Chipping a Fiat Ducato engine

[MitchandJenny]

Anyone done it ?
I hear stories of better mpg AND better power delivery, which as an ex vehicle tech
seems hard to believe.
Mitch

 

[Paul.L]

<Broken link removed>

 

[Stealaway]

Anyone done it ?
I hear stories of better mpg AND better power delivery, which as an ex vehicle tech
seems hard to believe.
Mitch

You should know - tha dunt get owt for nowt.
More power has to cost more fuel - no matter what the blurb says.
I think the factory would have found the optimum compromise

 

[MitchandJenny]

Agreed all mapping is a compromise just interested.
Modern tech often surprises me.
Someone will have done it.
Mitch

 

[acropolis22]

Anyone done it ?
I hear stories of better mpg AND better power delivery, which as an ex vehicle tech
seems hard to believe.
Mitch

Do you mean chipping or remapping?

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[MitchandJenny]

Remapping mate.

 

[PaulC70]

Im on day 11 of a trip in scotland and had my Peugeot Boxer based motorhome (Bailey) remapped the week before. It's bloody brilliant! Better power, better on the hills, better acceleration etc, less shifting down etc so easier on my knees. This is on the 2.0 HDi engine. Worth every penny!

 

[TerryL]

Had my 2.3 multijet (07 reg) remapped last year. Been watching the fuel consumption (I keep detailed records) and over the last year I've seen at the very best a 5% improvement in fuel consumption, which actually doesn't equate to much. However it now drives like a dream, smooth with more torque and, except for the steeper hills, no need to keep changing gears all the time. This is with trying to keep to the same techniques I've used for years rather than being tempted to "use" the extra oomph.

 

[DDJC]

Got a 2018 150hp 2.3 Ducato engine on a comfortmatic box for a 3.5t van. I've read opinions on this forum that said that more recent engines are mapped for a manual box, so a comfortmatic never really gets the best out of a the engine. The suggestion was that remapping can improve power or fuel economy. The 150hp engine is plenty powerful enough, and I never go above 70mph, so I'm wondering whether anyone has remapped for fuel economy only?

And, most importantly, who did you get to do it, and how much did it cost?
Any pitfalls?

 

[IRHP]

Got a 2018 150hp 2.3 Ducato engine on a comfortmatic box for a 3.5t van. I've read opinions on this forum that said that more recent engines are mapped for a manual box, so a comfortmatic never really gets the best out of a the engine. The suggestion was that remapping can improve power or fuel economy. The 150hp engine is plenty powerful enough, and I never go above 70mph, so I'm wondering whether anyone has remapped for fuel economy only?

And, most importantly, who did you get to do it, and how much did it cost?
Any pitfalls?

I asked a local guy who does a lot of remapping and is an approved Viezu dealer. When I told him mine was a comfortmatic he said best left as it is. I don't know whether he is right or wrong but I trust him.

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[martin2603]

I’ve had one 3.00 2008 Ducato remapped by Quantum Tuning. Much more power and from 19 to 24.5 mpg. Now about to get the 2017 2.3 180. (177). Remapped also by Quantum tuning. It will give 200 hp and 20 per cent more torque. They claim up to 12per cent better fuel consumption. The only reason for the current remap is the loss of power when the MH sees a slight incline. Although bottom end pulling awAy and acceleration is quite good the mid range is utterly lacking and you need to keep the engine revving above 2200 to maintain any speed . I am forever being overtaken by trucks on hills!! Basically it is MH belief that the gear box ratios are wrong for the bigger 5 ton Ducatos . Will report on due course .

 

[Feltwell]

I had my '06 X244 2.8JTD remapped - the guy sat next to me with his laptop on the test drive and turned the map off and on. There was a very noticeable difference - definitely torquier with the map, which was designed as a compromise between performance and economy. That was 8 years ago, no problems since. I'd get it done again on a future van without hesitation.

