Cheap Lithium set up , what else do I need ?

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

I’ve purchased a budget lithium battery and I am looking at the best way to set it up .
The battery is marketed as a “drop in “ replacement for my led acid leisure battery .
We do mostly use EHU pitches but would like to be able to off grid camp for a couple of nights at rallies etc . What else do I need to set this up?
I was thinking of just charging the lithium battery via the mains charger that comes with it before we set off and then just running the inverter direct from the lithium and leaving the leisure battery to do the lights , flush , 12v tv etc when off grid .
Any thoughts please ?

solaris · Mar 26, 2021

Am I reading this right? You’re not changing either of your original batteries but using the lithium as a stand alone power for your inverter. If so that’s like camping a few decades ago when you used an old battery as a power pack. You’re just doing it with a better, more expensive battery. Would have thought it would be fine for as you described and you recharge back at home. There’s others here who can give more technical input no doubt

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

solaris said:
Am I reading this right? You’re not changing either of your original batteries but using the lithium as a stand alone power for your inverter. If so that’s like camping a few decades ago when you used an old battery as a power pack. You’re just doing it with a better, more expensive battery. Would have thought it would be fine for as you described and you recharge back at home. There’s others here who can give more technical input no doubt

Looking for ideas really . I can replace the lithium and ditch the led acid leisure battery . I have space for one battery in a single under floor battery box and could just swap the batteries . Since we don’t do much off grid ( at the moment) I thought I would use the led acid for the basics and the lithium as a kind of back up connected to the inverter for charging phones , laptops , vape batteries etc .
I don’t think I have an idea what I am doing really

Tombola · Mar 26, 2021

yeah that will be fine as long as you monitor the voltage.

And if push comes to shove you could even part wire it to your vans charging system via a switch over, or even just straight swap it on site wth your LA ones depending on the power of your on borad charger if yu wanted to give it a blast.

edit, having just read your other post, just whizz out the Leads and drop in the lithium, what charger do you have on board and monitoring system

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

Hi Tombola .
My 2006 motorhome won’t have the proper charger for lithium I wouldn’t have thought . I am worried it may damage the lithium battery if I use the wrong charger ?

orridge · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
Hi Tombola .
My 2006 motorhome won’t have the proper charger for lithium I wouldn’t have thought . I am worried it may damage the lithium battery if I use the wrong charger ?

Doesn't the battery have a built-in management system that controls it not the profile from the battery charger which is why they are considered (within reason) a drop-in replacement for SLA batteries.

Tombola · Mar 26, 2021

Doubtul, lithiums dont need a float charge so as long as its a decent amp charger you should be good. (not 3 stage)
they dont like so much being left plugged in on float they like to be charged and discharged.
BUT ...
you have a charger that came with it too so when on EHU you can just use that if you needed too.

Id tend to do the opposite, Id replace the leads with the lithium and have my leads as backup JUST in case. I think youll soon find you can leave the leads at home.

take a look into what amps your on board charger puts out, if it can do 10-15 amp or more then its fine.
have you got Solar atm Swifter ?

poppycamper · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
Hi Tombola .
My 2006 motorhome won’t have the proper charger for lithium I wouldn’t have thought . I am worried it may damage the lithium battery if I use the wrong charger ?

I have a similar set up which has done me proad for two years now...
I very rarely use EHU and as you say rely on stand alone battery charger before leaving home and then rely on solar to top up battery
My fitted charger does not do lithium and it is ALWAYS turned of, I also do not have a B2B.
If solar not enough ( has not happened yet) I would go to site and use stand alone charger to fully charge battery.

Edit.. .
Just checked battery manual and it says a non lithium set up on van charger would be perfectly adequate.... I still however prepare to use battery specific charger.

Tombola · Mar 26, 2021

poppycamper said:
My fitted charger does not do lithium and it is ALWAYS turned of, I also do not have a B2B.

Whats the problem Poppycamper is it a 3 stage charger

poppycamper · Mar 26, 2021

Tombola said:
Whats the problem Poppycamper is it a 3 stage charger

No.. just a bog standard EC155.
But as I edited above it is indeed suitable for my lithium but won't fully charge it which with lithiums is a good thing.
My phobia with basic chargers hark back to my tugging days when chargers fitted were really substandard chargers and the only way to fully charge lead batteries was a stand alone smart charger.

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

Thanks for the input guys . I need to have a good read over this thread and have real think about what’s best . I would like it replace the standard leisure battery with the lithium and “ forget about it “ but I just think for the few occasions we will be away then it may be better to keep the standard leisure battery in place for the basics. Then I could use the lithium battery wired straight to the inverter and extension lead to run what we need on a separate system.

busbuddy · Mar 26, 2021

What are you using 'off grid'?
I have one 160w solar panel, 2 lead acid leisure batteries and a 1500w inverter
We can do 10 days without hookup in the uk september weather, probably last a lot longer but race meeting is finished

cmcardle75 · Mar 26, 2021

Tombola said:
Whats the problem Poppycamper is it a 3 stage charger

To be fair, a two stage charger works better for Lithium!

poppycamper · Mar 26, 2021

cmcardle75 said:
To be fair, a two stage charger works better for Lithium!

Yes agreed... but if I did need to retreat to a site (as i said never happened yet) then that would mean that my batteries would be well down so let's say for example needing 200ah's then with an EC155 which only gives out 12amps max (if not using anything else in van) would take around 20 hrs to charge.
My stand alone 40amp charger would do same job on 5hrs.

