basic assumptions

However, if only the 13 amp sockets are supplied by the inverter, the fact that RCD2 doesn't trip has little bearing on the problem and then you will have to investigate the 220v side of the heating, fridge, water heater, battery charging and anything else on the 220v side. This includes the things that we forget about, plug in air fresheners, phone chargers and rechargeable devices such as vacuum cleaners.

 

[berni109]

Firstly as you are finding out thfault finding on relatively complex MH electric's is a laborious process.
Switch everything off in the van. Rcds, circuit breakers, appliances and control panels. Then switch each on and test progressively until u find what's tripping.
Here's a link to everything anybody might want to know about rcds .
Dont mess with mains power unless u are confident. Hth.

 

[haganap]

ok, thank you to everyone for your much needed help when in distress. I'm not an electrician, just some one with a basic understanding. Thanks to eddievanbitz for confirming what I already suspected in how the two RCD's controlled things.

This led me to try as was said before, unplug everything, and start with everything off. Unfortunately as soon as I done that, it still tripped. This led me to think from Eddies explanation it had to be one of only 3 things, the Fridge, The Heater or the charger itself.

I then proceeded to investigate further and check the wiring at the boiler. This is what I found...

Basically, make sure you check your RCD regularly, this could have been close to catching fire, very close, had the RCD not done it's job.

Now though I need to source this board? I have no idea what it is, if it belongs to the fridge or the Heater. The fridge is now not working on electric so its connected to that and of course the boiler definitely isn't as its obviously disconnected.

so part way there although why would this happen?

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