 

[GAVLAD]

I was seriously looking at remapping mine as the garage I used owned a similar base vehicle Motorhome and he raved about the extra power and economy.
However, on speaking with another mechanic, they advised me against it as it brings additional wear on the clutch and creates wear on over working the engine by not changing down gears when going up hills.
Garage owner said the Fiat lowered the power range on the engine and there’s enough in it to raise that through a remap.
Mechanic told me that if Fiat wanted the engine to produce more power and economy they would have developed and sold the engine in a production state to do so and therefore to leave it as is.
Not much help to the OP but two opposite opinions from two garages that I have used to look after my Motorhome.
In the end, I decided to stick to its original state.
I’m not driving it everyday and for the less than 4k miles I do annually, I will put up with the power and economy I have got.

 

[dulvil]

I have the fiat 150 with comfortmatic but it struggles to move off on a gradient even
with throttle on the floor.Does remappinghelp this?

 

[GAVLAD]

I have the fiat 150 with comfortmatic but it struggles to move off on a gradient eve with throttle o the floor.Does remappinghelp this?

Is that because it’s front wheel drive and you’re loaded up at the rear though?

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[Landy Andy]

I have the fiat 150 with comfortmatic but it struggles to move off on a gradient even
with throttle on the floor.Does remappinghelp this?

Yes if it is due to not having enough uuummmppphhh. Remap will give you more torque which is what you need to pull away.

 

[Pausim]

Some say remapping increases NOX and particulate emissions putting more load on the DPF and the environment.

 

[Landy Andy]

In perfect conditions possible. But is it better than being in a too high gear, and not bothering to change down a gear, so labouring the engine. If I do that on mine it get plenty of black smoke out of it.

 

[mofurt]

There are a couple of other factors to consider in a remap, not just power, economy and longevity, which could affect the tune that the manufactures put on. There are also emissions and taxation, for example.

I'm not getting preachy over emissions, but manufacturers design their vehicles so that all vehicles off the line will comfortably pass the tests without needing individual tweaking. Changing the tuning could raise emissions and make some fall outside the permitted range - if you weren't interested in cars particularly, you'd find it really annoying to have your car constantly borderline on MOT tests, you want an easy pass. There are also other emissions related things, such as (especially noticeable on some motorbikes) the injectors being shut off on the overrun. That can make it a little jerky when you start fuelling again. So getting rid of some of the generalised emissions tuning can make the vehicle more driveable, but you'll need your tuner to check what you are now throwing out.

In some areas, taxation is related to power output. That's why, for example, there are some strange low power engine combinations that you'd never choose but traditionally saved a load of tax money in Denmark.

 

[Widge]

Hi,

We have a 2002 2.0 JTD Ducato that we bought earlier this year, the previous owner had already bought a ChipPower CR1 to fit to the camper, but due to illness etc never fitted it.

We knew when we bought the camper that the 2.0 JTD was not the quickest of motors, but thought that it would be fine for us. So far have not really used the camper much but intending to head to Spain in October (we Currently live in France about 90 minutes from the border), my plan was to use it for a while then install the kit and see how much difference it made, but as there is a current discussion I thought that I would pose my questions now.

Has anyone had experience with chipping this engine?
Has anyone had experience with the ChipPower kits?
What possible long term effects might using a chip like this have on the engine?
Lastly, what is the insurance consequences of using upgrades like this, is it classed as an unofficial modification to the vehicle with the possibility of the insurance being void in the case of an accident, I realise that you probably won't be able to answer the last question properly as I am in France, but what do UK insurances say about doing this?

I know that the French are very hot on modifications, in fact it is one of the reasons that we didn't keep our old 1981 Transit camper, it was very underpowered, in the UK it is common practice to install the engine and gearbox from a later transit, but that is a no no here in France, a vehicle has to be as per factory spec.

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[acropolis22]

Hi,

We have a 2002 2.0 JTD Ducato that we bought earlier this year, the previous owner had already bought a ChipPower CR1 to fit to the camper, but due to illness etc never fitted it.

We knew when we bought the camper that the 2.0 JTD was not the quickest of motors, but thought that it would be fine for us. So far have not really used the camper much but intending to head to Spain in October (we Currently live in France about 90 minutes from the border), my plan was to use it for a while then install the kit and see how much difference it made, but as there is a current discussion I thought that I would pose my questions now.

Has anyone had experience with chipping this engine?
Has anyone had experience with the ChipPower kits?
What possible long term effects might using a chip like this have on the engine?
Lastly, what is the insurance consequences of using upgrades like this, is it classed as an unofficial modification to the vehicle with the possibility of the insurance being void in the case of an accident, I realise that you probably won't be able to answer the last question properly as I am in France, but what do UK insurances say about doing this?

