Challans, Vendée Aire is now Camping Car Park .. (1 Viewer)

[MisterB]

Well not quite as the Camping Car Parking is a couple of minutes away (follow signs for the Gendarmary)
Looks to be nicely laid out though, the old Aire has height restrictions on it now, but not sure if they are permanent.
Lots of motorhomes parked up in the large car parks opposite the 'old' Aire, not sure if they are overnighting though.

 

[dawsey]

We wandered around France for months seeing this sort of thing, many of the little communities have decided that they are no longer willing to subsidise and run the old camping municipals and free aires, so they seem to slowly be turning into these sorts of ‘Camping car park’ operations. There’s quite a few in France who are not happy about it as they don’t tend to cater for tents and caravans, no showers or washing up facilities etc. There’s also the better positioned sites that are going upmarket and seriously restricting the ability of normal campers to use the sites. There is an individual who is trying to get a law passed to force all ‘campsites’ to offer a fixed proportion of the emplacements for more ‘mobile’ campers.

https://newsinfrance.com/the-slow-disappearance-of-tents-caravans-and-motorhomes/

 

[chaser]

We wandered around France for months seeing this sort of thing, many of the little communities have decided that they are no longer willing to subsidise and run the old camping municipals and free aires, so they seem to slowly be turning into these sorts of ‘Camping car park’ operations. There’s quite a few in France who are not happy about it as they don’t tend to cater for tents and caravans, no showers or washing up facilities etc. There’s also the better positioned sites that are going upmarket and seriously restricting the ability of normal campers to use the sites. There is an individual who is trying to get a law passed to force all ‘campsites’ to offer a fixed proportion of the emplacements for more ‘mobile’ campers.

https://newsinfrance.com/the-slow-disappearance-of-tents-caravans-and-motorhomes/

I know you will accuse me of I told you so, but I did about three years ago , I could see what was going to happen when these things started but everyone else said , oh no they are very good ,but just wait till they get more of them .
The whole french camping thing has gone out of the window I'm afraid.

 

[Branston]

Well not quite as the Camping Car Parking is a couple of minutes away (follow signs for the Gendarmary)
Looks to be nicely laid out though, the old Aire has height restrictions on it now, but not sure if they are permanent.
Lots of motorhomes parked up in the large car parks opposite the 'old' Aire, not sure if they are overnighting though.
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So too is the free Aire at Plouscat, Brittany. It is a nice new paying Aire with 28 places with ehu at 10 euros a night.

 

[dawsey]

I know you will accuse me of I told you so, but I did about three years ago , I could see what was going to happen when these things started but everyone else said , oh no they are very good ,but just wait till they get more of them .
The whole french camping thing has gone out of the window I'm afraid.

I’m not sure why I would accuse anyone of anything?

As far as I’m concerned you can shout ‘I told you so’ from the rooftops all day long - the only slight problem for me is that I wouldn’t ever be quite sure what you told or who you told it to?

Why has ‘the whole French camping thing’ gone out the window ? As far as I can see, camping has never been more popular. I’ve never in my life seen as many campers, motorhomes, caravans, trailer tents and cycle and motorbike equipped tents on the road. What exactly has gone out the window?

The CCP type organisations are buying up municipals and aires that local communes either no longer want to or can no longer afford to run and maintain them. They then turn them into these sterile motorhome car parks often with no showers. That’s all.

This provides somewhere simple, cheap n cheerful, an option for the maybe 10% of campers who don’t actually want or need a campsite, but are prepared to pay ‘something’ for a little bit of security (once again, this is generally folk with no kids in tow, some full timers, but mostly retirees in huge self sufficient motorhomes).

For everyone else, the other 90% of campers, they are simply an irrelevance.

So, again, it’s about perspective. From the perspective of the retiree or the full timer who uses the free aires, maybe it is a disaster - the ‘free’ French camping is indeed (but very, very slowly) going ‘out of the window’.

However, the operative word here is ‘slowly’, there are still hundreds of free aires up and down the country where it looks like there are zero plans to make them chargeable. And wild camping is just as easy as it ever was.

For the other 90% of campers, the development of CCP paid camper parks, replacing free aires means absolutely diddley squat as Clarkson might say.

