Do I need inverter and 2cnd leisure battery to charge ebikes. Norfolk fitter needed!

[violet]

We have just ordered ebikes. Our first choices were all out of stock but we are content with what we are getting.
I'm now sorting insurance, a method for carrying them on our T5 (vertical rear door) and, importantly, charging them.
We currently have one leisure battery and no inverter. We have not, until now, needed more. However we seldom use campsites so charging the bike batteries in the van would be great if it's possible. I know little of the mechanics of leisure batteries and inverters.
Would our van need another leisure battery? How big an inverter to charge a 630WHh battery?
Could we charge from the engine as we were driving?
Is there a type of power bank that we could use, bearing in mind the size of our T5?
Does anyone know a fitter or company in Norfolk?
Thanks in advance.

 

[LesW]

You don't necessarily need an inverter there are 12v chargers available (depending on batteries).. you do need to make sure any rack you use will take the weight of two ebikes... consider also bikes that have easily removable batteries.

We carry two ebikes, but being self converted they are a bit lighter than 'normal' ebikes, plus the 36v 17ah batteries are easily removed for charging, (and lifting).

 

[Rollingwheels]

We have 2 ebikes and temporarily have used a 500w pure sine wave inverter from Amazon and you can charge one bike at a time if you are driving but it has to be hard wired onto the battery, I used 6mm2 good quality automotive cable and it was all good for 3 weeks in Spain, it was a Bestek 500w my brother has one for the same purpose and all good for him as well.

 

[tonka]

As Les says, there are 12v chargers... Not something i know much about but aware they exist..
Using while driving makes sense as it would make use of the alternator, however remember to allow your leisure battery to charge first.

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[violet]

You don't necessarily need an inverter there are 12v chargers available (depending on batteries).. you do need to make sure any rack you use will take the weight of two ebikes... consider also bikes that have easily removable batteries.

We carry two ebikes, but being self converted they are a bit lighter than 'normal' ebikes, plus the 36v 17ah batteries are easily removed for charging, (and lifting).

We are thinking if a swing away rack that will take 2 ebikes. We looked at the Atera Strads DL3 but it will only take 45 kg. The Genio Pro will take the weight but the tilt is extreme and I'm still not sure we could easily get in and out the rear door. The batteries are easily removable, as is the seat stem and the front wheel.

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[violet]

We have 2 ebikes and temporarily have used a 500w pure sine wave inverter from Amazon and you can charge one bike at a time if you are driving but it has to be hard wired onto the battery, I used 6mm2 good quality automotive cable and it was all good for 3 weeks in Spain, it was a Bestek 500w my brother has one for the same purpose and all good for him as well.

Will the Bestek 500w inverter charge a 630wh battery? Did you hardwire it onto the main battery? I wouldn't have a clue how to do that and would have to find a fitter if I can. But it does sound a good solution.

 

[Andacami]

Thread 'charge a e bike battery moterhome how' https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/charge-a-e-bike-battery-moterhome-how.258159/

 

[Riverbankannie]

We are thinking if a swing away rack that will take 2 ebikes. We looked at the Atera Strads DL3 but it will only take 45 kg. The Genio Pro will take the weight but the tilt is extreme and I'm still not sure we could easily get in and out the rear door. The batteries are easily removable, as is the seat stem and the front wheel.

You say get in and get out of rear door - do you mean physically get in and out or just get access to? A tiltable rack would allow you to reach in from one side but it still might be difficult to reach up to close the rear door. We had a bike rack on the rear of our T4 with 2 standard lightweight non electric road bikes and it is a heavy load. Our toilet cassette access was within the rear door so always a pain to remove the bikes. I would suggest going for a swing out rack. In the long run save a lot of hassle.

 

[jumar]

Carrying two eBikes needs a great deal of thought, off grid brings on new challenges, once these are overcome, THE FUN BEGINS....reading this should help you on your travels. Andacami has posted the same post.....
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/charge-a-e-bike-battery-moterhome-how.258159/

We have had great success after many hours of trials.....however we live in Spain which gives us a headstart.....Good luck, happy travels..

 

[Rollingwheels]

Will the Bestek 500w inverter charge a 630wh battery? Did you hardwire it onto the main battery? I wouldn't have a clue how to do that and would have to find a fitter if I can. But it does sound a good solution.

Hi I think it should be ok because the 630wh is the capacity of the stored electricity in the battery so they will just take longer to charge than say a 450wh it is more to do with the input requirements from the inverter and it seems that they all charge at a similar rate, I am sure many others here could explain it far better than me

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[Rollingwheels]

Will the Bestek 500w inverter charge a 630wh battery? Did you hardwire it onto the main battery? I wouldn't have a clue how to do that and would have to find a fitter if I can. But it does sound a good solution.

