Downsizing

[Peppadog]

Following a heart valve operation two years ago, it took six months of back and forth between me, my GP, the surgeon and DVLA to renew my C1 at 70. I don’t plan to repeat that in, what is now only two years time. So if we have to change ’van - currently a 2007 B654 @3900kgs - we might as well downsize to a campervan. A visit to the NEC show on Friday left us very impress by two or three. The Hymer Grand Canyon was in that group.

Does anyone on here have any real life experience of them?

Please don’t suggest I have my present van down rated. With a 125 equivalent scooter on a rear rack, and fully loaded, I am nearly up to that.

 

[Minxy]

Not a Grand Canyon but from owning 3 PVCs, 1 x 6m and 2 x 6.36m, don't assume that they will weigh less than your current MH unladen as they can actually be heavier than the equivalent sized coachbuilt/a-class, so you might still take a hit in the payload department.

To give an example, the 6m Chausson we had previously had a 700kg payload, the 6m PVC we replaced it with was less than 500kg.

 

[Coolcats]

Following a heart valve operation two years ago, it took six months of back and forth between me, my GP, the surgeon and DVLA to renew my C1 at 70. I don’t plan to repeat that in, what is now only two years time. So if we have to change ’van - currently a 2007 B654 @3900kgs - we might as well downsize to a campervan. A visit to the NEC show on Friday left us very impress by two or three. The Hymer Grand Canyon was in that group.

Does anyone on here have any real life experience of them?

Please don’t suggest I have my present van down rated. With a 125 equivalent scooter on a rear rack, and fully loaded, I am nearly up to that.

We have a AyresRock, it has not given us any issues in the past 4 years of ownership the latest 2023 builds looks like that have taken some of the styling from the N&B range, looking at them they have also upgraded the insulation (not that it is an issue for us). We would not hesitate to have a another HymerCar if we chose to change ours and would consider going up in length and getting a Grand Canyon. Personally I dont think you can go wrong with it.

I am sure others will come along with their favourite makes.

 

[mikebeaches]

Not a Grand Canyon but from owning 3 PVCs, 1 x 6m and 2 x 6.36m, don't assume that they will weigh less than your current MH unladen as they can actually be heavier than the equivalent sized coachbuilt/a-class, so you might still take a hit in the payload department.

To give an example, the 6m Chausson we had previously had a 700kg payload, the 6m PVC we replaced it with was less than 500kg.

I do agree with what Minxy says - it came as something of a surprise to me to find when we changed - as it happens, also from a Chausson coachbuilt, with over 700kg payload on a 3,500kg chassis - to barely 500kg on our current Rapido pvc.

It would be nice to have another 200 or 300kg of payload, but we manage OK. I gave up my C1, although could consider re-applying if need be.

The Hymer Grand Canyon looks appealing, but unfortunately, we couldn't live with the cross-ways double bed, with nocturnal bathroom visits requiring athletic acrobatics in the wee small hours. Fixed singles work well for us, though must admit I could fancy a Mercedes base.

 

[CazPaul]

I went to see one and wasn’t impressed by the build quality but maybe it was because the one I saw wasn’t in good condition, it was on a Merc 4x4 base, plenty wrong with, poor condition inside bits broken.
Hab door wouldn’t open as electric and batteries were flat.

It wouldn’t be my first choice.

There’s a few reports about lack of insulation in some areas when people have removed door lining etc.

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[gus-lopez]

golly has one.

 

[Coolcats]

I went to see one and wasn’t impressed by the build quality but maybe it was because the one I saw wasn’t in good condition, it was on a Merc 4x4 base, plenty wrong with, poor condition inside bits broken.
Hab door wouldn’t open as electric and batteries were flat.

It wouldn’t be my first choice.

There’s a few reports about lack of insulation in some areas when people have removed door lining etc.

People can wreck any MoHo and regarding the lack of insulation Adria and others are exactly the same. the 2023 variants are getting an upgrade in insulation. Having said this we have had no issues with the MoHo being warm in low temps

 

[Peppadog]

All good info. Thanks.

The others we liked incidentally were Possl and the Mailbu top model 600. The later is built on Peugeot, and on a 3300kg chassis. So thats probably out of the running. Possle / Globecar vans seem as rare as hens teeth in the UK. but we often see them abroad. Of course there is also Adria. Very popular and more used models in normal times and lots of dealers, but users and dealers said build quality has gone down in recent years and to look at three year old vans! We liked the Hymer interior the best. Closely followed by the Malibu.

