Domestic solar system (1 Viewer)

Jan 27, 2018
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What would be the recommended solution for a new installation.
Battery hybrid invertor , will need outage cover.
Is brand of panel important any to avoid.
Bydlv or pylontech.
What bulshit are we likely to be feed?
I need to know right questions to ask.
Sorry for a very open ended question.
 

MisterB

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Feb 25, 2018
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Take a look at the Will Prowse YouTube videos - they are very informative. I already have solar and am considering building my own battery bank to complement it.

There are lots of YouTube offerings on how to do it and the cost savings makes it something worth considering in my opinion.
Basically it's linking 16 battery cells together with nuts and bolts, adding a BMS with wires to each cell and then connecting to an inverter/charger (I know there are other things that need to be done, but that's the basic outline)
If I go down that path, I will if course get a qualified electrician to complete the 240v side of the installation

I know that some on here have built there own lifepo4 leisure batteries, who no doubt will be getting asked a lot of questions should I go ahead with it.
 
Dec 2, 2019
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If you going to have storage battery, then hybrid inverter is recommended. There are two flavours: low voltage LV and high voltage HV, same as the battery packs, LV 48v and HV 360-400v.
High voltage hybrid inverters I would consider is store edge from solar edge, Fronius gen 24 and maybe sma.
Low voltage hybrid can be done with a. Second inverter like Victron, coupled to existing, or, there’s few 48v hybrid. Sma has sunny bow coupled with sunny island on 48v.
Batteries you mentioned, the pylon’s had few complains in the past, some folk had issues with some modules and no help from manufacturer.
BYD it’s a strong premium brand, haven’t heard any fails so far, they come in HV and LV packs..
Panels, I have a preference for top 5 brands of the tier 1.
 

Jonno1103

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Aug 27, 2017
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Are we talking at home, if so what's the issue?

Don't believe everything you read or are told.

We only imported 4% of our gas from Russia anyway and we've not imported any at all since February 2022. Oil yes, but even that is a paltry 9%, £2 million worth. Not exactly life changing.

The fossil fuel we import the most of from Russia is coal, about 22% of what we consume but as we no longer have any coal fired power stations it doesn't really effect what we do when we turn on a light switch.

Gas is expensive due to the EU's reliance on it from Russia, other providers know they're desperate for it so charge them a huge premium, this in turn reflects on the global market. If we were to decouple our other fossil fuel & alternative energy from gas our monthly bills would more than half... unfortunately the private suppliers will never want this to happen.

The fake news which circulates is akin to psychological terrorism and unfortunately our printed & electronic media can be some of the worst offenders.

Bad news sells papers and generates click bait income.

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Dec 2, 2019
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It really depends on your budget tbh.
A typical modern 4kW install without batteries will be about £10k with a measly SEG (Smart Export Guarantee) return so a long payback period and no contribution at night, although a solar diverter can heat water during the day to pre-heat overnight water and heating a bit.
The same system with battery storage will be about £15k with no SEG but some energy available 24hrs/day for most months of the year.
I've just installed an all 2nd hand 4kW setup with a solar diverter for about £1.5k which has reduced my usage to about 2.5kWhrs/day.

The system will need an MCS certificate if you want to get the SEG which in reality restricts the number of installers so they all seem to be currently booked up until next year.
Any modern panel, inverter and battery will have pros and cons so it just depends on service life expectations and aesthetics so quite subjective. Inverters that incorporate outage cover start adding to the price but are avaialble, although most require a grid connection to regulate the phasing of the ac side of the system.
 

MisterB

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Feb 25, 2018
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enough to know i shouldnt touch things i know nothing about ....
i am looking at low voltage - 48v (51.2v) system using 16 EVE grade A cells (3.2v x 280AH) and need an AC to AC inverter as our PV system has its own inverter.

i am looking at the Victron Multiplus having viewed a fellow funsters setup last week and liked to monitoring functionality it had

of course though i am open to considering other 'recommended' inverters

i did have look around the storage and solar exhibition and quite liked the LXP ACS from Infinity Innovations - i was told their new app will allow local weather information to 'inform' the system as to its needs - ie if its very sunny then it wont need to 'top up' as much from overnight charge - (which confused me as i thought once they reach full charge it would switch off anyway ... so maybe i misunderstood)

A bonus though would be that they are partnered with Octopus Energy, so i assume they have a good pedigree?

lots more research and digging to do though before i jump one way of the other, ie build my own or buy one off the shelf!
 