For the campsites, it can be actually a blessing. They are now competing (for the business of that 10% retiree cohort) against another business that must charge and make money by providing a service. They are no longer ‘competing’ against something provided entirely for free….

So now the ‘free aire’ brigade is increasingly having to choose between a ‘full fat’ campsite at maybe €20-35 per night or a CCP ‘paid aire’ glorified car park at maybe €10-20.

Bad news if you are one who likes something for nothing, but for the campsites, I’d say the growth of CCP in France is generally good news….

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[chaser]

I’m not sure why I would accuse anyone of anything?

As far as I’m concerned you can shout ‘I told you so’ from the rooftops slight problem for me is that I wouldn’t be quite sure what you told or who you told it to?

Why has ‘the whole French camping thing’ gone out the window ? As far as I can see, camping has never been more popular. I’ve never in my life seen as many campers, motorhomes, caravans, trailer tents and cycle and motorbike equipped tents on the road. What exactly has gone out the window?

The CCP type organisations are buying up municipals and aires that local communes either no longer want to or can no longer afford to run and maintain them. They then turn them into these sterile motorhome car parks often with no showers. That’s all.

This provides somewhere cheap n cheerful and simple for the maybe 10% of campers who don’t actually want or need a campsite (once again, this is the retirees with no kids in huge self sufficient motorhomes).

For everyone else, the other 90% of campers, they are simply an irrelevance.

So, again, it’s about perspective. From the perspective of the retiree who uses the free aires, maybe it is a disaster - the ‘free’ camping is indeed going out of the window.

For the other 90% of campers, the development of CCP or not means absolutely nothing.

For the campsites, it can be actually a blessing. They are now competing (for the business of that 10%) against another business that must charge and make money by providing a service, not something provided entirely for free….

Maybe 5 years ago now I came across these CCP things and I came on here and said it's going to be the end of free camping in France as we know it and was shot down by folks who said they were good things and they would be using them and more or less told me to stop criticising them, but it's ok now but wait till they have a monopoly of them, they will raise their prices to the same as campsites much the same as the clubs do here.
Which is ok for you if you are having a campsite but not so good for the punters.

 

[dawsey]

Maybe 5 years ago now I came across these CCP things and I came on here and said it's going to be the end of free camping in France as we know it and was shot down by folks who said they were good things and they would be using them and more or less told me to stop criticising them, but it's ok now but wait till they have a monopoly of them, they will raise their prices to the same as campsites much the same as the clubs do here.
Which is ok for you if you are having a campsite but not so good for the punters.

Well, maybe if they start to dramatically outnumber the free aires the days of the free camping aire are numbered, but that’s away in the future.

With the greatest of respect, isn’t competition a good thing? Remember that the CCP aires have to compete against each other, the remaining free aires, the ‘park for night’ places, the ‘camping passion’ places, and of course, the undying attraction and seriously lithium, solar and invertor enabled new ease of wildcamping?

And the campsites have to compete against them all!

Great news for everyone, except only those who would perhaps continue to expect to get something for nothing, to have the local communities provide them with free water, parking, land maintenance and management, lighting and drainage.

Look on the bright side, France or indeed anywhere on the continent will never, ever be as bad/unwelcoming as parochial and as expensive for Campers of all types as good ol’ Blighty….

 

[suavecarve]

Well not quite as the Camping Car Parking is a couple of minutes away (follow signs for the Gendarmary)
Looks to be nicely laid out though, the old Aire has height restrictions on it now, but not sure if they are permanent.
Lots of motorhomes parked up in the large car parks opposite the 'old' Aire, not sure if they are overnighting though.
View attachment 785427View attachment 785428View attachment 785429

Is that a disused railway line I see before me ? Picture 1

 

[MisterB]

Is that a disused railway line I see before me ? Picture 1

No, sorry to spoil your plan to cycle every unused railway in France before you reach the age of ninety two .... Lol

 

[olley]

I don't use an aire as a destination, if my destination has a suitable aire then that's a bonus, so the condition of the Aire is largely irrelevant along with its price.

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[Gaston aires]

So too is the free Aire at Plouscat, Brittany. It is a nice new paying Aire with 28 places with ehu at 10 euros a night.

