Changing Drive Shaft Oil Seal on Fiat Ducato 2012

[OldAgeTravellers]

Had a clutch change last year and have just found that there is an oil leak from the left hand drive-shaft to gearbox oil seal. It has been standing since February so no idea how long it has been leaking or how much oil I have lost.
Anybody done this job, what’s it like. I suspect a total strip-down of the hub bearings etc. So I wonder if I will have the correct tools. I understand the hub nut has a very high tightening torque.
It is a Fiat Ducato 2.3 2012 “A-class” Hymer.

 

[Landy Andy]

If you want to change the gearbox outlet seal you don’t need to undo the hub nut. You need to undo the lower Aframe ball joint, and then push down the A frame to release the ball joint. This is the hard part. Physically. Then once this is off you can pull the hub assembly outward and away from the gearbox. That will pull the drive shaft out from gearbox. Drain your gearbox before this, otherwise you will have a considerable amount of oil escape. Then change the seal, which on the left is simple as it’s an assembly complete in bolt on flange. A bit of sealer around the flange before bolting in place. Then refit. Adding 3 litres of new gearbox oil via the gearbox vent on the top of the gearbox.

 

[L' Hobo]

I have always found that, whenever the clutch is replaced, so are these seals on BOTH the driveshafts.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

If you want to change the gearbox outlet seal you don’t need to undo the hub nut. You need to undo the lower Aframe ball joint, and then push down the A frame to release the ball joint. This is the hard part. Physically. Then once this is off you can pull the hub assembly outward and away from the gearbox. That will pull the drive shaft out from gearbox. Drain your gearbox before this, otherwise you will have a considerable amount of oil escape. Then change the seal, which on the left is simple as it’s an assembly complete in bolt on flange. A bit of sealer around the flange before bolting in place. Then refit. Adding 3 litres of new gearbox oil via the gearbox vent on the top of the gearbox.

Thanks for this, that puts my mind at rest a bit, my torque wrench certainly does not go up to 450NM and I don't have a long breaker bar or perhaps the strength!

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

I have always found that, whenever the clutch is replaced, so are these seals on BOTH the driveshafts.

Yes, I would have thought that they would have changed them, or perhaps they knicked them when assembling. The clutch failed in Germany, and they seemed to be a very thorough family business, not a money-grabbing main dealer. The MOT guy who gave me an advisory yesterday said not to be too hard on them, it was very easy to do.

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Another question for the wise, if I may. While doing the Oil Seal on the gearbox, I will be changing the Disks, which also had an Advisory for minor pitting. But, comparing Euro Car Parts, Autodoc and Opie, there is such a range. Bosch are obviously good but of course the most expensive there is also Brembo, a bit cheaper, then Stark, Ridex, Apex Blue Print etc. Also the same for pads. Bosch is obviously good but I have also heard good things about Brembo which are about £43 rather than £50. Obviously Brakes are important so quality matters but the Big names are not always the best.
Any thoughts?

 

[ivorantony]

Personally I would stick with a known brand, Delphi/ ATE/ Ferodo/ Bosch and so forth,
Been in the trade 50 years and basically you pay for quality and performance that you don’t want to find it lacking going down a mountain pass,

 

[Landy Andy]

Another question for the wise, if I may. While doing the Oil Seal on the gearbox, I will be changing the Disks, which also had an Advisory for minor pitting. But, comparing Euro Car Parts, Autodoc and Opie, there is such a range. Bosch are obviously good but of course the most expensive there is also Brembo, a bit cheaper, then Stark, Ridex, Apex Blue Print etc. Also the same for pads. Bosch is obviously good but I have also heard good things about Brembo which are about £43 rather than £50. Obviously Brakes are important so quality matters but the Big names are not always the best.
Any thoughts?

How recently had the van been fully used before the MOT. Minor pitting on a vehicle that isn’t used much isn’t surprising. A good holiday of a few thousand miles, and they may loose that “minor pitting”

 

[gus-lopez]

Thanks for this, that puts my mind at rest a bit, my torque wrench certainly does not go up to 450NM and I don't have a long breaker bar or perhaps the strength!

