Cycling 2 abreast

[Mrjenben]

Useful info.

 

[bobnick]

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

What would you say the maximum size of the 2 abreast group/peloton should be?

 

[chaser]

What if they are taking the whole width of the road as they do here?

 

[Winger]

Oh, where’s my popcorn

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[DBK]

Useful info.

It is, but as the second post demonstrates many motorists don't get it. I've given up cycling on my local roads because of the ignorance of a few motorists who think I should be riding in the gutter so I can be overtaken on blind bends without them having to slow down or even look ahead for oncoming traffic. The default riding position is the middle of the carriageway and you should only pull over when necessary to let someone past and even then never nearer the edge of the road than one metre. The HMSO guide Cyclecraft sets all this out but the average motorist hasn't read it or even knows of its existence.

 

[jumar]

Riding two abreast is common sense...the problem I have is that my riding companions cannot keep up with me..
Here in Spain the Traffic rules are in favour or the cyclist.....knock someone off a bike will result in a driver getting well and truly stuffed.
A large group on a roundabout have priority even if it a vehicles right to enter...
Giving a wide berth of 1.5m to pass a cyclist is also required....
So I totally agree with what Mrjenben has posted...give us riders the respect we deserve, we are helping to save the planet..

 

[dazandandrea]

Dont get me started

 

[busby]

It is, but as the second post demonstrates many motorists don't get it. I've given up cycling on my local roads because of the ignorance of a few motorists who think I should be riding in the gutter so I can be overtaken on blind bends without them having to slow down or even look ahead for oncoming traffic. The default riding position is the middle of the carriageway and you should only pull over when necessary to let someone past and even then never nearer the edge of the road than one metre. The HMSO guide Cyclecraft sets all this out but the average motorist hasn't read it or even knows of its existence.

The average motorist hasn't even read The Highway Code..BUSBY.

 

[bigtwin]

Things are rarely black or white.

The two abreast argument certainly holds water. The problem is that some cyclists will use that argument to ‘justify’ riding in a peleton arrangement while conveniently overlooking other HC requirements with the end result that they create a hazard for other road users, not to mention to themselves.

A peloton of a certain size may be perfectly appropriate on one section of a road but may be entirely inappropriate on another section of the same road.

Consideration, consideration, consideration is what is required from all road users.

Ian

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[EuroTrotters]

Im a cyclist (not professional) just mountain biker on mostly flat since my accident.

We ride single and allow a big gap to allow people to overtake one at a time (I think most can work that one out).

We always try to use cycle paths as driving on main roads with vehicles is too dangerous. Mostly down to Mobile phone use or

Third cyclist dies after drunk driver accident in Valencia

Victim had been in hospital since Sunday, when a driver rammed into a group of riders near Oliva

english.elpais.com

As A cyclist, I have a lot of patience for fellow riders. Regardless of how they ride.


What does pee me off.....

*Cyclists who ride on the roads when there is a perfectly good and safe dedicated lane to the side (Alderley edge bypass is a good example)
*Drivers who drive past the above too close to make a point
*Professional riders who ride too fast past young children on cycle lanes
*People on e-bikes riding too fast on cycle lanes (They and the above should use the roads)

 

[DiggerJon]

Methinks this debate could run and run! Motorists in general are just so impatient nowadays and get reckless in their overtaking, especially with cyclists. Some cyclists don't help themselves such as wearing all black which allows them to blend in with the scenery too easily. I was a cyclist for many years and always found it on the perilous side on two wheels. With major balance issues, I "converted" to a recumbent tricycle which always led to the question "aren't you vulnerable down there?". Strangely enough, I always felt safer as I was noticed far more than a "proper" cyclist as I believe motorists only recognise unusual objects when driving, and cyclists, cars, buses, vans etc. are just "normal" and, though noticed, are not regarded as "different". I rode from Edinburgh to my home in Dorset on my tricycle, and without exception had no motorist act impatiently to overtake me, in fact I had lorry drivers block carriageways for me when I was wanting to turn right off a main road. I got home and the used two wheels to get into town, about a mile away, and was almost knocked off twice by impatient motorists.............

 

[gus-lopez]

What would you say the maximum size of the 2 abreast group/peloton should be?

here it is legally defined as 5 pairs of 2. 2 is legally defined as 1 car. After introducing the law they then modified it as the groups were too large & it was dangeros even on open straight roads to overtake.

What if they are taking the whole width of the road as they do here?

Here regardless of where they are you have to legally give a minimum of 1,5 m to the outer rider. Therefore it is not legally possible to overtake on any road under 8m wide. most roads around here are defined as 4,5 or 6m in width

we are helping to save the planet..

you have enough accidents falling off on your own

 

[glenn2926]

I was taught whilst learning to drive that I shouldn’t do anything which causes any other road user to change speed or direction.
So what gives cyclists the right to cause every other road user to do both of these things? Not very thoughtful for others really.
We certainly don’t ride two abreast on our motorcycles. Not that we hold anyone up anyway. A lot of cyclists do seem to go out of their way to be obstreperous toward other road users. They most certainly don’t like it if they are obstructed by others as I can personally attest to.

 

[mofurt]

Dedicated cycle paths can be great, or they can be terrible. If I'm cycling at 25mph, should I really be on a shared use pavement with kids and pedestrians, and having to stop at every side road?

If there's a group of 10 cyclists in a close form 2x5 group, should they all stop at the side of the road to allow one car past? Is that one car more important than 10 cyclists? Should a slow motorhome pull over as soon as a fast car approaches behind? Should tractors be banned from all roads so Mr Toad doesn't have to slow down? Or should we all share and accept that sometimes you'll be slightly inconvenienced whilst accessing a shared resource that is paid for by everyone?