MillieMoocher

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I’m sat here waiting for my installation date to come through, having started the process in late July.

the whole thing is a minefield and I’m not sure I really understand it all but think my scheme will suit my needs.

however - and this is the rear point of my reply - is that on Facebook there is a really good group wi the catchy title “Solar & Battery UK (including any other renewable energy source/storage )” where I managed to learn a lot!

a quick heads up is that there seems to be a long wait due to shortages of components and high demand leading to installation delays and quick-buck cowboys entering the market.

for example I started the process in late July and so far have paid a deposit so that the installer can get the G99 authorisation from my DNO. Once they get that, we are looking at installation date 4 months away. G99 went in around 20 August and the installers haven’t heard back yet, we are still within the DNOs statutory response times!
 

PeterCarole29

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Jul 23, 2013
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What would be the recommended solution for a new installation.
Battery hybrid invertor , will need outage cover.
Is brand of panel important any to avoid.
Bydlv or pylontech.
What bulshit are we likely to be feed?
I need to know right questions to ask.
Sorry for a very open ended question.
I had a local company round on Monday . He was suggesting a split system here and using solar edge panels.
I am very interested in having a battery system though he didnt have much experience in them .
I will follow this thread and absorbe all the info.
I will let you know what our quote is and the spec.
I thought the way to start is to see whats practicle , to see how many panels can fit on the roof.
 
Sep 24, 2013
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An interesting and timely topic. Our neighbour is looking to install solar and a battery and we may consider the same. Our houses have a ridgeline that runs north/south so the roofs face east and west. Has anyone got this installation with all panels on one side (they have trees shading the west facing roof)? I had always thought that solar only worked on a south facing roof.

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MisterB

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Feb 25, 2018
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An interesting and timely topic. Our neighbour is looking to install solar and a battery and we may consider the same. Our houses have a ridgeline that runs north/south so the roofs face east and west. Has anyone got this installation with all panels on one side (they have trees shading the west facing roof)? I had always thought that solar only worked on a south facing roof.
Solar works best if they are south facing BUT they still work if they're not. An important point is they don't have to be on your roof - if your garden is big enough and you have space for a South facing (some installations can rotate to follow the sun) then it's worth considering - especially if it then becomes a 'car port' for your motorhome ...

PeterCarole29

Panels vary so much in dimensions and output that you might end up with different solutions. If you can roughly work out the available area then work from that and try to get as much on as you can in terms of output as opposed to size.
 
Dec 2, 2019
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i am looking at low voltage - 48v (51.2v) system using 16 EVE grade A cells (3.2v x 280AH) and need an AC to AC inverter as our PV system has its own inverter.

i am looking at the Victron Multiplus having viewed a fellow funsters setup last week and liked to monitoring functionality it had

of course though i am open to considering other 'recommended' inverters

i did have look around the storage and solar exhibition and quite liked the LXP ACS from Infinity Innovations - i was told their new app will allow local weather information to 'inform' the system as to its needs - ie if its very sunny then it wont need to 'top up' as much from overnight charge - (which confused me as i thought once they reach full charge it would switch off anyway ... so maybe i misunderstood)

A bonus though would be that they are partnered with Octopus Energy, so i assume they have a good pedigree?

lots more research and digging to do though before i jump one way of the other, ie build my own or buy one off the shelf!
I would go with Fronius primo and victron multiplus . A match made in heaven. That way you can add the eve pack to the victron, install ESS and have full control over export. No other combination is capable 0 export. But the Fronius with the Fronius smart meter and multiplus it’s capable 0w to the grid. You could have this without mcs if you interested in self consuption and not bothered with the export.
 

MisterB

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Feb 25, 2018
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Raul

Thanks, though I thought if I had the multiplus I don't need a fronius as they both perform the same functions? I want to build my own battery bank though!

To add longevity to my system and to future proof it (as much as you can when tech is evolving) I wanted an AC to AC inverter which will divert excess power after the generation meter to the batteries so as not to impact the FiT payments and then feed back to me when solar doesn't cover my consumption.
I would also like the ability to add extra solar to the inverter which won't go through the generation meter so as not to affect the MCS installation, but that will also either top up the batteries or also contribute to my consumption.