Correct socket,breaker bar then slip a scaffold pole ,at least 6 feet long,over the bar right to the socket .undoes easily but make sure the wheel is on the ground .

 

[SVMC15]

Another question for the wise, if I may. While doing the Oil Seal on the gearbox, I will be changing the Disks, which also had an Advisory for minor pitting. But, comparing Euro Car Parts, Autodoc and Opie, there is such a range. Bosch are obviously good but of course the most expensive there is also Brembo, a bit cheaper, then Stark, Ridex, Apex Blue Print etc. Also the same for pads. Bosch is obviously good but I have also heard good things about Brembo which are about £43 rather than £50. Obviously Brakes are important so quality matters but the Big names are not always the best.
Any thoughts?

The original equipment I took off my 2013 were Brembo. I replaced with the same from autodoc.

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[SVMC15]

These were the front discs and pads I used if it's any help.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

If you want to change the gearbox outlet seal you don’t need to undo the hub nut. You need to undo the lower Aframe ball joint, and then push down the A frame to release the ball joint. This is the hard part. Physically. Then once this is off you can pull the hub assembly outward and away from the gearbox. That will pull the drive shaft out from gearbox. Drain your gearbox before this, otherwise you will have a considerable amount of oil escape. Then change the seal, which on the left is simple as it’s an assembly complete in bolt on flange. A bit of sealer around the flange before bolting in place. Then refit. Adding 3 litres of new gearbox oil via the gearbox vent on the top of the gearbox.

Hi Landy Andy how does the hub swing out when connected to the suspension?

 

[Googlebot]

Hi Landy Andy how does the hub swing out when connected to the suspension?View attachment 1067689

The lower ball joint you see at the bottom, undo that nut. Hammer the ball joint to separate being careful of the seal.

Use a long bar and preferably an assistant and push down on the lower arm until you can release the ball joint.

It helps loosening the anti roll bar link to the last threads.

It is heavy and a pain to get out, much easier with an assistant.

Landy Andy is spot on, a gearbox refill however is 2.7 litres I believe and not 3. You will need to remove the air box to refill easily.

You might find some of the pictures on the thread in my signature helpful from when I changed the clutch.

Now that’s a lot of parts!

Will be commencing operation sort the van out next week. I have a full service to do, including all filters. In addition, the radiator I fitted 3 years ago appears to be leaking again which is frustrating so that’s being changed. Both front shock absorbers were advisories on the last MOT...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Also, this video has all the steps.

 

[dunnah01]

It may be easier to release the 3 bolts holding the balljoints to the hub carrier if you can access the bolt heads. Lower balljoints are a real PITA and often the boot gets destroyed in frustration anyway when removing.

 

[Landy Andy]

Hi Landy Andy how does the hub swing out when connected to the suspension?View attachment 1067689

Undo the nut on the bottom ball joint, leave nut on by a couple of threads. Then shove bar across top of wishbone (front across to back) into the hole in chassis where lower wishbone attaches. Push hard down on bar a give the lower wishbone and really good hard smack with good hammer, and joint will pop. Then remove nut and force lower wishbone down. This is physically hard, and made easier by slackening the anti roll bar off if you find it too difficult (easier with two people). Then just pull entire hub assembly outward, away from gear box and the driveshaft will pop out of the gearbox. Having drained of oil first

And refilling I use the full 3 litres, and never needed to remove anything to get to breather fill point. Just reach in pull cap off. Insert funnel slowly pour in 3 litres of oil, remembering that the gearbox will want to breath/burb as you fill, so don’t fill funnel too quick.

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[Landy Andy]

Undo blue
Push down yellow
Hit HARD red
Remove blue
Push down yellow and release
If too difficult loosen green.
Then pull entire hub assembly out away from vehicle.

