Deadlocks or alarm/immobilizer or don't bother as they are all sub 60 second to break (1 Viewer)

[Talljohn]

Just bought a second hand Possl, based on a Ducato and am thinking about security. I was going to fit deadlocks, then saw how easy it is to id the key code using locksmiths tools. If a thief really wants to get in, then the windows are an easy route for those who don't possess the locksmith kit. Or just pry open the doors and create huge damage. Another option is an alarm/immobilizer, though looking at the Thatcham web site, even the Van bitz solution appears to be sub 60 seconds to breach.

The heosafe appears to offer internal security (for cab doors), which is a nice add on. The deadlocks being visible from the outside may well deter the screwdriver brigade, and the alarm (whilst people tend to ignore it), may stop the vehicle from actually getting stolen. I could go for everything, but really!

Appreciate your views, and any stat's perhaps on what the most common security breach is?

 

[Lenny HB]

A lot of us don't have a choice it's dictated by the insurance company.
I do like an alarm mainly for when we are wilding so if anyone did try and get in we would know about it.
Not too bothered about someone nicking the van providing it's not when we are away in it, a good excuse for a new van.

 

[bigalw35]

I’ve fitted to ours
The heosafe on the habitation door, (to a certain extent for our safety while we’re in bed, or at least in the moho, oh and my stash of beer and brandy)
The fiamma hand grip bars to both doors (complete with the external hasp locks,)
A motor bike disk lock to the driver seat base
A clutch & brake lock
And tent bent tent pegs fixed to singular window openers (Hymer)
And of course a Scorpion alarm

But of course if the tea leaves want your pride and joy, what’s pride and joy to you, is NOT pride and joy to them, it’s just cash !!!

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[DuxDeluxe]

. Another option is an alarm/immobilizer, though looking at the Thatcham web site, even the Van bitz solution appears to be sub 60 seconds to breach.

eddievanbitz is this correct? Having seen on another thread the failure to overcome the non starter even after ripping half the dash board apart..... thanks

 

[Stealaway]

I don't worry about them getting into the van as there is very little of value ever left in the van.
I only ever want to stop the nicking the whole van.
Of course it is fully insured and I would get my moneys back but too much time and and effort has gone into making it what it is.
I've developed a couple of fail safes that I'm confident with.
Everybody has their own methods.

 

[eddie]

Another option is an alarm/immobilizer, though looking at the Thatcham web site, even the Van bitz solution appears to be sub 60 seconds to breach.

Would like to see your source on that? I would be interested as most of the reported attacks on our system seem to end in failure to be honest (so long as the system is turned on)

eddievanbitz is this correct? Having seen on another thread the failure to overcome the non starter even after ripping half the dash board apart..... thanks

That's the norm to be honest.

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[Talljohn]

The Thatcham site lists all the approved products and lists and includes for example reference to products resistant to 60 second attacks, but then to be fair doesn't say how much longer than 60 seconds the products can withstand an attack. It would be good to know how resistant the alarms are. Eddie, any source on that?

 

[Jim]

It would be good to know how resistant the alarms are.

Alarms aren’t resistant like a lock might be. The bulk of their effectiveness is in deterrent and peace of mind.

 

[Talljohn]

Resistant in this context means time to silence the alarm and cancel out the immobiliser.

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[Kannon Fodda]

The Vanbitz system seems pretty effective to me:

Massive thanks to Eddie Vanbitz and Metatrak

Long story, but here goes... My son's MH was stolen a couple of years ago, it was his pride and joy. Fortunately insurance paid out but he never wanted to go through that trauma again, so he bought another MH and went straight to Eddie who recommended going the whole hog with alarm, tracker...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[eddie]

The Thatcham site lists all the approved products and lists and includes for example reference to products resistant to 60 second attacks, but then to be fair doesn't say how much longer than 60 seconds the products can withstand an attack. It would be good to know how resistant the alarms are. Eddie, any source on that?

How about that?

It was still in storage where our customer had left it for him to photograph

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Resistant in this context means time to silence the alarm and cancel out the immobiliser.

