Connect victron bluesmart charger via EBL119

[gerry mcg]

Am in correct in thinking I can use Block 7 of the EBL119 to wire in my new 15A Victron Bluesmart charger with a lithium profile to charge the leisure battery using the existing ebl119 wiring Simply by using a 2 pin Mate N Lock connector block and removing the power supply lead and / or the 20A charger fuse from the EBL?

 

[Ditcha]

Yes that should work just remove the existing charger fuse to disable it. I would keep the 240v lead as this tells you when you are plugged in on the control panel.

You would also need to insert a 20amp fuse at Zusatz Ladegerat on the EBL if there isn't already one in place.

 

[gerry mcg]

The victron charger is already fused at 20A, but the is no harm in a n additional 20v fuse on the EBL.
I had planned on using the EBL 240V feed to power the victron charger as it is pre wired and RCD protected

 

[Ditcha]

The victron charger is already fused at 20A, but the is no harm in a n additional 20v fuse on the EBL.
I had planned on using the EBL 240V feed to power the victron charger as it is pre wired and RCD protected

You will need to add the fuse at the EBL to complete the circuit, you can do as you say but will lose the 240v indicator on your control panel, might be worth looking for a 2 in 1 kettle plug splitter if there is such a thing and you could plug both in.

 

[Ditcha]

Something like this

IEC Power Y Splitter adapter, C14 plug (male) to 2x C13 sockets (female) kettle | eBay

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[Pausim]

might be worth locking for a 2 in 1 kettle plug splitter if there is such a thing

There is, I used to use one for this purpose. The advice I got from Udo Lang at Schaudt was simply remove the 20A fuse, as you suggested, because not only does this leave the panel indicator active but also allows the EBL to trickle charge the engine battery using the original charger (EBL29).

 

[Ditcha]

I have noticed that the trickle charging of the starter battery feature isn't the same for all EBL,s so worth checking on your own model.
If not you could just fit a battery standby charger to take care of this and not expensive.

 

[Shida mingi]

The EBL119 only has charging profiles for Lead Acid/Gel and AGM - not Lithium. I would remove the 20A fuse and use only the Victron to charge your lithium battery. You can configure the Victron to the exact requirements of your battery specifications. The EBL cannot do this. Motorhomer on YouTube show how to do this on an Adria Twin.

 

[Pausim]

If in doubt this is the email address for Udo at Schaudt, he will reply in English.
Udo.Lang@schaudt-gmbh.de

 

[autorouter]

The EBL119 normally trickle-charges the starter battery from the internal charger. The starter battery charge relay is switched on by the internal charger output. The starter battery feed has a slightly reduced voltage from the full leisure battery charger voltage.

If the 'Internes Lademodul' fuse is removed, while leaving the internal charger powered, the internal charger will still switch on the starter battery charge relay. But it won't trickle-charge the starter battery.

If you connect an auxiliary charger to the Block 7 2-way connector, you need to add a 20A 'Zusatz Ladegerat' fuse to connect it up internally. It will then trickle-charge the starter battery, because the relay will be switched on by the internal charger. Again, the voltage will be slightly reduced, to a level suitable for the starter battery.

So the upshot is, you need to power both the internal charger and the auxiliary charger, but if you do, the starter battery will be trickle-charged.

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[Pausim]

This is what Udo said for my EBL29, perhaps the 119 is different but it looked similar when I compared the wiring diagrams.
“The mains connection please leave at the EBL. Just remove the 20A fuse at the EBL´ s front side. This is the fuse “internal charger” (internes Ladegerät).
Then the indication light at the panel will shine when the 230V is there and the starter battery will get a fload charging. The connection to the leisure battery is cut.
Best Regards
Udo.”

 

[gerry mcg]

I have a VanBitz Battery Master fitted anyway so trickle charging the starter battery is taken care of independent of the EBL as well

 

[autorouter]

Then the indication light at the panel will shine when the 230V is there and the starter battery will get a fload charging.

This is true, but the float charging won't come from the internal charger, because the fuse has been removed from the internal charger output. If there is an auxiliary charger connected to the 2-way connector, and the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' fuse is inserted, then charge to the leisure battery comes from the auxiliary charger, and it will also float charge the starter battery.

 

[gerry mcg]

On my van, the EBL 240V power cable kettle end is joined to the RCD protected 240v power cable by means of this type of wago connectors
"25A 250V 3 Pole Plug & socket with Relief Housing Black'
It looks like I can use the existing socket and wire a second output to the plug that will power the new charger and the existing EBL from the same RCD protected circuit

 

[Ditcha]

This is true, but the float charging won't come from the internal charger, because the fuse has been removed

The starter battery float charge does come from the internal charger on some EBL,s even with the mains charger fuse removed like the EBL 29 as Pausim said he had.
It also looks like the EBL 119 has this as well the starter battery output is protected by a 2,5a poly fuse

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[Pausim]

This is true, but the float charging won't come from the internal charger, because the fuse has been removed from the internal charger output. If there is an auxiliary charger connected to the 2-way connector, and the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' fuse is inserted, then charge to the leisure battery comes from the auxiliary charger, and it will also float charge the starter battery.