Sorry just re read the question yes to wiring to the Hab batter, the wiring is very simple just a red live from the battery to the inverter and then black neutral I crimped ring terminals onto the ends, no need for a fuse as they have inbuilt fuses but if you wanted to make extra sure a fuse close to the battery on live will make extra sure, very simple

 

[Lenny HB]

I use a 1000 Pure Sine wave inverter to charge our e-bikes they have 400 watt batteries with the 1000 w inverter I can charge both at once but I restrict it to one and try not to charge them from flat as it takes too much out of the batteries, I have 3 x 80ah Gel batteries and 300 watts of solar.

A 500 watt inverter will be fine for charging one battery at a time, a 300 watt may do it but sometimes smaller inverters trip out on the initial surge when you turn the charger on.
Your biggest problem will be recharging the leisure battery, and if you intend to charge when parked you will need a 2nd battery some solar to recharge the batteries, it will be a problem getting enough solar on the roof.
Each bike battery will take about 3 hours to charge so you would need a fair bit of driving to do it on the move. You could fit a B2B which will charge the batteries quicker when driving.

Another option on batteries is to fit Lithium batteries they can be recharged much quicker and work wery well with a B2B but it will be expensive.

For a Bike carrier Busbiker are highly rated and do a good swing out carrier not cheap around £1500.

Busbiker: Rotating bike carrier for a campervan

 

[violet]

You say get in and get out of rear door - do you mean physically get in and out or just get access to? A tiltable rack would allow you to reach in from one side but it still might be difficult to reach up to close the rear door. We had a bike rack on the rear of our T4 with 2 standard lightweight non electric road bikes and it is a heavy load. Our toilet cassette access was within the rear door so always a pain to remove the bikes. I would suggest going for a swing out rack. In the long run save a lot of hassle.

Thanks fir this, it has made us think again about the towbar mounted racks. I do mean that we physically go in and out the back door, our layout allows that and we use the back door quite a lot and a simple tiltable would not allow this.
Your point that a tiltable rack might make it difficult to reach up to close the door is an excellent one and has made us decide against the Genio Pro. What you say about the heavy load of 2 bikes plus of course the weight of the rack itself has made us decide against the Strada DL3, so that leaves a swing out. The main swing outs are Vanswing, Van E-cross and Van Adventurer but all use the towbar and cannot be easily removed, so we wouldn't have a towbar for our trailer which we use sometimes for going to the tip or moving furniture, etc.
I have found a towbar company which makes their own swingouts and these are easier to remove so we'll probably go there. But we have to change the towbar so that's another £400.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Thanks fir this, it has made us think again about the towbar mounted racks. I do mean that we physically go in and out the back door, our layout allows that and we use the back door quite a lot and a simple tiltable would not allow this.
Your point that a tiltable rack might make it difficult to reach up to close the door is an excellent one and has made us decide against the Genio Pro. What you say about the heavy load of 2 bikes plus of course the weight of the rack itself has made us decide against the Strada DL3, so that leaves a swing out. The main swing outs are Vanswing, Van E-cross and Van Adventurer but all use the towbar and cannot be easily removed, so we wouldn't have a towbar for our trailer which we use sometimes for going to the tip or moving furniture, etc.
I have found a towbar company which makes their own swingouts and these are easier to remove so we'll probably go there. But we have to change the towbar so that's another £400.

Just thinking laterally here, is it possible to have a demountable towbar fitted to the swing out bike rack ? I suppose danger of the swing out doing it’s thing when trailer attached - that wouldn’t be good. However the locking mechanism must be substantial and secure.

 

[Riverbankannie]

For a Bike carrier Busbiker are highly rated and do a good swing out carrier not cheap around £1500.
Busbiker: Rotating bike carrier for a campervan

I don’t think they make them for VW T5 though.

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[violet]

Another option on batteries is to fit Lithium batteries they can be recharged much quicker and work wery well with a B2B but it will be expensive.

For a Bike carrier Busbiker are highly rated and do a good swing out carrier not cheap around £1500.

Busbiker: Rotating bike carrier for a campervan

Yes, I've checked this and as RiverbankAnnie says, they are not suitable for T5s, or any VW.
Good to know the 500 inverter will probably do, I'll look at lithium as well but I really need a professional to do the job. I regret to say how little I know of these systems such as B2B and inverters, etc, but I am attempting to understand. I was listening to an audiobook of 'Day of the Triffids' this morning and came to the bit where a woman survivor is being berated for knowing so little of mechanical and electrical systems. I did hang my head in shame a little at the thought of how little I know of the system our van now needs.
We could get it all done at Vanbitz I think, and we do have their alarm system, but it is a long way to go. If anybody knows of an East Anglian company please let me know.