It is the Meta systems non starter which is nigh on impossible to crack. There is a thread on this with some gruesome pictures

as above both Rob Kannon Fodda and eddievanbitz got there first. Those pictures convinced me to upgrade my utterly useless scorpion alarm and even worse tracker (that only worked when it decided to and according to Scorpion themselves was disabled by the MB garage in Poole when it was in for - a failed ABS sensor).

edit, forgot to disable the alarm this morning when I unlocked the van and it scared the birds out of the trees

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[The Coops]

The bottom line is of they want to nick it they will, within 5 weeks of most *new* ideas of anti theft devices coming on the market someone has worked out how to override or incapacitate them. Just be sensible, hide a safe or have a safe place in the van to keep valuables in when away from home and get a cheap tracker of e bay that works of a £5 sim card and hide it. If its stolen it will be either broken up for spares or hidden inside a container lined with foil and exported. As others have said don't worry too much that is why we pay insurance, the upsetting part is the intrusion and violation of your space/belongings. All you are doing is making it harder for them in the hope they will move on to someone else's pride and joy

 

[bigalw35]

I must admit although I mentioned earlier I’ve got Scorpion alarm, it ain’t worked properly for months, perhaps mr vanbitz is the answer ?

 

[eddie]

Sadly Thatcham approval doesn't mean an effective installation. This is typical of the type of dealer fit "Thatcham alarm" system our fitters remove on an all too often basis. This is an alarm and a tracking system, simply plugged into the On Board Diagnostic Port in the chassis fuse board, behind a drop down panel!

Not only is this installation most definitely not Thatcham approved so making someone's insurance invalid should the alarm or tracking be a condition of insurance, ignoring the fact that a child could unplug it, being connected to the CAN system makes the alarm and tracking susceptible to electronic attack!

These pathetic installations just make life simple for lazy or inept installers

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[eddie]

Another one that made us laugh! Not content to plug the Navman Teletrac tracking system into the OBDP for simplicity, they then stuck the actual tracking system to the fuse board drop down flap!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I must admit although I mentioned earlier I’ve got Scorpion alarm, it ain’t worked properly for months, perhaps mr vanbitz is the answer ?

Glad that you aren’t the only one......

 

[Just smiffy]

Insurance is the best form of security you can get...

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[eddie]

Having written off a car last year, I would never think that insurance is a viable outcome for a loss.

AVIA made us an offer of £47,000 for the car, which was silly, and luckily we didn't need to grab the money to either buy a replacement, nor was it our only vehicle so didn't really matter, so we laughed at them, and said no!

Over a period of weeks one person after another, none of which apparently knew about previous conversations or why previous offers had been made increased the offer, but, only in increments of a couple of hundred pounds or so.

We ended up settling on £54,000 and only due to me being quite blunt with our broker, making the point that our (Van Bitz) traders policy with AVIA was up for renewal and the premium was going to be £12 - £13,000 which they would loose if they didn't stop pissing us about, and that £13K was a big recoup of the money that they were going to have to pay me out anyway.

Since then, there have been several things that we have realised that we have lost, which we eventually realise must have been in the car when we crashed!

Its a pain in the arse making a big claim, most of the time.

 

[Talljohn]

All good info' thanks everyone. It looks to me that a Heosafe type solution can add personal security, and some enhanced level of actual van access security, but to really stop the complete loss, a quality alarm immobiliser is hard to beat. What is it about the vanbitz system that makes it so hard to beat? Not trying to be difficult here, as the vanbitz solution is on my considered list of purchases.

 

[eddie]

All good info' thanks everyone. It looks to me that a Heosafe type solution can add personal security, and some enhanced level of actual van access security, but to really stop the complete loss, a quality alarm immobiliser is hard to beat. What is it about the vanbitz system that makes it so hard to beat? Not trying to be difficult here, as the vanbitz solution is on my considered list of purchases.