10€ PN isn’t too bad though is it. We use camping car parks quite a lot now.
The good old days when virtually everything was free have gone now. Quite a few pay Aires now and the French dislike it more than we do. They would queue up to fill their water systems from the toilet tap rather than pay 2€
Phil upmetank

 

[nicholsong]

If chaser and dawsey have finished their little ding-dong I have a comment.

I doubt whether CCP or their competitors are interested in making a commercial Aire out of anywhere that has space for less than say 8-10 campers, unless anyone can quote examples.

Further comment is that municipalities will not let them take over CPs which are shared with cars. Barriers would not be tolerated by the locals - yellow vests would be competing to hang the Maire.

 

[dawsey]

If chaser and dawsey have finished their little ding-dong I have a comment.

I doubt whether CCP or their competitors are interested in making a commercial Aire out of anywhere that has space for less than say 8-10 campers, unless anyone can quote examples.

Further comment is that municipalities will not let them take over CPs which are shared with cars. Barriers would not be tolerated by the locals - yellow vests would be competing to hang the Maire.

Absolutely. That’s maybe 50-75% of all free ‘aires’. I completely agree, but would never suggest that anyone had a habit of taking bo**ocks

 

[Skez]

Well not quite as the Camping Car Parking is a couple of minutes away (follow signs for the Gendarmary)
Looks to be nicely laid out though, the old Aire has height restrictions on it now, but not sure if they are permanent.
Lots of motorhomes parked up in the large car parks opposite the 'old' Aire, not sure if they are overnighting though.
View attachment 785427View attachment 785428View attachment 785429

Looks like a prison compound!!

I know some like the 'security' of a fenced compound, but not I.

I'll happily pay the €10 to stay on a nice Aire, but for me a nice Aire isn't fenced in.

 

[dawsey]

Looks like a prison compound!!

I know some like the 'security' of a fenced compound, but not I.

I'll happily pay the €10 to stay on a nice Aire, but for me a nice Aire isn't fenced in.

That’s a really interesting comment and yet another perspective…

for most, us included, the only point, or advantage, of paying to stay on on of those things is the bit of added security, provided by the barrier (which is really there just to stop you getting in and out without paying…) and, of course, the fence!

Of course, if some scumbags want to rob they will, but the fence will at least is some part funnel them to the main entrance where they can just walk in, but that makes them visible and caught by the security cameras (that are really there to stop you from lifting the barrier and driving off without paying).

We have only ever used a paid aire in a major town, where we wanted to be away from the van a few hours and judged the risk of theft too high to leave it elsewhere. Here, they are a very useful addition to the options as it encourages clustering of campers in one place, which is the only real reason for the improved security (or reduction of theft risk), like a circle of wagons in the wild west. The real security is provided by each other.

Outside major towns, where we normally are (don’t even have a crit air sticker) we will always use the free village aires, which as Nicolsong correctly points out are almost always too small to be considered by the likes of CCP and also often shared by the locals as they are so often next to kids playing fields, parks, the starts of walking routes, boules courts or other public areas like bas de loisir. It is nearly always the old and larger ‘camping municipals’ that the likes of CCP buy up, bad news really only for folk with tents as it is removing the only really cheap camping options for the youngsters and families with tents who would have stayed on a super cheap but basic and accessible municipal site in or on the edge of town/village (as opposed to a privately owned and usually more expensive commercial site a bit further out of town and usually developed by a farmer or landowner). That is the only real negative of the development of the CCP network.

Though we admit to being among those who like something for nothing, we aren’t here for a holiday. The only time that the free aires are not so good is summer, when they are overcrowded, you can’t spread out with awnings tables etc (though we see that many still do), the ‘openness to the public’ can be an issue (just move on) but the real problem for us comes with really hot weather, managing the temperature in the van in full sun in one of those aires with few trees. It can be too risky to leave the windows open all night so the van can struggle to cool after sundown.

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[SpeedyDux]

Why has ‘the whole French camping thing’ gone out the window ? As far as I can see, camping has never been more popular. I’ve never in my life seen as many campers, motorhomes, caravans, trailer tents and cycle and motorbike equipped tents on the road. What exactly has gone out the window?

That's my recent experience. I have never seen so many tent campers on Municipals until this year, even entire young families arriving on bicycles, very commonplace.

They need cheap grass pitches (often without EHU) and basic sanitation blocks. Swimming pools are a big plus for families.

