Converting Tandem to electric useing 1000w front wheel drive ? Would it be dangerous on the road

PeterCarole29

PeterCarole29

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I am looking at a bike that has been converted by the owner. Nothing wrong with the bike or the parts used as they are almost new.
I just am concerned the set up would be impracticle with a lot of weight on the front wheel.
Having raced Enduro many yrs ago the focus was always on ballance and set up.

Please any experience and advice or even if someone has used electric bikes with front wheel drive
 
Just bought a hub motor e bike, the weight is not in the motor but the battery I would have thought!👍😁
 
PeterCarole29 said:
I am looking at a bike that has been converted by the owner. Nothing wrong with the bike or the parts used as they are almost new.
I just am concerned the set up would be impracticle with a lot of weight on the front wheel.
Having raced Enduro many yrs ago the focus was always on ballance and set up.

Please any experience and advice or even if someone has used electric bikes with front wheel drive
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Not used front motor drive, but a 1000w motor is illegal.
 
1000W? That is a big motor and I suspect not road legal although rules for tandems may differ from standard e-bikes. Normally 250W is the maximum.
 
I hired a front wheel drive ebike to ride round Carsington Water as part of my research into what ebike I wanted, it was the least stable of any I rode and I definitely wasn't going to buy one! When traction became an issue so did staying on the darn thing.
 
PeterCarole29 said:
I am looking at a bike that has been converted by the owner. Nothing wrong with the bike or the parts used as they are almost new.
I just am concerned the set up would be impracticle with a lot of weight on the front wheel.
Having raced Enduro many yrs ago the focus was always on ballance and set up.

Please any experience and advice or even if someone has used electric bikes with front wheel drive
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Sounds like a lot of power to be putting into the front wheel and forks, I would be concerned that it might spin the wheel on climbs and in the wet especially, is it controllable or a bit crude? what tyres are on it road bike or mountain bike. As far as weight tandems are not light to start with so that might not be the issue.
 
The bike needs to meet EAPC rules for an ebike. Generally 250w max and limited to 15mph. Then under UK legislation it is classed as a bicycle and you do not require tax and insurance (also you can't get points on your car license for things like speeding or cycling while under the influence as these only apply to motor vehicles) .

If the bike doesn't conform to EAPC then its classed as a moped or motorbike depending on power output and requires registration, tax and insurance. In reality you are unlikely to be able to get it registered as such so in general such vehicles ae not road legal in any way. You are also liable to all laws that apply to motorvehicles and can have your license endorsed for any useage outside the law e.g riding without tax, insurance etc.

Reference
 
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We like the front wheel drive on our kegal ebikes. Helps when walking alongside the bikes on really steeo hills, esoecially off road as it pulls you up. When pedaling on loose gravel, mud etc you have twi-wheel drive. Not quite 4x4 but does make the bike more stable.

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I've got two front wheel drive e-bikes, both are 250w, the first one is a whosh with 16" wheels and is an absolute riot to ride, will spin its front wheel in the wet but its never been a problem, just a laugh.
The other bike is a go-cycle with 20" wheels and that's much more civilised and smoother with a very nice power delivery.
From riding these, and other e-bikes I've built, I don't think I'd like to try a 1000w front wheel drive tandem, rear wheel drive, yes, maybe, but think two up on a tandem and the wrong conditions could potentially cause a rather unfortunate incident
 
At 1kw motor it is a moped not an electric assist bicycle.
You will need licencs, tax and insurance.
Besides, 1kw into the front wheel seems very high.
 
Thankyou all for your advice and knowledge I am now well informed will now only look at uk legal set ups
It’s specifically a folding tandem we are looking for there is a new one you can get for £1800
We will sell our folding e-bikes we got last year at just over half price
Would consider converting one ourselves
 
PhilMary said:
At 1kw motor it is a moped not an electric assist bicycle.
You will need licencs, tax and insurance.
Besides, 1kw into the front wheel seems very high.
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My moped is 1500 watts. Are there 1000watt ones? I reckon that would be very under powered for a moped. suppose it depends on the style. Mines scooter so fairly heavy. I have seem more cycle style ones abroad thta may be 1000 Watts - not sure if legal in the UK though.