We have specialised for over thirty years, we understand motorhomes, its 100% independent from the vehicle electronics, is is a multi circuit hardwired system that is a series of normally closed circuits around the motorhome. Normally Closed (N/C) as in a domestic system means that when you arm the system, the alarm expects a signal back from each and every sensor on the network, whereas with conventional car alarm or shock horror motorbike alarms that "some" install operate on a Normally Open basis (N/O) Imagine a car door, you open the door and a pin switch or plunger switch "pop" out and closes the wire on the switch to negative and the alarm triggers or interior light comes on. If the switch is faulty or damaged or the wire is broken or comes loose the alarm will never see the door opening nor would that faulty switch be able to "report in" when the alarm is armed, so really vulnerable. Which is why we wouldn't use them, bonnets for example you often see a pin switch packed out with a bit of wood! We use a fully encapsulated tilt switch, hard to damage, can't go rusty.

We don't use ultrasonics, not PIR's we have multiple LED's internally and externally to ensure that a thief knows that the motorhome is alarmed, even at night if you have the blinds and curtains drawn, our systems have an Accessory Protection Circuit (APC) in essence what people call the "bike loop" to enable you to export the alarm our from the motorhome to protect bikes on a rack, a trailer or an "A" framed car

It is hard to pin point one thing about our system, other than our installers are not working on cars, and caravans and motorhomes, only one type of vehicle which we know inside out and back to front, we only fit our own system and we use and own motorhomes ourselves so understand what we want from a system, which is what we aim to give our customers

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

Insurance is the best form of security you can get...

Having written off a car last year, I would never think that insurance is a viable outcome for a loss.

AVIA made us an offer of £47,000 for the car, which was silly, and luckily we didn't need to grab the money to either buy a replacement, nor was it our only vehicle so didn't really matter, so we laughed at them, and said no!

Over a period of weeks one person after another, none of which apparently knew about previous conversations or why previous offers had been made increased the offer, but, only in increments of a couple of hundred pounds or so.

We ended up settling on £54,000 and only due to me being quite blunt with our broker, making the point that our (Van Bitz) traders policy with AVIA was up for renewal and the premium was going to be £12 - £13,000 which they would loose if they didn't stop pissing us about, and that £13K was a big recoup of the money that they were going to have to pay me out anyway.

Since then, there have been several things that we have realised that we have lost, which we eventually realise must have been in the car when we crashed!

Its a pain in the arse making a big claim, most of the time.

In my experience as Eddie also stated , the ONLY thing an insurance policy can guarantee is an argument in the event of a claim.
Far better not to have a loss whether by theft or accident as the payback takes years because all the insurers you use will load premiums even if they haven’t been involved in the original claim.

 

[Ivory55]

Stealing is a job for some people. They will assess the risk for reward and decide if to steal it or not. As in other jobs there are some really good at their job so will overcome problems like good locks and alarms, but there is also a lot of less able at their job and good alarms and locks will put them off.

 

[JJ]

I am a sad, old fulltimer but my motorhome security has a three level system.

Firstly, the van is so obviously old and decrepit that no one would want to steal it...

Secondly, there is nothing worth anything inside it to steal and...

Thirdly, I leave the door unlocked just in case there is a really, really stupid thief who wants to check out the inside and can do so without causing any damage...

Obviously not much use to all you folk with much more valuable and sort after vehicles packed with luxury items (coffee machines and microwaves) but at least I sleep calmly and deeply.

JJ

(PS. don't tell Eddie...)

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[Eggs]

I am a sad, old fulltimer but my motorhome security has a three level system.

Firstly, the van is so obviously old and decrepit that no one would want to steal it...

Secondly, there is nothing worth anything inside it to steal and...

Thirdly, I leave the door unlocked just in case there is a really, really stupid thief who wants to check out the inside and can do so without causing any damage...

Obviously not much use to all you folk with much more valuable and sort after vehicles packed with luxury items (coffee machines and microwaves) but at least I sleep calmly and deeply.

JJ

(PS. don't tell Eddie...)

Same, most tea leaves wouldn't know where the cranking handle goes.