I know that the French are very hot on modifications, in fact it is one of the reasons that we didn't keep our old 1981 Transit camper, it was very underpowered, in the UK it is common practice to install the engine and gearbox from a later transit, but that is a no no here in France, a vehicle has to be as per factory spec.

We're with Comfort Insurance, (Aviva), who confirmed in writing that a remap would have no effect on our insurance. I don't think many of us can give useful information about the situation in France. Also a remap is not the same as fitting a new chip.

 

[DDJC]

There are a couple of other factors to consider in a remap, not just power, economy and longevity, which could affect the tune that the manufactures put on. There are also emissions and taxation, for example.

I'm not getting preachy over emissions, but manufacturers design their vehicles so that all vehicles off the line will comfortably pass the tests without needing individual tweaking. Changing the tuning could raise emissions and make some fall outside the permitted range - if you weren't interested in cars particularly, you'd find it really annoying to have your car constantly borderline on MOT tests, you want an easy pass. There are also other emissions related things, such as (especially noticeable on some motorbikes) the injectors being shut off on the overrun. That can make it a little jerky when you start fuelling again. So getting rid of some of the generalised emissions tuning can make the vehicle more driveable, but you'll need your tuner to check what you are now throwing out.

In some areas, taxation is related to power output. That's why, for example, there are some strange low power engine combinations that you'd never choose but traditionally saved a load of tax money in Denmark.

I was seriously looking at remapping mine as the garage I used owned a similar base vehicle Motorhome and he raved about the extra power and economy.
However, on speaking with another mechanic, they advised me against it as it brings additional wear on the clutch and creates wear on over working the engine by not changing down gears when going up hills.
Garage owner said the Fiat lowered the power range on the engine and there’s enough in it to raise that through a remap.
Mechanic told me that if Fiat wanted the engine to produce more power and economy they would have developed and sold the engine in a production state to do so and therefore to leave it as is.
Not much help to the OP but two opposite opinions from two garages that I have used to look after my Motorhome.
In the end, I decided to stick to its original state.
I’m not driving it everyday and for the less than 4k miles I do annually, I will put up with the power and economy I have got.

Interesting points of view, thanks.

I'd not want to add extra emissions to the atmosphere and would definitely not want to fail an MOT on emissions.
My150hp comfortmatic bus pulls away just fine, even with a 500kg trailer so I don't need extra torque.
The fastest I have ever gone (overtaking) was a tad over 70 and usual motorway cruising speed is about 62mph (100kph), so I don't need extra speed.

What I am interested in, is an increase in MPG. Can remapping improve fuel economy without increasing speed, torque or emissions?

 

[tonyidle]

Interesting points of view, thanks.

I'd not want to add extra emissions to the atmosphere and would definitely not want to fail an MOT on emissions.
My150hp comfortmatic bus pulls away just fine, even with a 500kg trailer so I don't need extra torque.
The fastest I have ever gone (overtaking) was a tad over 70 and usual motorway cruising speed is about 62mph (100kph), so I don't need extra speed.

What I am interested in, is an increase in MPG. Can remapping improve fuel economy without increasing speed, torque or emissions?

I had my Merc V6 dragging 5.4T + trailer done by Quantum (retune not chip). The increase in torque improves economy by reducing gear changes. Time will tell but I'm very happy so far. I went for their 'middle' option. The van is very noticeably more powerful in general although it wasn't lacking pre-tuning.

 

[Widge]

We're with Comfort Insurance, (Aviva), who confirmed in writing that a remap would have no effect on our insurance. I don't think many of us can give useful information about the situation in France. Also a remap is not the same as fitting a new chip.

