Do I upgrade to a heavier chassis? (1 Viewer)

[Jonny193]

Hi all,

Looking to get some opinions on whether to upgrade to a heavier (4,100kg) Ford chassis on my Etrusco which is currently being built. We will be full-time travelling around Europe next year and our dealer has asked whether we want to go for this option to allow flexibility with our weight. The basic model will be 3 tonnes before we do anything with it, leaving 500kg for us and our things before we hit the fully laden threshold (due to age I'd need to get my C1 license to drive anything heavier). Would love to get people's experience with this, is 500kg enough for 2 people (and a dog!) to work with or are we likely to go over? If we're likely to go over do we go for the heavier chassis? Does that effect insurance? Do I get my C1 license but stick with the base chassis?

We aren't planning on taking heaps with us, it'll mainly be our clothes, a couple of bikes, kitchen stuff, etc... any advice would be appreciated! I've got all these thoughts going through my head on this and I don't want to make the wrong decision!

Cheers,
Jonny

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

C1, option. Anything else will prove tedious trying to account for every extra KG added.
Mike.

 

[DandJ]

We're new to this malarkey and have a Chausson that has a weight of 2720kg (fueled but nothing else). We are adding bits and pieces for our first proper time away next week (been on a few 2 nighters), all these 1, 2, 5 kg things add up.
I'd say you may well struggle to stay 'legal' when you consider adding you two, plus the dog...then 100litres of water, some in the grey tank, gas, bikes, clothes, food, drink etc etc

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[Jonny193]

C1, option. Anything else will prove tedious trying to account for every extra KG added.
Mike.

Thanks Mike, would you stick with the lighter base chassis up upgrade to the 4.1T one?

 

[Jonny193]

We're new to this malarkey and have a Chausson that has a weight of 2720kg (fueled but nothing else). We are adding bits and pieces for our first proper time away next week (been on a few 2 nighters), all these 1, 2, 5 kg things add up.
I'd say you may well struggle to stay 'legal' when you consider adding you two, plus the dog...then 100litres of water, some in the grey tank, gas, bikes, clothes, food, drink etc etc

Hope you're enjoying it all though! Yes I don't want to be having to keep track of every kg, I was pretty certain I'd be getting my C1 but whether or not to go for the heavier chassis is something I just don't know which way to go! I don't suspect we'd go hugely over 3,500kg so I don't know if the heavier chassis is even needed...

 

[TerryL]

500 kg OUGHT to be enough but years of experience tells me otherwise.
Assuming you can get/have got a C1 go for the heavier chassis without a doubt. Retaining C1 isn't much of a hassle, far less than trying to stay within 3.5t.

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[DandJ]

Yes, we are. We will leave on Sunday morning, full of fuel and water, two bikes (1 an ebike) and all we need for 4-6 weeks. I intend calling via the public weighbridge so see just what us and all the bits add up to, I'm happy to post the details)
Is the 3000kg the actual weight of the finished van with all options plus 90% of diesel and a 75kg driver or basic van bare?

 

[PaulW2]

Hi all,

Looking to get some opinions on whether to upgrade to a heavier (4,100kg) Ford chassis on my Etrusco which is currently being built. We will be full-time travelling around Europe next year and our dealer has asked whether we want to go for this option to allow flexibility with our weight. The basic model will be 3 tonnes before we do anything with it, leaving 500kg for us and our things before we hit the fully laden threshold (due to age I'd need to get my C1 license to drive anything heavier). Would love to get people's experience with this, is 500kg enough for 2 people (and a dog!) to work with or are we likely to go over? If we're likely to go over do we go for the heavier chassis? Does that effect insurance? Do I get my C1 license but stick with the base chassis?

We aren't planning on taking heaps with us, it'll mainly be our clothes, a couple of bikes, kitchen stuff, etc... any advice would be appreciated! I've got all these thoughts going through my head on this and I don't want to make the wrong decision!

Cheers,
Jonny

If you don't already have a C1 licence and have to obtain one, then be aware that you will need to do a medical renewal every 5 years until 65 and then every year after that.

(In fact I think it's every 5 years after 50, then every year after 65.)

 

[Mikeco]

I don’t believe that 500 kg is enough especially if full timing, the other option is to tow a trailer.

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[DJIT]

You may also want to bear in mind that this might affect resale, if there are fewer people with a C1 license.
I understand that a paper up-plating exercise can provide sufficient additional weight capacity and it's easy to downgrade again when it comes to resale. Not sure how a heavier chassis will fare in this regards.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Thanks Mike, would you stick with the lighter base chassis up upgrade to the 4.1T one?

We've gone that route, because we carry a small Honda Wave scooter, cycles, and kayaks, + tools and spares. Most of my stuff is sort of unique to us. The other positive is £165 tax for 3500kg +.
Mike.