I think this is a useful facility because it still only switches the engine battery float charge on when the mains is connected. With a LiFePO4 leisure battery a voltage sensing battery maintainer is likely to stay switched on without the mains attached because of the higher Li battery voltage.

Edit. I have removed my Sterling Battery Maintainer because of the constant drain on the leisure battery.

 

[Ditcha]

The EBL 241-2 which is in our moho does not have the auxiliary charger interface, but the victron multiplus I am fitting does have a 4 amp output for the starter batt. which should take care of it.

 

[autorouter]

The starter battery float charge does come from the internal charger on some EBL,s even with the mains charger fuse removed like the EBL 29 as @Pausim said he had.
It also looks like the EBL 119 has this as well the starter battery output is protected by a 2,5a poly fuse

Sorry, I don't know about every single different EBL, but all the ones I have the diagrams for, including the 101, 29 and 119, do NOT do this. The first thing on the internal charger output is a 20A fuse. If you pull that, no output passes anywhere.

There is a second 'control' output that lights the mains indicator on the panel, and switches the starter battery trickle-charge relay. It doesn't actually charge the starter battery.

If another charger is connected to the internal shunt, then a trickle-charge can flow through a voltage reducer to the starter battery. But only if the relay is switched on by the internal charger control output.

 

[Ditcha]

Sorry, I don't know about every single different EBL, but all the ones I have the diagrams for, including the 101, 29 and 119, do NOT do this. The first thing on the internal charger output is a 20A fuse. If you pull that, no output passes anywhere.

There is a second 'control' output that lights the mains indicator on the panel, and switches the starter battery trickle-charge relay. It doesn't actually charge the starter battery.

If another charger is connected to the internal shunt, then a trickle-charge can flow through a voltage reducer to the starter battery. But only if the relay is switched on by the internal charger control output.

I wonder why Udo Lang of schaudt stated the start battery would receive a charge in Pausim email reply even when the internal charger 20amp fuse was pulled bit confusing, unless he was refuring to when a auxiliary charge was attached as well

 

[Pausim]

I wonder why Udo Lang of schaudt stated the start battery would receive a charge in Pausim email reply even when the internal charger 20amp fuse was pulled bit confusing, unless he was refuring to when a auxiliary charge was attached as well

I think that was because I had already told him I would be wiring a Sterling mains charger directly to the leisure battery. This would mean that the battery & charger would power all the EBL 12V circuits, including the engine battery trickle charge circuit, which would have been activated by the EBL detecting the mains connection. The removal of the fuse simply separates the two 12V circuits which would be operating at different voltages.

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[gerry mcg]

Hmmm.
These Mate n Lock connectors are only rated at 10A, so won’t be suitable to wire a 15A charger into the EBL. These fit into teh EBL female socket.
there are larger 3.5mm Mate n Lock connectors that are good up to 20A, but am i correct in thinking these won’t fit in the EBL female socket (max 5mm2 cable size)?
3mm2 cable is rated to 33A, 4mm2 rated to 39A, - with a 1m voltage drop of 1.5% or 1.1% respectively.

if the 3.5mm Mate and lock don’t fit in the EBL, I’ll need to wire direct to the battery rather than through the EBL

 

[gerry mcg]

I'm kind of resigned to not you be able to wire the 15A charger via the EBL due to the cable size limitations posed by the 10A mate n lock connectors and I assume the 3.5mm ones won't fit the female connection in Block 7 of the EBL.
In that case, I'm going to need to connect the Charger direct to the leisure battery.

I need to add a positive feed for the charger somehow

Currently, my 50A B2B and EBL are under the passenger seat and my 200Ah lithium battery is under the drivers seat.

There is not a lot of space left on the positive battery terminal so add another cable and little space to fit a a Busbar close to the battery under the driver seat.

Is there anything stopping me

• Fitting a +ive busbar around the passenger seat area
• Wiring a short 16mm2 cable from the B2B output to the busbar,
• rewiring the existing 16mm2 B2B output to leisure battery so it connects the leisure battery to the busbar
• Mount the the Victron charger close to the passenger seat and connecting the + charger output to the +ive busbar
• This means the same 16mm2 cable will supply both the B2B and charger current to the leisure battery.

This would prevent me having to route another cable across the cab.