 

[Nanniemate]

I bought a bike last week went for weight so I could lift it 13.5 with battery. Onto the van As for the insurance i took the advice of a very serious cyclist he suggest get it listed on house insurance and heyho easy peasy no additional all the usual criteria including goldstandard lock on offer from tredz with chain £33.00 I went though the same issues as you but decided wanted a lighter bike over a tow bar .the really frustrating thing is that someone took a towbar off my van

 

[suavecarve]

I would ask where you are going with the Ebikes on your travels.
If going France/Belgium etc, then battery management and using local facilities to charge them while out and about.
If they are Bosch batteries it is even easier

 

[Howard B]

We are thinking if a swing away rack that will take 2 ebikes. We looked at the Atera Strads DL3 but it will only take 45 kg. The Genio Pro will take the weight but the tilt is extreme and I'm still not sure we could easily get in and out the rear door. The batteries are easily removable, as is the seat stem and the front wheel.

How much do your bikes weigh? I carry two leccy bikes on my Altera Strada, think the conbined weight fir the two is 38kg. Batteries are removed when on the rack.

 

[autorouter]

Will the Bestek 500w inverter charge a 630wh battery?

You need to distinguish carefully between watt-hours (energy capacity) and watts (rate of energy supply). For example, a 200W charger will fill a 630Wh battery in 630/200 = 3.15 hours. A 300W inverter would be fine for powering that charger. Since batteries typically take about 3 hours to charge, I would expect the charger to be about that power. And I'd think a 500W inverter would be OK for two of them.

Look on the charger label to find the power. If for example the output is 40V 5A then the output power is 40 x 5 = 200W. the input power will be maybe 10% more than that, say 220W.

If you only want an inverter to charge the ebikes, then best to get the smallest one that will do the job. The bigger they are, the more power they waste. They even waste power when they are not under any load, so best to switch them off unless you are actually using them.

Your leisure battery will have a label with the energy capacity, usually in amp-hours (Ah). Since you know the voltage (12V) you can work out its energy capacity in watt-hours (Wh). For example a 90Ah 12V battery it's 90 x 12 = 1080Wh.

So you can see that you could charge one ebike battery from the leisure battery, but it won't stretch to two of them. The link in jumar's post has some suggestions.

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[violet]

How much do your bikes weigh? I carry two leccy bikes on my Altera Strada, think the conbined weight fir the two is 38kg. Batteries are removed when on the rack.

The two together will weigh over 45kg with batteries removed. The Strada DL3 has a permissible load of 23.5kg per rail but only 45kg combined. So very tight. Problem for us is access in and out of the T5 rear door as we use it quite a lot so we would be having to pull the Atera out and tilt it every day and at that weight it would be very heavy.
I asked the roofbox company which sells Atera racks and they were dubious as to whether it would carry the weight.

 

[violet]

You need to distinguish carefully between watt-hours (energy capacity) and watts (rate of energy supply). For example, a 200W charger will fill a 630Wh battery in 630/200 = 3.15 hours. A 300W inverter would be fine for powering that charger. Since batteries typically take about 3 hours to charge, I would expect the charger to be about that power. And I'd think a 500W inverter would be OK for two of them.

Look on the charger label to find the power. If for example the output is 40V 5A then the output power is 40 x 5 = 200W. the input power will be maybe 10% more than that say 220W.

If you only want an inverter to charge the ebikes,then best to get the smallest one that will do the job. The bigger they are,the more power they waste. They even waste power when they are notunder any load,so best to switch them offunlessyou are actually using them.

Your leisure battery will have a label with the energy capacity, usually in amp-hours (Ah). Since you know the voltage (12V) you can work out its energy capacity in watt-hours (Wh). For example a 90Ah 12V battery it's 90x 12= 1080Wh.

So you can see that you could charge one ebike battery from the leisure battery, but it won't stretch to two of them. The link in jumar's post has some suggestions.

Thank you so much for this. I am going to study it carefully tomorrow. I can check the leisure battery label but the shop we bought from (Smilebikes Norwich) is delivering them on Sunday (very good of them as it saves us collecting) so I can't check the charger output until then. I'm quite relieved that it looks as though we won't need a huge inverter!