Its a problem area - so many variations. Seen quite a few of these big 'balloon' tyred things around going over 15mph and not pedalling. Definitly illegal but not much done by police in this area.
 
VXman said:
My moped is 1500 watts. Are there 1000watt ones? I reckon that would be very under powered for a moped. suppose it depends on the style. Mines scooter so fairly heavy. I have seem more cycle style ones abroad thta may be 1000 Watts - not sure if legal in the UK though.

Its a problem area - so many variations. Seen quite a few of these big 'balloon' tyred things around going over 15mph and not pedalling. Definitly illegal but not much done by police in this area.
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It's not that there are mopeds with 1000w, just anything over 250w is classed as a motor vehicle (and needs MOT, tax, insurance, number plate), so would technically be a moped rather than an electric assist bicycle.
 
A 1000 Watts on the rear wheels is great. You don't have to pedal when you feel tired. A pleasure to go uphill!
 
PeterCarole29 said:
Thankyou all for your advice and knowledge I am now well informed will now only look at uk legal set ups
It’s specifically a folding tandem we are looking for there is a new one you can get for £1800
We will sell our folding e-bikes we got last year at just over half price
Would consider converting one ourselves
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I have run a front hub conversion made by the very experienced German company Heinzmann. It has 65nm/250 watt motor and is fully EU and UK compliant and has worked without fault for 2 years / 6000 miles in my Thorn Nomad bike. There is a a UK supplier for Heinzmann, who was brilliant when I bought mine - just search for Heinzmann direct drive.
 
donkey said:
Only applies after a certain year. My old Powabike 6 has choice of throttle or pedal assist and is perfectly legal

Geoff
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Can you please direct me to this legislation?
I have been thinking on an electric bike for some time now and have researched the rules and regs and have never seen any mention of older bikes being legal.
Thanks.
 
poppycamper said:
Can you please direct me to this legislation?
I have been thinking on an electric bike for some time now and have researched the rules and regs and have never seen any mention of older bikes being legal.
Thanks.
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The old rules didn't specify how the assist could be triggered. So many bikes had a throttle or button. In 2016, the rules were updated so you had to be pedalling to get assist (beyond walking pace as wheeling assist is allowed). As older bikes were certified as compliant before the change, they remain legal.

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Wife's had front wheel drive bike since 2016.She loves it.Never had a problem with being unstable.
 
EuroTrotters said:
my wife had a bike with a heavy front electric hub. They can be very unstable and she fell off it twice. Would not have another.
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It depends entirely on the geometry of the bike. My (non electric) Brompton becomes more stable as you add load to the front carrier. I've had a crate of beer over the front wheel with no issues. My wife's electric Brompton with a front hub motor is more stable than mine.
 
PhilMary said:
At 1kw motor it is a moped not an electric assist bicycle.
You will need licencs, tax and insurance.
Besides, 1kw into the front wheel seems very high.
Click to expand...

Indeed 1kW into a front fork which normally is NEVER pulled forwards is a recipe for a collapsed fork.
 
DMartin said:
Indeed 1kW into a front fork which normally is NEVER pulled forwards is a recipe for a collapsed fork.
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Most deformations on a bike frame will be roughly symmetrically elastic. Just as strong pulling as pushing. 1kW as a force is a lot less than hard braking or mullering it off a big pothole. Rear wheel would be safer though.
 
If it is a tandem you are looking for have a look at JD Tandems in Gargrave. Knowledge and service second to none. We have bought 4 non electric tandems from them, I won't go into why, but we still have 3!

They do conversions but also have tandems that are designed from the bottom up and are electric. I have no relationship with them apart from being a very very satisfied customer.
 

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