 

[Just smiffy]

We have specialised for over thirty years, we understand motorhomes, its 100% independent from the vehicle electronics, is is a multi circuit hardwired system that is a series of normally closed circuits around the motorhome. Normally Closed (N/C) as in a domestic system means that when you arm the system, the alarm expects a signal back from each and every sensor on the network, whereas with conventional car alarm or shock horror motorbike alarms that "some" install operate on a Normally Open basis (N/O) Imagine a car door, you open the door and a pin switch or plunger switch "pop" out and closes the wire on the switch to negative and the alarm triggers or interior light comes on. If the switch is faulty or damaged or the wire is broken or comes loose the alarm will never see the door opening nor would that faulty switch be able to "report in" when the alarm is armed, so really vulnerable. Which is why we wouldn't use them, bonnets for example you often see a pin switch packed out with a bit of wood! We use a fully encapsulated tilt switch, hard to damage, can't go rusty.

We don't use ultrasonics, not PIR's we have multiple LED's internally and externally to ensure that a thief knows that the motorhome is alarmed, even at night if you have the blinds and curtains drawn, our systems have an Accessory Protection Circuit (APC) in essence what people call the "bike loop" to enable you to export the alarm our from the motorhome to protect bikes on a rack, a trailer or an "A" framed car

It is hard to pin point one thing about our system, other than our installers are not working on cars, and caravans and motorhomes, only one type of vehicle which we know inside out and back to front, we only fit our own system and we use and own motorhomes ourselves so understand what we want from a system, which is what we aim to give our customers

In my experience as Eddie also stated , the ONLY thing an insurance policy can guarantee is an argument in the event of a claim.
Far better not to have a loss whether by theft or accident as the payback takes years because all the insurers you use will load premiums even if they haven’t been involved in the original claim.

Oh don’t get me wrong, insurance companies are the biggest robbers going... but I suppose they’re a bit like Robin Hood they robb everyone but give a little bit back sometimes.....

if anyone wants your van they’ll have it and the harder you make it for them the more damage they will do and then you’ll wish they had nicked it....

 

[TheBig1]

If you take a look in the ssecurity section of the forum, you will see a few reviews of physical security from theft. Most alarms and immobilisers are pretty much worthless the way they get installed. The professional thief knows how and where to look and pull them out. A properly installed system is integrated into the vehicle, making removal difficult and a good tracker and immobiliser will resist any attempt to drive away

A typical theft involves cloning a key to open the door and steering lock. then using electronics to over ride the immobiliser via the OBD port. This is the fabled 60 second theft, and extremely easy to achieve, ridiculously cheaply

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[eddie]

The vast majority of motorhome crime is the theft "from" the motorhome, by opportunists, not the theft "of" the motorhome by professionals

Your motorhome is more likely to be stolen from you when it is on your drive or in storage than it is when your touring around

Opportunistic theft is the easiest to deter, starting with common sense and a decent security system. Like running away from a Lion you do not have to be able to run faster than the Lion, you just need to run faster than the slowest person running away. So long as your motorhome security system is better than that the other nine people on the Aire have fitted, your fine.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Most alarms and immobilisers are pretty much worthless the way they get installed. The professional thief knows how and where to look and pull them out

Yes..... as I recall, the attempted theft in the pictures and thread above, the toe rags had already removed the trackers from several caravans ready to roll out in convoy.

When you see vans with a “factory fitted” system, you just know it is going to be easy to find as it will always be the same wiring in the same place

 

[Nasher]

The way I figure it:

You fit and use whatever security the insurers want - so you're insured

In addition, you fit & use whatever security devices that makes you feel comfortable - for your own peace of mind (there's plenty to choose from)

But remember, none of these will stop your van being nicked or broken into by a determined criminal


A few further observations:

As I've posted before, I can't find any statistics for the amount of thefts of or from motorhomes, so it's probably not a pandemic

Motorhome insurance is relatively cheap - from which I assume the risks are relatively low

Paranoia is easily generated by social media (as well as other forms of media)

My main method of security is not taking my Rolex watch with when I'm on my holidays in my box on wheels, plus I rarely use/carry much cash - so even if/when I'm gassed, I won't lose too much

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