 

[violet]

I bought a bike last week went for weight so I could lift it 13.5 with battery. Onto the van As for the insurance i took the advice of a very serious cyclist he suggest get it listed on house insurance and heyho easy peasy no additional all the usual criteria including goldstandard lock on offer from tredz with chain £33.00 I went though the same issues as you but decided wanted a lighter bike over a tow bar .the really frustrating thing is that someone took a towbar off my van

Which bike did you buy? The lightest ones we could find were heavier than that. We did look at Ribble bikes but they weren't really what we wanted.
Checked our house insurance but it will only cover bikes up to £1000 each. Good tip about the lock, thanks.

 

[Nanniemate]

My insurance does not advertise it, in fact they recommend a bike specialist, but went online, did the amendment on line then called to confirm. The van is classed as an immovable object . But I have decided that if I am away from the van for long time periods and the bike is not with me I will put it inside.

Ribble do a similar bike they are taking pre orders for June/July Juicy do one at 13/16 Kgs

Juicy Bike

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Being fitted for a bike was entertaining spent more time on choosing the bike than any house car or van I have ever bought

The compromise was the battery , one bike a really liked was in the higher price bracket but heavy which not only would have cost another £1000, but I would be in the similar predicament as you over the tow bar.

this is the lock as you often find that if you need to secure it to a lampost the Ulock alone is not big enough

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[violet]

My insurance does not advertise it, in fact they recommend a bike specialist, but went online, did the amendment on line then called to confirm. The van is classed as an immovable object . But I have decided that if I am away from the van for long time periods and the bike is not with me I will put it inside.

Ribble do a similar bike they are taking pre orders for June/July Juicy do one at 13/16 Kgs

My insurance does not advertise it, in fact they recommend a bike specialist, but went online, did the amendment on line then called to confirm. The van is classed as an immovable object . But I have decided that if I am away from the van for long time periods and the bike is not with me I will put it inside.

Ribble do a similar bike they are taking pre orders for June/July Juicy do one at 13/16 Kgs

Juicy Bike

Juicy Bike | Electric Bikes and E-Bikes Made for Hills

www.juicybike.com

https://www.islabikes.co.uk/collections/adult-electric-bikes-eicons

Electric Bikes | E-Bikes | Ribble Cycles

The lightest range of electric bikes available. Ride further, faster and longer with this range of electric bicycles for sale from Ribble Cycles. Ebikes how they should be. Find your next electric road bike.

www.ribblecycles.co.uk

Being fitted for a bike was entertaining spent more time on choosing the bike than any house car or van I have ever bought

The compromise was the battery , one bike a really liked was in the higher price bracket but heavy which not only would have cost another £1000, but I would be in the similar predicament as you over the tow bar.

this is the lock as you often find that if you need to secure it to a lampost the Ulock alone is not big enough

OnGuard Pitbull DT Shackle U-Lock Plus Cable - Diamond Sold Secure Rating | Tredz Bikes

Save 40% - OnGuard Pitbull DT Shackle U-Lock Plus Cable - Diamond Sold Secure Rating £32.99 or available with 0% APR finance on baskets over £99. All D locks are delivered free to the UK mainland*, 365 day returns & Price Match. Buy Now.

www.tredz.co.uk

I have phoned my house insurance again and they will insure the bikes as separate named items. This will be for anywhere in the world and no time limit. Also cheaper than specialist bike insurance.
The Ribble bike we were thinking about was pre-order for September, and they had none of that model in the Clitheroe showroom and didn't seem to expect any.
Which bike did you choose? 13.5 kg is amazingly light.

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[Nanniemate]

I have phoned my house insurance again and they will insure the bikes as separate named items. This will be for anywhere in the world and no time limit. Also cheaper than specialist bike insurance.
The Ribble bike we were thinking about was pre-order for September, and they had none of that model in the Clitheroe showroom and didn't seem to expect any.
Which bike did you choose? 13.5 kg is amazingly light.

Isla they had it in stock went for a fitting tried 3 ordered Tuesday with some extras it arrived by 0830 on the Thursday when I ordered I explained delivery days were limited due to travel could not fault them. And the bike is great still practicing putting it on van but getting easier I also had chunky tyres as the give a more comfy ride then if course the mud guards and stand .it is so light the battery is really used so far I am very happy with it

 

[addoaddo]

You must get a pure-signwave inverter other wise it might damage the charge. I should know killed our Bosch charger. They do take a lot out of the second batttery.

 

[violet]

You must get a pure-signwave inverter other wise it might damage the charge. I should know killed our Bosch charger. They do take a lot out of the second batttery.

Gosh, that must have been frightening. Were you charging as you were driving, or when parked up? Did you have a modified sine wave inverter or were you trying to charge from the cigar lighter?

 

[addoaddo]

It was very uneventfully the charger just stopped working. It was using a cheap modified sine wave inverter. Now I only use good quality inverters (Victron) and have had no problems.