This is in keeping with the original policy of cheap camping holidays to be made available by local municipalities for all French people after WW2.

CCP takeovers are the exact opposite.

 

[MisterB]

when the weather recently changed, the campsite we are suddenly got VERY busy with campers etc and is now approaching saturation point ! which suggests to me that 'tenting' is still as popular as ever when the sun shines !

 

[Neil S]

when the weather recently changed, the campsite we are suddenly got VERY busy with campers etc and is now approaching saturation point ! which suggests to me that 'tenting' is still as popular as ever when the sun shines !

CCP do have a number of site's throughout France which accept caravans and tents , 83 in total at the moment
listed under camping de mon

 

[cyberyacht]

My month's sojourn earlier this summer was 4 camp sites, 4 paid aires and 7 freebie aires. Can't see it being problematic before I fall off my perch.

 

[chaser]

Well, maybe if they start to dramatically outnumber the free aires the days of the free camping aire are numbered, but that’s away in the future.

With the greatest of respect, isn’t competition a good thing? Remember that the CCP aires have to compete against each other, the remaining free aires, the ‘park for night’ places, the ‘camping passion’ places, and of course, the undying attraction and seriously lithium, solar and invertor enabled new ease of wildcamping?

And the campsites have to compete against them all!

Great news for everyone, except only those who would perhaps continue to expect to get something for nothing, to have the local communities provide them with free water, parking, land maintenance and management, lighting and drainage.

Look on the bright side, France or indeed anywhere on the continent will never, ever be as bad/unwelcoming as parochial and as expensive for Campers of all types as good ol’ Blighty….

Why do they have to compete with one another if it's the same company?

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[chaser]

My month's sojourn earlier this summer was 4 camp sites, 4 paid aires and 7 freebie aires. Can't see it being problematic before I fall off my perch.

I completely agree and believe it or not I am thinking of other people here , it won't make one iota of difference to me for the time I have left but the good times we have had will be lost on the new folks coming into it.
It will be the norm to get screwed on every turn much the same as it is here now.

 

[dawsey]

I completely agree and believe it or not I am thinking of other people here , it won't make one iota of difference to me for the time I have left but the good times we have had will be lost on the new folks coming into it.
It will be the norm to get screwed on every turn much the same as it is here now.

As ever, I would respectfully disagree. The reason why that won’t happen is due to the fundamental cultural difference between the Brits and the French and indeed most Europeans with respect to camper vans and camping. The Brits, in general, look at you in your camper as essentially the same as a gypsy or a traveller, and will welcome your presence in their community with much the same relish.

The French are somehow able to much more easily differentiate between a ‘camping cariste’ and a ‘Manouche’.

Thus, you will be generally be welcomed everywhere as you might spend some money with the local businesses. For this reason, the wide selection of local small free rural aires will always remain. For many of the small and dying communities they are a bit of a lifeline.

In the more popular/busy and attractive areas, the coasts, the plus beau villages and the larger towns and cities you are at the mercy of commercial and market forces. Where there is sufficient demand, and money to be made, freebie options will slowly disappear.

CCP are in competition with other corporate operators of paid aires for the acquisition of the old municipals, and also in competition with private investors (like us) looking for business opportunity. Camping is undergoing something of a renaissance, witness the renewed popularity of even the most humble camping municipals, the locality in many cases can look again at viability of operation, especially as the locality has access to all the ‘new technologies’ that CCP have routinely deployed as part of its operating model to reduce cost, ie automatic payment and barriers etc.

The CCP business model relies on unmanned sites, it’s how costs are kept under control. It means few to zero services are provided, maintenance must be ultra low (so few trees, grass and flowers etc). All you usually thus get is a bare gravel ugly glorified car park. For that reason they will never really compete with campsites.

 

[SpeedyDux]

CCP do have a number of site's throughout France which accept caravans and tents , 83 in total at the moment
listed under camping de mon

Probably not suitable for the big groups of youngsters accompanied by adult Leaders, in their rows of tents.

I was quite impressed by the discipline and consideration for other campers the French kids showed. Not a sound after lights out.

 

[SpeedyDux]

As ever, I would respectfully disagree. The reason why that won’t happen is due to the fundamental cultural difference between the Brits and the French and indeed most Europeans with respect to camper vans and camping. The Brits, in general, look at you in your camper as essentially the same as a gypsy or a traveller, and will welcome your presence in their community with much the same relish.