 

[Wh05apk]

Your 500kg payload also assumed the ex factory weight is correct as well, it could be +5%, which would dramatically reduce your payload.

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[Lenny HB]

500kg may sound a lot but it's nowhere near enough, every manufacturer option and every extra reduces the payload by the weight of the items and if the van is on top tolerance which they often are, so with extras you will probably be down to 250kg payload.

 

[Vic]

Get the C1 and the heavier chassis. Fill timing you will need it. If you don't you will eventually regret it.

 

[PaulW2]

Other than the licence issues (where how old you are may be very significant), it's worth thinking about the entire set of trade-offs if you want to be properly observant of the laws.

Above 3,500 - angles morts stickers, different speed limits in many places, not allowed on many routes, more difficult toll solutions in specific countries (Switzerland, Austria) or the inability to use toll tag solutions.

Below 3,500 - limited payload.

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[Fdhadi]

Ok, just a thought.

Why not get the 3.5t vehicle and maybe see if you could then uprate to 3.7 or 3.8t afterwards.
I’m sure if you contact a company like SV Tech (as an example) with your model details, they could tell you what weight you could possibly go to without any additional expense.

Most motorhomes can be uprated as part of a paperwork exercise for around £250.

That way, if and when you come to sell it, you then have the option to downplate and possibly make it easier to sell.

Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware but anything above 3.5t is only £165 road tax.

 

[RandallC]

Not sure if you have had any extras in the build.

Sadly the Manufactures show the (am going to say as built mass) without any extras, so when you pick Alde heating, awning, mattress topper, gas low, auto box, higher output engine, solar panel, TV/Sat aerials, all have a payload requirement.

We were looking at a 3500kg Rapido that having been fitted with bits and bobs (both manufactures options and dealer extras) was 50kg under 3500 with nothing in it, other than 1/2 a tank of fuel. if up plated to 3850 would only have 400kg payload. Quick spreadsheet calc of planned contents, shows only 25kG left on the front axle. That's without the wife's handbag.

Not just gross MAM has to be considered but axle loadings as well. Whilst a few will argue they have never been stopped and weighed, we have seen the Gendarmes stopping and weighing vans.

Hope you get sorted.

Firmly believe it should be an offense to sell a vehicle that is unfit for purpose.

 

[gus-lopez]

The basic model will be 3 tonnes before we do anything with it, leaving 500kg for us

As said I very much doubt you will have anywhere near 500 kgs after extras plus full fuel ,full water etc.

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[Jonny193]

Thank you everyone for the replies, it's been incredibly helpful, I didn't even know about the road tax situation for heavier vehicles!

I'm going to have a chat with the dealer to see what the options are with regards to the heavier chassis, whether I can go for something in between 3.5 and 4.1 I don't know but I will find out. I'll go for a heavier chassis regardless and will be getting my C1 too.

Thanks again.

 

[Jonny193]

Other than the licence issues (where how old you are may be very significant), it's worth thinking about the entire set of trade-offs if you want to be properly observant of the laws.

Above 3,500 - angles morts stickers, different speed limits in many places, not allowed on many routes, more difficult toll solutions in specific countries (Switzerland, Austria) or the inability to use toll tag solutions.

Below 3,500 - limited payload.

Thanks Paul, you mentioned not being allowed on many routes and the difficulties with toll booths. If I went for a heavier vehicle am I looking at severely hamstringing myself in where we can go? Can you not use tolls over a certain weight?

 

[Speve]

Thanks Paul, you mentioned not being allowed on many routes and the difficulties with toll booths. If I went for a heavier vehicle am I looking at severely hamstringing myself in where we can go? Can you not use tolls over a certain weight?

No you are not we have always had +3500 kg vans and it’s no problem at all tolls are easy and as long as under 3m high you can get a tag, we have travelled extensively in the EU without hassle 4500kg with twin axle car trailer.

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[Folkranger]

If I were to change my van again I would only get the heavier chassis as on two vaans I have been unable to get down to 3500 even though there seemed plenty. The first hit is the 5% extra weight (tolerance) that most manufacturers dishonestly use up. So now I have C1 licence just to run at the van's maximum 3650. Still tight.

 

[DerryW]

If you don't already have a C1 licence and have to obtain one, then be aware that you will need to do a medical renewal every 5 years until 65 and then every year after that.

(In fact I think it's every 5 years after 50, then every year after 65.)

I thought C1 renewal from age 70 was every 3years.

 

[Dutch 68]

Thanks Paul, you mentioned not being allowed on many routes and the difficulties with toll booths. If I went for a heavier vehicle am I looking at severely hamstringing myself in where we can go? Can you not use tolls over a certain weight?