 

[jockaneezer]

I got my ball joints split ok, but struggled to get enough "free space" between the upper and lower wishbones. My neighbour saw me struggling and borrowed one of these off his mate, which made all the difference.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks Landy Andy & Googlebot , fantastic explanation and fantastic video Googlebot, I wish I could work that fast! I got the Brakes and disk off today, then unfortunately, rain stopped play, I got drenched. Hopefully tomorrow will be better and I can get the shaft off and get the bits ordered on Monday morning. I measured the disk as 298mm x 29mm but the nearest in Autodoc is 300 x 32 so will have to measure a bit more accurately. Or see if I can find a serial number on the disk.
It was after a very long trip that I first saw the pitting and it was in continuous wiggly lines that looked a bit like stress cracks. They have done 130,000 km stopping over 4.5 tonne, so I don't mind changing them.
I really appreciate the help everyone has given.
I really must get a power wrench though, the large hex drive screws were a nightmare because of the sticky thread lock but a bit of heat finally helped. Do replacements come with the disk or need to be ordered seperately?

 

[Googlebot]

On mine there were no new bolts.

I did put some thread lock on the old ones though after cleaning them.

 

[Sue and Rick]

I would check the gaiter on the drive shaft for spilts too. Maybe even renew as you can get to it.

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[OldAgeTravellers]

View attachment 1067403
These were the front discs and pads I used if it's any help.

Mine are slightly bigger than those, Hymer must have ordered upgraded components as was plated way over the original Fiat spec which I have uprated even more so I am thankful for the bigger brakes.

 

[SVMC15]

Mine are slightly bigger than those, Hymer must have ordered upgraded components as was plated way over the original Fiat spec which I have uprated even more so I am thankful for the bigger brakes.

Yes I should have said, I have 15 inch wheels and am 3500kg.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Had a nightmare ordering the parts until I managed to get the OEM part numbers by ringing somebody up who kindly gave them to me using the VIN number even though they didn't have them in stock. Autodoc etc didn't show them to me because they were not usual fitments for my vehicle. Presumably, Hymer specified heavy-duty components. Does anybody know how to access Fiat's database? Once I had the OEM numbers, they came straight up on a search.

 

[Landy Andy]

Had a nightmare ordering the parts until I managed to get the OEM part numbers by ringing somebody up who kindly gave them to me using the VIN number even though they didn't have them in stock. Autodoc etc didn't show them to me because they were not usual fitments for my vehicle. Presumably, Hymer specified heavy-duty components. Does anybody know how to access Fiat's database? Once I had the OEM numbers, they came straight up on a search.

Personally I order my van parts from Coastal Motorhomes who have access to the Fiat database, they no exactly what is required, I get it next day, I get a discount because I’m a member here.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Personally I order my van parts from Coastal Motorhomes who have access to the Fiat database, they no exactly what is required, I get it next day, I get a discount because I’m a member here.

Coastal only had disks by Fast, which I hadn't heard of, and I wanted Brembo the same as the originals, which had lasted so well. I didn't realise they did a discount for Fun Members. Unfortunately, I used Autodoc for the first time as they had everything I wanted, but unfortunately, they haven't even processed the order 24 hours later, and then they say three days for delivery. So I will be lucky to get it by the weekend. So I will try coastal next time.

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[L' Hobo]

Coastal only had disks by Fast, which I hadn't heard of, and I wanted Brembo the same as the originals, which had lasted so well. I didn't realise they did a discount for Fun Members. Unfortunately, I used Autodoc for the first time as they had everything I wanted, but unfortunately, they haven't even processed the order 24 hours later, and then they say three days for delivery. So I will be lucky to get it by the weekend. So I will try coastal next time.

No, I've dealt with Coastal a lot and I didn't know we had a discount. is it worth the enquiry?

I have always found them very helpful, perhaps you should have asked about Brembo?

 

[Landy Andy]

Coastal only had disks by Fast, which I hadn't heard of, and I wanted Brembo the same as the originals, which had lasted so well. I didn't realise they did a discount for Fun Members. Unfortunately, I used Autodoc for the first time as they had everything I wanted, but unfortunately, they haven't even processed the order 24 hours later, and then they say three days for delivery. So I will be lucky to get it by the weekend. So I will try coastal next time.

Fast stuff has been about for a long time, but I too prefer the big brands. Unfortunately the big brands such as Brembo or the like aren’t the quality you’d expect. Coastal will do Fiat discs I’d assume, but the price would be high. Talking to Coastal, I have found them very honest about what brand they recommend.

They have very much looked after me with my parts, even during emergency times, and bent over backward to help me. So I respect that and give them my business.