It's good for me to be able to put things down in writing as it helps me focus, so thanks for the response
 
Dec 2, 2019
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Raul

Thanks, though I thought if I had the multiplus I don't need a fronius as they both perform the same functions? I want to build my own battery bank though!

To add longevity to my system and to future proof it (as much as you can when tech is evolving) I wanted an AC to AC inverter which will divert excess power after the generation meter to the batteries so as not to impact the FiT payments and then feed back to me when solar doesn't cover my consumption.
I would also like the ability to add extra solar to the inverter which won't go through the generation meter so as not to affect the MCS installation, but that will also either top up the batteries or also contribute to my consumption.

It's good for me to be able to put things down in writing as it helps me focus, so thanks for the response
Do you have a existing system? Then yes you only need the multiplus for storage. The multiplus is also AC to AC pass trough. If you already have FIT just export after your battery is full. It can be configured in ESS as you wish, many options.

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Dec 2, 2019
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£4995 FIT installation from Mole valley farmers,Devon, when I was there in august.
That sounds like a good deal 👍 although their web sites says an average of £7.5k + scaffolding, also not sure if that includes structural engineers work.
 

MisterB

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Feb 25, 2018
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£4995 FIT installation from Mole valley farmers,Devon, when I was there in august.


i didnt realise FIT payments were still being allowed/processed? i thought the scheme had ended?
 
Jul 7, 2021
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i didnt realise FIT payments were still being allowed/processed? i thought the scheme had ended?
FIT has finished but it has become SEG (smart export guarantee) which pays a measly 4.1p per exported kWh. It's much better to use your excess generation in-house.

We have added EDDI hot water diverter and ZAPPI EV car charger diverter so we hope not to have any exported energy.
 

MisterB

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FIT has finished but it has become SEG (smart export guarantee) which pays a measly 4.1p per exported kWh. It's much better to use your excess generation in-house.

We have added EDDI hot water diverter and ZAPPI EV car charger diverter so we hope not to have any exported energy.
is the 4.1 for the amount exported or deemed to be exported (50% of the total energy produced), or is it 100% of the energy produced??

we only get deemed export of 20 odd pence on 50% of the electricity generated, so yours, if it reflects the amount produced, might work out to be 8p in real terms?

i wonder if you can have both Fit and SEG payments on separate systems???? i intended adding a second solar bank and this might be a way of topping up my 'returns' ....

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Jul 7, 2021
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is the 4.1 for the amount exported or deemed to be exported (50% of the total energy produced), or is it 100% of the energy produced??

we only get deemed export of 20 odd pence on 50% of the electricity generated, so yours, if it reflects the amount produced, might work out to be 8p in real terms?

i wonder if you can have both Fit and SEG payments on separate systems???? i intended adding a second solar bank and this might be a way of topping up my 'returns' ....
I don't really understand what the 50% represents. Any Solar energy is first used to power any consumption in the house. Any surplus is then used to charge the batteries. When the batteries are fully charged the system will export it to the grid for which we get paid 4.1p per kWh. However we have an energy diverter which will switch on the hot water immersion heater if it detects any export to the grid (or try to charge the car if connected).

That way we try to keep export as low as possible. This week so far we have exported 8kWh which means we will get 32p SEG payment.

We have Octopus Go Faster tariff which gives extremely cheap power between 03.30 and 06.30 (4.5p per kWh) so we use that to charge the batteries, charge the car and heat water during the night.

Since this system was installed our monthly electricity payment has dropped to £18 and this includes standing charge and car charging.

If you can afford the up front capital outlay its a no-brainer - for us anyway.

Our system was installed by GENational who we were very pleased with. https://genational.co.uk/
 

MisterB

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The 50% relates to FiT payments. If you're on the FiT scheme they only pay you for 50% of whatever you produce whether all or any of it go back to the grid. The optimum is if course to produce lots of energy, send none back to the grid but get paid for 59% of whatever is produced (irrespective of where it goes!)

I've been a bit lax in all honesty in not trying to usee all the energy we produce, hence my push for a home battery system to optimise my production.