In reality, motor vehicle journeys aren't hugely impacted by cyclists; you'll just be slightly later getting to the next traffic queue.

Some cyclists are idiots, they are the ones you remember. Some motorists are idiots, they are the ones you remember too. But the vast majority of cyclists you see are also motorists. And parents. And normal, working people. Sometimes it's easy to forget that when the red mist of "I've been held up for 30 seconds or had to back off on the accelerator therefore they are scum and are doing it deliberately and deserve to die" descends.

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[jumar]

Never feel over safe whilst riding in the UK, however some European countries have either Cycling dedicated lanes or rules that protect cyclists...we generally know when visitors here are passing us...be it in a car, motorhome or truck..."Phew that was close" as for the caravan towing road user...quite often give you space...until they forget they have a few metres following...

 

[Pirahna]

Nothing interesting in the Daily Mail today?

 

[mofurt]

With major balance issues, I "converted" to a recumbent tricycle which always led to the question "aren't you vulnerable down there?". Strangely enough, I always felt safer as I was noticed far more than a "proper" cyclist as I believe motorists only recognise unusual objects when driving, and cyclists, cars, buses, vans etc. are just "normal" and, though noticed, are not regarded as "different". I rode from Edinburgh to my home in Dorset on my tricycle, and without exception had no motorist act impatiently to overtake me, in fact I had lorry drivers block carriageways for me when I was wanting to turn right off a main road. I got home and the used two wheels to get into town, about a mile away, and was almost knocked off twice by impatient motorists.............

I broke my leg badly last year, and bought a second hand Trice to get moving again; apart from anything else I didn't trust my bad leg to take my weight when I stopped. My experience was exactly the same - it felt far safer and I got no impatient or punishment passes. Admittedly I only rode it on country lanes, but even so the difference was noticeable. I'm not sure if it wasn't a bit of people thinking I was disabled and being more patient because of that.
The other thing with a trike is they look wide, so people give more room for the overtake, even though they actually take little more road space.

 

[bobandjanie]

One or two abreast 1.5m gap and make sure it's clear because there could be a hazard round the corner. Bob.

 

[Mrjenben]

This advice from Surrey Police might help answer some of the questions raised?

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[The Wino]

Riding two abreast is common sense...the problem I have is that my riding companions cannot keep up with me..
Here in Spain the Traffic rules are in favour or the cyclist.....knock someone off a bike will result in a driver getting well and truly stuffed.
A large group on a roundabout have priority even if it a vehicles right to enter...
Giving a wide berth of 1.5m to pass a cyclist is also required....
So I totally agree with what Mrjenben has posted...give us riders the respect we deserve, we are helping to save the planet..

How are a large group of riders helping to save the planet?. It's true people cycling to work are helping save the planet but not large groups out riding together for fun they would be much better for the planet walking.

 

[The Wino]

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But isn't it even more courteous to motorists to ride in a few smaller groups abreast so that motorists can overtake then pull in rather than try and pass the lot in one go

 

[MattR]

But isn't it even more courteous to motorists to ride in a few smaller groups abreast so that motorists can overtake then pull in rather than try and pass the lot in one go

Better to have one group of 2x5 rather than a 2x2 and a 2x3 ... cars seem to pass more safely than when they think they can squeeze past and slip in between smaller groups.

 

[jumar]

How are a large group of riders helping to save the planet?. It's true people cycling to work are helping save the planet but not large groups out riding together for fun they would be much better for the planet walking.

Saving the planet was a Joke...

But isn't it even more courteous to motorists to ride in a few smaller groups abreast so that motorists can overtake then pull in rather than try and pass the lot in one go

A motorists view.... assume you don't ride a bike. Pack riding is generally a way that cyclists group up and maintain a speed...

 

[AJM2]

Two abreast assumes both can cycle competently. I have seen a wobbler cause an accident that, had the car driver acted with the same level of skill as the cyclist, could well have been fatal.

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[Mrjenben]

But isn't it even more courteous to motorists to ride in a few smaller groups abreast so that motorists can overtake then pull in rather than try and pass the lot in one go

It’s always a trade off - ease of overtake vs number of overtakes. The advice is normally to stick to groups of around 10 (2x5). I think it’s unusual to come across groups bigger than this anyway unless it’s an organised event

 

[The Wino]

It’s always a trade off - ease of overtake vs number of overtakes. The advice is normally to stick to groups of around 10 (2x5). I think it’s unusual to come across groups bigger than this anyway unless it’s an organised event

We used regularly to come across a pretty drawn out gaggle with someone at the front and back in a yellow vest seemingly in charge they were typically spread out over 100 yards with no usable gaps on country lanes making it impossible to overtake safely. To it seemed a really stupid way to ride I waited others migght well have not they were making it more dangerous for themselves

 

[jumar]

We used regularly to come across a pretty drawn out gaggle with someone at the front and back in a yellow vest seemingly in charge they were typically spread out over 100 yards with no usable gaps on country lanes making it impossible to overtake safely. To it seemed a really stupid way to ride I waited others migght well have not they were making it more dangerous for themselves

That was the Tour de France you were following....

 

[Nirvanauk]

Useful info.

View attachment 558772

 

[St3v3]

On a tangent I know....

You can always tell a cyclist who is going to be a tvvat about his "rights". He'll be wearing a camera.

The cyclist boxes at traffic lights I don't normally have a problem with, but one guy pulled in and across the middle of the front of my car. Had he have stayed left, there would have been ample time for me to safely overtake. When I spoke to him he said he was allowed to. I said he didn't have to though. He didn't really have an answer. His actions held me up, was it deliberately or without consideration? I don't know...

He had a camera

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