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

busbuddy said:
What are you using 'off grid'?
I have one 160w solar panel, 2 lead acid leisure batteries and a 1500w inverter
We can do 10 days without hookup in the uk september weather, probably last a lot longer but race meeting is finished

In our case it’s slightly weird what we need to power and charge . One of my son’s who is autistic will expect his iPad to be charged and often uses it while it is charging so I have to make sure I have back up to sort that . He has no concept of how charging works and just expects it to be ready when he wants to use it

.Also 2 other kids with iPads and I use a vape device that needs charging a few times .
It’s important to make sure I have enough power to make these things work when at rallies etc .

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

Out of interest what voltage is fully charged ?
It’s been on for a few hours now .
Does it stop at 14v?

Langtoftlad · Mar 26, 2021

The term "cheap" always worries me...

poppycamper · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
Out of interest what voltage is fully charged ?
It’s been on for a few hours now .
Does it stop at 14v?
View attachment 477545

My lithium is fully charged at 14.4v

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

Langtoftlad said:
The term "cheap" always worries me...

I looked at other options . Nearly £700 for the 100ah . I took a chance , I hope it works out lol

. It’s more “ budget” than cheap

cmcardle75 · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
Out of interest what voltage is fully charged ?
It’s been on for a few hours now .
Does it stop at 14v?
View attachment 477545

The nature of the chemistry make it difficult to determine state of charge from a simple voltage measurement. That's one of the reasons the battery needs a Battery Management System. The charger needs to charge at constant current until the voltage gets to a certain level. Then it charges at that voltage for a period. Then the BMS assumes it is 100%. For anything else, it measures the current in and out to determine the likely state of charge. You can't put a meter across and hope to tell how much energy it is storing.

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

cmcardle75 said:
The nature of the chemistry make it difficult to determine state of charge from a simple voltage measurement. That's one of the reasons the battery needs a Battery Management System. The charger needs to charge at constant current until the voltage gets to a certain level. Then it charges at that voltage for a period. Then the BMS assumes it is 100%. For anything else, it measures the current in and out to determine the likely state of charge. You can't put a meter across and hope to tell how much energy it is storing.

Lol I did say I have no idea what I am doing

. I spotted the voltage was slowly increasingly presumed it was because it was charging

busbuddy · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
In our case it’s slightly weird what we need to power and charge . One of my son’s who is autistic will expect his iPad to be charged and often uses it while it is charging so I have to make sure I have back up to sort that . He has no concept of how charging works and just expects it to be ready when he wants to use it .Also 2 other kids with iPads and I use a vape device that needs charging a few times .
It’s important to make sure I have enough power to make these things work when at rallies etc .

Have you tried to hammer the batteries whilst at home, charging everything you can plug in and drying your hair to see how much you use
Are your apple items powered by 12 or 240v

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

busbuddy said:
Have you tried to hammer the batteries whilst at home, charging everything you can plug in and drying your hair to see how much you use
Are your apple items powered by 12 or 240v

12V via 240v power adaptors so not the most efficient use .
Just been looking at this

Heavy Duty Battery Box - For 1 or 2 Batteries - Float Your Boat

Large, heavy duty battery box. For 120-200 Amp batteries Available in two sizes to take 1 or 2 batteries.

www.floatyourboat.co.uk

. I could wire the inverter and also have a 12v usb charger for iPads which is more efficient

poppycamper · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
12V via 240v power adaptors so not the most efficient use .
Just been looking at this

Heavy Duty Battery Box - For 1 or 2 Batteries - Float Your Boat

Large, heavy duty battery box. For 120-200 Amp batteries Available in two sizes to take 1 or 2 batteries.

www.floatyourboat.co.uk

. I could wire the inverter and also have a 12v usb charger for iPads which is more efficient

Confusing me now... that is just a box.... you still need battery and dont you already have 12v sockets and usb in van ????

Swifter · Mar 26, 2021

poppycamper said:
Confusing me now... that is just a box.... you still need battery and dont you already have 12v sockets and usb in van ????

Lol I am confusing myself I think

.
The set up would be a standard lead acid leisure battery in place in the single underfloor battery compartment . This would power the hab lights , toilet flush etc . Then for rallies I would have my lithium battery wired up to my inverter and use that for charging/powering things like , hair dryer, iPads etc . The main lead acid leisure battery does have a 12v input in the hab area . The problem is the high use of battery to recharge iPads ,iPhones and vape batteries . The lithium battery would be fitted into the “ box “ and still be wired directly to the inverter BUT it also has 12v usb inputs making a more efficient charge of the 12v Apple iPads

Tombola · Mar 26, 2021

Swifter said:
Lol I am confusing myself I think .

Yeah I think we are all over confusing you. Look, as poppycamper said if you use it how you planned then it will work just fine. Its just we see it as you not getting your full easiest use.
Do as your original plan, it will all soon find its level.

oh

Cheap doesnt worry me if it works it works.

Eggs · Mar 26, 2021

More to the point Swifter how do you keep a test meter that clean?, mine looks like it's been under the hedge where grey waste goes

Rob Turner · Mar 27, 2021

Some research before you purchased the most expensive part of the project wouldn’t have gone a miss.

Swifter · Mar 27, 2021

Rob Turner said:
Some research before you purchased the most expensive part of the project wouldn’t have gone a miss.

It was a bargain so I thought it best to grab the main component while it was so cheap . I already have an inverter and it came with a Charger so I ca be run it straight away

IanRJ · Mar 27, 2021

Rob Turner said:
Some research before you purchased the most expensive part of the project wouldn’t have gone a miss.

Do you have an issue with the Ultramax Battery Rob?

Be good to learn if these batteries are problematic. I believe several Funsters have them and find them to be fine!

Cheap Lithium set up , what else do I need ?

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