I've already got a Busbar on the Ground side of my Victron BMV shunt to accommodate all the ground terminals

 

[autorouter]

These Mate n Lock connectors are only rated at 10A, so won’t be suitable to wire a 15A charger into the EBL. These fit into teh EBL female socket.

It's possible to double up these connectors to increase the current capacity. Some of the 'Spare' circuits do this, for example. If you are not using the 'Solar' input (the 3-way connector) you could use that to double up the capacity. Pin 3, through the 15A 'Solar' fuse, connects to the same point internally as Pin 2 of the Auxiliary charger through its 20A fuse.

The Mate'N'Lok pins I used I was sure were rated at 15A, but I can't find the reference. Also I bought some high-current ones, with partially gold-plated contacts, rated at 20A, but these are obviously not used in the EBL sockets. I was repairing the 4-way fridge socket which melted and discoloured.

Otherwise, your scheme of using a busbar near the B2B output sounds like it will work OK.

Edit: Sorry, just noticed on your photo the Solar input is already in use.

 

[Ditcha]

The schaudt auxiliary charger is 18amp so you should be able to connect a 15amp charger okay attached pdf of the schaudt unit with cable references

 

[gerry mcg]

The schaudt auxiliary charger is 18amp so you should be able to connect a 15amp charger okay attached pdf of the schaudt unit with cable references

I have the manual and i know the EBL pushes out 18A, but it does that via the 16mm2 cables connected to the battery at the rear of the EBL.

I think you misunderstood the problem

the issue is the Block 7 Mate and lock connector which allows an external charger to connect to Block 7 of the EBL appears to be rated to 10A, and also, the pin connectors only appear able to take cable up to 2mm2, which is insufficient for a 15A charger - that would require a minimum of 3mm3 cable (rated at 33A,) but preferably 4mm2 or 6mm2 cables. (Rated at 39A or 50A respectively)

in order to get a 20A rated mate n lock connector, i need a 3.5mm connector - but i doubt these will fit into the Block 7 Mate N lock on the EBL.

as a result, i need to direct wire the 15A charger to the leisure battery, bypassing the EBL as it exceeds the A rating of the Mate Nlock connector that it would use by 50%

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[Ditcha]

I have the manual and i know the EBL pushes out 18A, but it does that via the 16mm2 cables connected to the battery at the rear of the EBL.

I think you misunderstood the problem

the issue is the Block 7 Mate and lock connector which allows an external charger to connect to Block 7 of the EBL appears to be rated to 10A, and also, the pin connectors only appear able to take cable up to 2mm2, which is insufficient for a 15A charger - that would require a minimum of 3mm3 cable (rated at 33A,) but preferably 4mm2 or 6mm2 cables. (Rated at 39A or 50A respectively)

in order to get a 20A rated mate n lock connector, i need a 3.5mm connector - but i doubt these will fit into the Block 7 Mate N lock on the EBL.

as a result, i need to direct wire the 15A charger to the leisure battery, bypassing the EBL as it exceeds the A rating of the Mate Nlock connector that it would use by 50%

Sorry the pdf I have attached is for the auxiliary charger LS 1218-2 for reference which is 18amp and connects to the EBL at block 7 with the shown cable thought that's how you wanted to connect your 15amp charger

 

[paddymcc]

Sorry the pdf I have attached is for the auxiliary charger LS 1218-2 for reference which is 18amp and connects to the EBL at block 7 with the shown cable thought that's how you wanted to connect your 15amp charger

If that's the case you might be able to get the connecting cable from Schaudt?

 

[Ditcha]

If that's the case you might be able to get the connecting cable from Schaudt?

Yeah that's what I thought

 

[gerry mcg]

Sorry the pdf I have attached is for the auxiliary charger LS 1218-2 for reference which is 18amp and connects to the EBL at block 7 with the shown cable thought that's how you wanted to connect your 15amp charger

Apologies. I am on my mobile and skiing in France at the moment, so I just scanned it quickly and assumed it was the EBL manual...
I'll have a proper look...

 

[gerry mcg]

If that's the case you might be able to get the connecting cable from Schaudt?

Thanks. I had a proper look last night and I can’t seem to find the Schaudt cable “3 - Item number 999.085 with MNL connector” anywhere online -
I’ve emailed Udo@schaudt to see if this is something they can supply (but i am not optimistic )

regarding wiring the charger to the 240 supply, the Schaudt manual says

My van came with the EBL connected via the WAGO connectors mentioned above (25A 250V 3 Pole Plug & socket with Relief Housing Black” and “25A 250V 3 Pole Plug with Relief Housing Black” and “25A 250v 3 pole socket with relief housing” these allow a second 3 core 240v cable to be connected into the circuit easily

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