If buying new, it was clear there‘s not much about in 6m vans. The expected delivery of a dealers existing order - so his choice of colour and fitted extras - is most likely May to November 23. A new order into 2024.

 

[pampam]

Ooo the hymer grand canyon sounds lovely

 

[pampam]

If we manage to get another van itll be a pvc for the nippiness

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[hja]

We have a Globecar summit prime, 6.4 m long. We like it. I suspect that one of the reasons there are so few is that there are very few dealers. I don’t know whether there is one near you or not.

 

[Peppadog]

We have a Globecar summit prime, 6.4 m long. We like it. I suspect that one of the reasons there are so few is that there are very few dealers. I don’t know whether there is one near you or not.

Yes its the 6m. Summit prime we saw and liked very much. Same layout but transverse bed.

Have you had it long? Any issues with payload (we would put a scooter on a rear rack that adds 170kg with the rack).

 

[hja]

We had it new in June 2021. A few minor bits & pieces. Problem with the water pump not pumping. Turned out it was stuck, but the dealer replaced it. The Skyroof makes a noise, which we knew before purchase was a possibility. There is a fix which is being installed next month. Also a couple of the small spot lights went on the blink (sorry!) All being fixed under warranty with no problem (only getting the parts from Possle).
Weight-wise, I think you would be in a problem.
We took ours to the weigh bridge, total weight 3420kg. Two adults. Fairly full fuel tank, half tank of fresh water, plus some grey water. Small mobility scooter - 17-20kg. Our van is an automatic (extra 50kg, i think) and we have a windout awning. We have one 11kg & one 6kg gaslow cylinders. Both were pretty much full. Plus all the stuff we needed for a 3/4 day trip. So obviously that gave us 80kg spare, which for us is fine but obviously doesnt give you the 170kg for your scooter.
I dont know how the "empty" weights compare between the 6m and 6.4m vans but the globecar brochure gave a payload of 410kg for the 6m and 490 for our van. I have never been able to find out what Possle include within their weight calculations. Hence we were anxious to get our loaded van to a weighbridge.

 

[Peppadog]

We had it new in June 2021. A few minor bits & pieces. Problem with the water pump not pumping. Turned out it was stuck, but the dealer replaced it. The Skyroof makes a noise, which we knew before purchase was a possibility. There is a fix which is being installed next month. Also a couple of the small spot lights went on the blink (sorry!) All being fixed under warranty with no problem (only getting the parts from Possle).
Weight-wise, I think you would be in a problem.
We took ours to the weigh bridge, total weight 3420kg. Two adults. Fairly full fuel tank, half tank of fresh water, plus some grey water. Small mobility scooter - 17-20kg. Our van is an automatic (extra 50kg, i think) and we have a windout awning. We have one 11kg & one 6kg gaslow cylinders. Both were pretty much full. Plus all the stuff we needed for a 3/4 day trip. So obviously that gave us 80kg spare, which for us is fine but obviously doesnt give you the 170kg for your scooter.
I dont know how the "empty" weights compare between the 6m and 6.4m vans but the globecar brochure gave a payload of 410kg for the 6m and 490 for our van. I have never been able to find out what Possle include within their weight calculations. Hence we were anxious to get our loaded van to a weighbridge.

Thanks. Very useful. Seems like you, Minxy and others have said. Payload might kill this idea. I hope not though.

 

[Minxy]

One thing to consider is that when you have the scooter on the rack* you won't be able to access the rear doors (*unless you get the swing out type which are expensive!). A coachbuilt with a garage won't have these issues and your bike will be protected and you may be able to get one that is no longer than a PVC and rack but with more usable space and better payload.

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[SpeedyDux]

Yes its the 6m. Summit prime we saw and liked very much. Same layout but transverse bed.

Have you had it long? Any issues with payload (we would put a scooter on a rear rack that adds 170kg with the rack).

The practicality of a scooter rack on a PVC would be a challenge anyway. We often need to open the rear doors on ours.

A towbar and scooter trailer could be better at least for UK touring.

 

[Peppadog]

The practicality of a scooter rack on a PVC would be a challenge anyway. We often need to open the rear doors on ours.

A towbar and scooter trailer could be better at least for UK touring.

Yes, we had wondered how often we would need the back doors while the scooter is on the rack. Overnighting is one likelyhood.