Not a problem at all, you may need to pay more, but even better, avoid toll roads, you are on holiday, you may as well enjoy proper scenery

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[PaulW2]

Thanks Paul, you mentioned not being allowed on many routes and the difficulties with toll booths. If I went for a heavier vehicle am I looking at severely hamstringing myself in where we can go? Can you not use tolls over a certain weight?

You would access restrict yourself in places where 3.5 restrictions are widespread. Off arterial roads, through towns and so on. Then if you travel in France you have to wear those heavyweight badges of shame that announce that you're above 3.5. Which would limit your ability to blithely sail through weight-restricted areas and protest innocence.

Have a look also at the speed limits in different countries across Europe, for 3.5 t and heavier vehicles.

As far as tolls are concerned, both Switzerland and Austria have different solutions for above and below 3.5 tons. I think the electronic badge-type things for France (which can include Italy, Spain and Portugal) are only for 3.5 t vehicles.

This is where one gets to 'balance of compliance' type considerations.

Some, perhaps most of us, would take careful note and comply with every little rule. So they are limited if they're above 3.5 t.

Some would upgrade their weight and then bend other requirements - for instance not using angles morts stickers, breaking their weight-based speed limits, going through 3.5 ton zones and so on. So they prefer to break those laws.

Others - and a high percentage of European motorhomers - blithely carry on with a 3.5 ton van even though they may be overweight. Many vans are built so as to be virtually impossible to use within their weight limit. Europe is full of them. When caught, which is, I think fairly rare, there are sometimes tolerances applied (say 5% in the UK) or fairly modest fines for modest overloading. I suspect that many carry on as they would with their cars - without much of a thought about payload. They just use it. If you build it they will come...

One hears a lot about insurance being invalidated if you're overloaded, but that seems to rely on an unfortunate and perhaps improbable set of events. First, having an incident, then having doubt cast at the scene over whether you were overweight and whether that was contributory to the incident, then being weighed in the immediate aftermath. Maybe I haven't paid proper attention but I haven't yet heard of a case where this was actually done. So it seems a bit hypothetical to me.

Finally, where a van is capable of a paper exercise upgrade it is exactly the same vehicle in all safety respects. No difference to the actual, physical vehicle, just to its regulatory standing. I've upgraded like that before, from 5.2 to 5.5 t. In that case I was already on the one side of the 3.5 divide and was simply managing the modest risk of someone doubting my 5.2 t status.

But a 3.5t van that is upgraded on paper to say 3.7 or 3.8 is now just as safe as before, but from a regulatory point of view now more payload compliant but has to run the gauntlet with all the other stuff.

I now drive a 3.5 t van. I have enough payload, but wild horses couldn't get me to upgrade it for the reasons above. If it came to it I would sell it first. (If I'm going to be over 3.5 then let's not bugger around with little pissant margins - give me a proper RV!)

But of course that's a matter of personal choice.

 

[PaulW2]

I thought C1 renewal from age 70 was every 3years.

Not if you acquire your C1 entitlement after the 1997 grandfathering cutoff. Different rules.

Every 5 years after 50, then every year from 65.

 

[Fdhadi]

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[Lenny HB]

Thank you everyone for the replies, it's been incredibly helpful, I didn't even know about the road tax situation for heavier vehicles!

I'm going to have a chat with the dealer to see what the options are with regards to the heavier chassis, whether I can go for something in between 3.5 and 4.1 I don't know but I will find out. I'll go for a heavier chassis regardless and will be getting my C1 too.

Thanks again.

If you going to get your C1 best to get the van on the heaviest chassis possible, nothing worse than not enough payload.

Our current van is 4500 kg, no problems going anywhere, don't believe the doom & goom sayers.

 

[Orion]

Our Adria Compact on the light chassis, which is usually supplied as a 3500kg van, had the ‘free’ upgrade back to the 3650kg original plated Fiat weight.

With just the two of us and kitted out for an eight week Greek and Crete bimble I put it on the local weighbridge before leaving. It came in at 3780kg!
I wouldn’t say we had a massive amount of extra equipment with us - 2 cycles, BBQ, etc. - although the van was originally reasonably well specified with AC, awning, spare wheel, extra battery.

After adding rear air and consulting VWE it is now at a more comfortable 4250kg (1960kgF & 2400kgR). As it is outwardly identical to the 3500kg models we have no trouble with a toll tag or any other possible restrictions previously mentioned.

 

[Smokaijo]

If you don't already have a C1 licence and have to obtain one, then be aware that you will need to do a medical renewal every 5 years until 65 and then every year after that.

(In fact I think it's every 5 years after 50, then every year after 65.)

Does that include licences that already have a C1 on it “grandad rights” ?? As our MH is a C1 which my partner drives on his licence with no trouble ?

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