The French are somehow able to much more easily differentiate between a ‘camping cariste’ and a ‘Manouche’.

Thus, you will be generally be welcomed everywhere as you might spend some money with the local businesses. For this reason, the wide selection of local small free rural aires will always remain. For many of the small and dying communities they are a bit of a lifeline.

In the more popular/busy and attractive areas, the coasts, the plus beau villages and the larger towns and cities you are at the mercy of commercial and market forces. Where there is sufficient demand, and money to be made, freebie options will slowly disappear.

CCP are in competition with other corporate operators of paid aires for the acquisition of the old municipals, and also in competition with private investors (like us) looking for business opportunity. Camping is undergoing something of a renaissance, witness the renewed popularity of even the most humble camping municipals, the locality in many cases can look again at viability of operation, especially as the locality has access to all the ‘new technologies’ that CCP have routinely deployed as part of its operating model to reduce cost, ie automatic payment and barriers etc.

The CCP business model relies on unmanned sites, it’s how costs are kept under control. It means few to zero services are provided, maintenance must be ultra low (so few trees, grass and flowers etc). All you usually thus get is a bare gravel ugly glorified car park. For that reason they will never really compete with campsites.

I agree. I don't like the unmanned business model. I don't use self-service checkouts either.

One observation - the French are very wary of the Gens de Voyage. Who are more regulated than Gypsies and Travellers are in the UK and are required to be attached to a specific commune. I noticed that there are quite a lot of sites designated for Gens de Voyage, but that hasn't stopped illegal encampments. When they were in the local area, the Municipal Police sent regular patrols to check on the Municipal campsite. Quite common to find that twin axle caravans are banned from Muncipal campsites. Those caravanners would need to use commercial campsites.

 

[dawsey]

I agree. I don't like the unmanned business model. I don't use self-service checkouts either.

One observation - the French are very wary of the Gens de Voyage. Who are more regulated than Gypsies and Travellers are in the UK and are required to be attached to a specific commune. I noticed that there are quite a lot of sites designated for Gens de Voyage, but that hasn't stopped illegal encampments. When they were in the local area, the Municipal Police sent regular patrols to check on the Municipal campsite. Quite common to find that twin axle caravans are banned from Muncipal campsites. Those caravanners would need to use commercial campsites.

Absolutely. ‘Manouche’ is a derogatory French term for the Gens de Voyage.

The French local authorities and the Police don’t take any nonsense from them like the Brits do. There are designated places for them and they are expected to use them. We’ve also seen the regular police patrols of the larger aires and the signs that state no more than 2 days stay is permitted in the free aires.

Interestigly, in Spring we stayed for a week on two seperate of free aires with a 48hr limit and both times saw the police driving round every other day. We saw them and feel certain they saw and noted us (and other full timers) possibly ‘outstaying our welcome’ several times but they didn’t bother any of us at all. They know perfectly well the difference between tourist and travellers or ‘gen de Voyage’, even if the lines do start to get a little blurred with some of the ‘full timers’…

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[Neil S]

Probably not suitable for the big groups of youngsters accompanied by adult Leaders, in their rows of tents.

I was quite impressed by the discipline and consideration for other campers the French kids showed. Not a sound after lights out.

Maybe not all but we stayed here on the 19th of July and there was primary school party of approximately 40

kids at camping on site , they were very well behaved

 

[nicholsong]

Probably not suitable for the big groups of youngsters accompanied by adult Leaders, in their rows of tents.

I was quite impressed by the discipline and consideration for other campers the French kids showed. Not a sound after lights out.

Same in Poland. I was a bit nervous when 30 Boy Scouts turned up at a lakeside where we were parked. Basia(ex-'Boy Scout' - no Girl Guides in Poland) said don't worry they will be no problem, and they were not! Well done all.

Does English school curriculum include 'Discipline'?

 

[philann]

I didn’t think CCP actually owned the sites but managed them on behalf of the owner/ municipality who then get an income without the hassle.

 

[bellabee]

I didn’t think CCP actually owned the sites but managed them on behalf of the owner/ municipality who then get an income without the hassle.

I'm fairly certain you're right.