We do have a side load trailer. Bought before the rack, and to to carry my Triumph Bonneville. We always use the scooter though. Its fuss free, electric and stores stuff like jackets and helmets for us both. Compared to the rack, the trailer is a pain….

 

[Peppadog]

One thing to consider is that when you have the scooter on the rack* you won't be able to access the rear doors (*unless you get the swing out type which are expensive!). A coachbuilt with a garage won't have these issues and your bike will be protected and you may be able to get one that is no longer than a PVC and rack but with more usable space and better payload.

Minxy. We wanted to look at, what it seems, you have. The Compact i138 Carthago. They didn’t have one! When I asked, I was told no point, as they won’t have any to sell until 2025!!!!

 

[Minxy]

There's one in Classifieds, used admittedly, but still good if that's what you want:

Carthago c-compactline 138

Carthago c-compactline 138 first registered 12/5/2014 Fiat Ducato 2.3 130 bhp 6 speed manual, RHD 34492 miles, Cab A/C, cruise control, DAB radio/CD. Central locking via alarm fob Cat 1 Thatcham alarm fitted incl movement sensors Alko chassis with rear...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Orion]

We always use the scooter though. Its fuss free, electric and stores stuff like jackets and helmets for us both. Compared to the rack, the trailer is a pain….

Can I ask which rear rack you currently have for the scooter and it’s carrying capacity?

Currently researching options for a 125 or similar.

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[Bobbydaisy]

If you want single beds look at the Elddis CV20, 6’2”couches for daytime use when it’s chucking it down outside , at night slide out to give wide single beds with space between for the nighttime loo visits .

 

[Abgs]

Following a heart valve operation two years ago, it took six months of back and forth between me, my GP, the surgeon and DVLA to renew my C1 at 70. I don’t plan to repeat that in, what is now only two years time. So if we have to change ’van - currently a 2007 B654 @3900kgs - we might as well downsize to a campervan. A visit to the NEC show on Friday left us very impress by two or three. The Hymer Grand Canyon was in that group.

Does anyone on here have any real life experience of them?

Please don’t suggest I have my present van down rated. With a 125 equivalent scooter on a rear rack, and fully loaded, I am nearly up to that.

Grand Canyon or Grand Canyon S? The GC is a Fiat Ducato base and the GCS is a Mercedes Sprinter Base.

I've done 12,000 miles and about 70 odd nights in my GCS since Feb this year and feel I know it inside out. If it's the GCS fire away with your questions!

 

[Peppadog]

Can I ask which rear rack you currently have for the scooter and it’s carrying capacity?

Currently researching options for a 125 or similar.

Its a Watling rack. I already had a rear safety bar with tow ball fitted by PWS in Poole. The rack bolts direct to that. I’m pretty sure its stated capacity is 130kg. Watling wanted some vehicle details, overhang distance from rear wheels etc. before supplying. We have a Silence (Spanish made) scooter with removable battery. The scooter is 105 kg. The battery, which lives at the front of the garage, is 30-35kg.

 

[Peppadog]

Grand Canyon or Grand Canyon S? The GC is a Fiat Ducato base and the GCS is a Mercedes Sprinter Base.

I've done 12,000 miles and about 70 odd nights in my GCS since Feb this year and feel I know it inside out. If it's the GCS fire away with your questions!

Thanks.
Regardless of base vehicle, have the Hymer conversion parts proved good? And are you happy with the conversion as supplied?

 

[Abgs]

Thanks.
Regardless of base vehicle, have the Hymer conversion parts proved good? And are you happy with the conversion as supplied?

It's compact but well thought out, also have the pop top which makes it a very practical vehicle for my needs.

The furniture is all lightweight construction but has been robust so far. The cupboard door hinges are plastic and completely rubbish. You need to keep a few spares with you as they need replacing on a regular basis.

The insulation is terrible but I was aware of this before I bought it, I'm slowly taking sections of the van apart and retro fitting decent insulation.

Heating and hot water systems very good - I have the diesel/electric Trauma boiler.

Kitchen tap is rubbish and fell apart after three months but I replaced it myself as it would have cost me more in time and fuel to take it back even though it's still under warranty. Same with the fresh water pump. Cost about a £100 to upgrade both items.

Rear transverse beds is really comfy thou a tad small. Bed in the pop-top is now very good with the addition of a memory foam topper mattress. I like having the option of both. Pop-top down and its very stealthy to park up somewhere. Pop-top up and makes it a pretty decent living space.