I've just asked for a quote for the cells to make a 13kw system so I can make some progress one way or the other based on cost and skill level required!
 
Jul 7, 2021
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The 50% relates to FiT payments. If you're on the FiT scheme they only pay you for 50% of whatever you produce whether all or any of it go back to the grid. The optimum is if course to produce lots of energy, send none back to the grid but get paid for 59% of whatever is produced (irrespective of where it goes!)

I've been a bit lax in all honesty in not trying to usee all the energy we produce, hence my push for a home battery system to optimise my production.

I've just asked for a quote for the cells to make a 13kw system so I can make some progress one way or the other based on cost and skill level required!
Thanks for the explanation. As we only installed Solar this year we don't qualify for FIT so I didn't know how it worked. FIT does sound like it was a good option when it was available but my understanding is that the kit cost a lot more then.
 

mikebeaches

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FIT has finished but it has become SEG (smart export guarantee) which pays a measly 4.1p per exported kWh. It's much better to use your excess generation in-house.

We have added EDDI hot water diverter and ZAPPI EV car charger diverter so we hope not to have any exported energy.
If you are in a position to transfer to Octopus Energy, about a month ago they doubled the flat SEG payment from 7.5p to 15p per kWh.

From our perspective, it makes a very useful contribution. (y)
 
Jul 29, 2007
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Suffolk Country Council were running a scheme called Solar Together, you join and then at a set date installers are supposed to bid for the opportunity to quote and you get it 27% cheaper. Just had mine its from Greenscape £9818 thats for 16 panels. If I accept this quote I then have to pay Greenscape £150 to come around and do a proper quote which could be totally different. I shan't be bothering.

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Dec 2, 2019
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That sounds like a good deal 👍 although their web sites says an average of £7.5k + scaffolding, also not sure if that includes structural engineers work.
At current prices, you should pay £1500-1600 per kwp installed, + scaffolding. Anything more can be for supper dupper gear you choose and could be very difficult in terms of logistics. If it’s a straight forward house, good access for Scafold and mid range equipment you should not exceed prices I mentioned.
 

mikebeaches

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Suffolk Country Council were running a scheme called Solar Together, you join and then at a set date installers are supposed to bid for the opportunity to quote and you get it 27% cheaper. Just had mine its from Greenscape £9818 thats for 16 panels. If I accept this quote I then have to pay Greenscape £150 to come around and do a proper quote which could be totally different. I shan't be bothering.
In fact, that is exactly how we got our solar and battery storage installed in February this year.

In our case, it was a partnership between North Somerset (Bristol and South Gloucestershire) Councils and Solar Together.

It worked in the way you described, although the winning bidder in our area was a different installer - Infinity Renewables. And everything has worked out pretty well and we reckon we got a good deal.

Interestingly, when the surveyor/salesman came round, he suggested we should have a smaller system, but it wasn't what we wanted - so we had the largest array our roof could accommodate. Likewise with battery storage. Oh and in our case, the final quote was very much in line with the initial indicative one.
 
Dec 2, 2019
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At current prices, you should pay £1500-1600 per kwp installed, + scaffolding. Anything more can be for supper dupper gear you choose and could be very difficult in terms of logistics. If it’s a straight forward house, good access for Scafold and mid range equipment you should not exceed prices I mentioned.
That makes me feel very smug with my DIY £400/kW fully installed including scaffold (well cherry picker but close enough) 😂
 

MisterB

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That makes me feel very smug with my DIY £400/kW fully installed including scaffold (well cherry picker but close enough) 😂
Is that just solar panels?


My battery project is coming in close to that ON PAPER!!!!
 
Dec 2, 2019
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Is that just solar panels?


My battery project is coming in close to that ON PAPER!!!!
No it's all 2nd hand. Panels were from a solar farm that blew down in storm Arwen so not many hours use. Inverters (2 No 2kW) were off a well known auction site (2 years use recorded). Panels fitted to an outbuilding roof and inverters wired by yours truly. Connected to consumer unit and installation checked over by a family member electrician and then OKd by DNO during smart meter install. Picked up a broken solar diverter of Facebook marketplace that needed a 6p micro-switch soldered onto the PCB to get it working.
All done in a bit of a rush to get something in place before summer kicked in.

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