Hi, thanks for the reply, i presume that you are talking about Aviva in the UK, I ask as they are also widespread here in France.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

I had a Vw T4 with 188,000 miles on the clock remapped.
It was a 1999 van with a whopping 88bhp from the factory. Using a tried and tested path, I added an intercooler and changed the injectors then had it remapped on a rolling road. The result was a conservative 132bhp because I asked him to aim more for economy than out and out power. It drove beautifully up until 225.000 when a silly old lady crashed in to the back of it at 30mph while I was opening the drivers door. The MPG was massively better.
There is a 102bhp T4 model with intercooler and different injectors from factory, and there is also a much rarer (possibly only available in Germany) 150bhp model. So I'm not convinced by all the talk of "if it was meant to have that much power the manufacturer would have done it"
The 2.3 and 3.0 Fiat engines come in many different power outputs already, they are also for many different purposes, but basically van chassis that may deliver feather pillows or concrete.
It would be interesting to discover if the lowest power model has the same clutch as the highest power model for instance, not hard to find a reg number from a for sale add and stick it in GSF or Europarts websites for different models and see.
From my VW experiences I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, you don't drive motorhomes foot to the floor all the time, the extra power, and more importantly, torque are completely at your discretion with the accelerator pedal.

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[Widge]

Hi,

We have a 2002 2.0 JTD Ducato that we bought earlier this year, the previous owner had already bought a ChipPower CR1 to fit to the camper, but due to illness etc never fitted it.

We knew when we bought the camper that the 2.0 JTD was not the quickest of motors, but thought that it would be fine for us. So far have not really used the camper much but intending to head to Spain in October (we Currently live in France about 90 minutes from the border), my plan was to use it for a while then install the kit and see how much difference it made, but as there is a current discussion I thought that I would pose my questions now.

Has anyone had experience with chipping this engine?
Has anyone had experience with the ChipPower kits?
What possible long term effects might using a chip like this have on the engine?
Lastly, what is the insurance consequences of using upgrades like this, is it classed as an unofficial modification to the vehicle with the possibility of the insurance being void in the case of an accident, I realise that you probably won't be able to answer the last question properly as I am in France, but what do UK insurances say about doing this?

I know that the French are very hot on modifications, in fact it is one of the reasons that we didn't keep our old 1981 Transit camper, it was very underpowered, in the UK it is common practice to install the engine and gearbox from a later transit, but that is a no no here in France, a vehicle has to be as per factory spec.

Out of interest I wrote to chippower and asked what using the kit give me, and also posed the insurance question, this was their reply.


Hi there,

Thank you for your message.

The features of the chip CR1:
Average power increase 15% – 20%
Improved fuel economy up to 10%
Definitely better acceleration.
Easier acceleration throughout the rev range, also in the higher gears.
Eliminated flat spots and turbo lag - thanks to this, car accelerates well in the lower rpm range.
Does not void your insurance as it is completely undetectable if removed before a service.
After dismounting, factory settings are restored.
Does not cause excessive smoking.
Quick, 5-10 minute installation. Plug & Drive - original plugs.

 

[Pausim]

Out of interest I wrote to chippower and asked what using the kit give me, and also posed the insurance question, this was their reply.


Hi there,

Thank you for your message.

The features of the chip CR1:
Average power increase 15% – 20%
Improved fuel economy up to 10%
Definitely better acceleration.
Easier acceleration throughout the rev range, also in the higher gears.
Eliminated flat spots and turbo lag - thanks to this, car accelerates well in the lower rpm range.
Does not void your insurance as it is completely undetectable if removed before a service.
After dismounting, factory settings are restored.
Does not cause excessive smoking.
Quick, 5-10 minute installation. Plug & Drive - original plugs.

It is sometimes what they don’t say that matters and whether it is sales puff rather engineering information. I am always suspicious of any claims that say “up to”, that could mean 0.001% or anything else less than 10%.

 

[Widge]

It is sometimes what they don’t say that matters and whether it is sales puff rather engineering information. I am always suspicious of any claims that say “up to”, that could mean 0.001% or anything else less than 10%.

I know what you mean, but in my case I already have the kit as it came unopened with the camper so there will be no outlay to try it out, but not over impressed with the insurance statement.

 

[dna]

Does not void your insurance as it is completely undetectable if removed before a service.

hmmmmmmmm - why would this be a benefit - does it infer you should always carry the original chip and swap it if involved in an incident?

 

[Widge]

It is an addon box that plugs in to the wiring, so simple to remove, and I am sure the police would be more than accommodating to let you remove it just after you have been involved in a fatal accident and before the tow truck carts your vehicle away.

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