Windows in the habitation area are a bit dark tint wise and without a skylight can be a bit gloomy on a dull day. Without a pop-top you get a couple of skylights.

All the blinds rattled, including the Remis cab blinds and fly screen onto sliding door. I've taken them all apart and added various bits of foam and rubber to make them quiet.

Bathroom is a bit of a compromise as it's pretty small but fully useable.

Kitchen is basic - two ring hob and no oven. I have a external gas point for the BBQ grill so that works for me.

Fridge is 12v only so ideally you need two habitation batteries or one decent sized. I have 200 ah in battery power plus two 100w solar panels. With diesel heating and hot water most often time I can be off grid. Have plans to add more solar and battery power to get it fully independent.

I've installed a 19" TV, a decent sound system and small inverter for mains power to charge my eBike and laptop.

Decent amount of storage under the bed - will take my huge eMountain Bike with both wheels and the bars off in a bike bag. Also have bike rack on the rear doors for carry my cheapo going to pub or shop bike.

It works for me as I'm more of the 'just take what you really need' with you approach. I don't think I'm a motor-homer as such, more of a camper-van with all mods cons, guy.

I'd buy another as I really like the way it drives and its compact size. Next time I'd go for the all singing, all dancing 4WD version though just because that's a proper boy's toy!

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[Dutch 68]

Yes, we had wondered how often we would need the back doors while the scooter is on the rack. Overnighting is one likelyhood.

We do have a side load trailer. Bought before the rack, and to to carry my Triumph Bonneville. We always use the scooter though. Its fuss free, electric and stores stuff like jackets and helmets for us both. Compared to the rack, the trailer is a pain….

What about getting a short and narrow A-class like Lenny HB , much more practical to have a nice big garage for your scooter, and a huge payload on the heavy chassis?

 

[Dutch 68]

Minxy. We wanted to look at, what it seems, you have. The Compact i138 Carthago. They didn’t have one! When I asked, I was told no point, as they won’t have any to sell until 2025!!!!

Order a LH one through the same dealer as lenny? Next year delivery?

 

[Peppadog]

It's compact but well thought out, also have the pop top which makes it a very practical vehicle for my needs.

The furniture is all lightweight construction but has been robust so far. The cupboard door hinges are plastic and completely rubbish. You need to keep a few spares with you as they need replacing on a regular basis.

The insulation is terrible but I was aware of this before I bought it, I'm slowly taking sections of the van apart and retro fitting decent insulation.

Heating and hot water systems very good - I have the diesel/electric Trauma boiler.

Kitchen tap is rubbish and fell apart after three months but I replaced it myself as it would have cost me more in time and fuel to take it back even though it's still under warranty. Same with the fresh water pump. Cost about a £100 to upgrade both items.

Rear transverse beds is really comfy thou a tad small. Bed in the pop-top is now very good with the addition of a memory foam topper mattress. I like having the option of both. Pop-top down and its very stealthy to park up somewhere. Pop-top up and makes it a pretty decent living space.

Windows in the habitation area are a bit dark tint wise and without a skylight can be a bit gloomy on a dull day. Without a pop-top you get a couple of skylights.

All the blinds rattled, including the Remis cab blinds and fly screen onto sliding door. I've taken them all apart and added various bits of foam and rubber to make them quiet.

Bathroom is a bit of a compromise as it's pretty small but fully useable.

Kitchen is basic - two ring hob and no oven. I have a external gas point for the BBQ grill so that works for me.

Fridge is 12v only so ideally you need two habitation batteries or one decent sized. I have 200 ah in battery power plus two 100w solar panels. With diesel heating and hot water most often time I can be off grid. Have plans to add more solar and battery power to get it fully independent.

I've installed a 19" TV, a decent sound system and small inverter for mains power to charge my eBike and laptop.

Decent amount of storage under the bed - will take my huge eMountain Bike with both wheels and the bars off in a bike bag. Also have bike rack on the rear doors for carry my cheapo going to pub or shop bike.

It works for me as I'm more of the 'just take what you really need' with you approach. I don't think I'm a motor-homer as such, more of a camper-van with all mods cons, guy.

I'd buy another as I really like the way it drives and its compact size. Next time I'd go for the all singing, all dancing 4WD version though just because that's a proper boy's toy!

Thanks. Very good info