Carthago missing engine tray?

[MajorClanger]

Hi all!

I'm after some very specific advice about a 2014 Carthago C-CompactLine I 143 that we are in the process of buying. It's a standard Fiat Ducato engine on a Al-Ko Light chassis. We had an inspection done (long story!), which threw up some "issues", one of which was (and I quote) "The engine front central under-tray assembly is missing".

Talking with the dealer, they had a look on other Carthagos that they had lying around, and said it's the same on all of them!

So, is this normal? I would have thought there would be some sort of cover to keep stones/rubbish/etc out of the engine, and also reduce the amount of noise coming out.

 

[ambulancekidd]

This certainly sounds strange to me, never come across anything of this type before.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Ours has one although it only had one screw out of five holding it in place ! It has dealer service history.
I for one would want it in place.

 

[Campervan_man]

Probably mechanic took it off and forgot to put it back on.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Probably mechanic took it off and forgot to put it back on.

It’s a big thing to forget! Out of site out of mind

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[XxAnthxX]

There’s the full assembly.....

You can get just the central part missing if that’s all is missing. Probably taken off for an oil change and either not replaced or fell off since.

Just tell the dealer you want it fitting, regardless of if his other vans have them or not.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=264539763734

 

[gus-lopez]

Many vehicles now don't have them
I

I would have thought there would be some sort of cover to keep stones/rubbish/etc out of the engine, and also reduce the amount of noise coming out.

So would I as I have the same situation on a 2007 Transit with no under tray.
I've exposed A/C belt & the auxiliary belt .I have two easily damaged A/C pipes along with the power steering pipes . It appears they discontinued them from the mark 7-
My old Ducato had one but I use to leave it off when here due to the heat buiild up.When I offered it to the new owner he refused for that same reason. Too much trapped heat. In the Uk I suppose it wouldn't be a problem most of the time?

 

[Wagoneer]

My 2010 Carthago Fiat doesn't have a central cover under the sump. Only on the offside to protect the belts. Think this is the standard arrangement.

Edit: just seen post #6 - perhaps I'm wrong ???

 

[MajorClanger]

Thanks everyone for this. We'll be talking with the dealer tomorrow.

 

[Landy Andy]

Mine was missing the centre section, so bought one on eBay and fitted it.

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[f6c]

I have owned a 138 & 143 both new neither had a Tray.

 

[Beacons]

Ours hasn't got one .

 

[Bognor Saint]

Well. I know I will be doing on my next trip to storage.

 

[Ninjabob]

Our 17 plate Peugeot Boxer has not got one. Always thought about fitting one to protect sump against corrosion. Anyone know of a good reason not to hit one?

 

[Pausim]

When it stops raining I will take a look.

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[Deneb]

The central undertray is almost never fitted as standard on Ducatos. Until recently even the nearside one wasn't fitted as standard, at least on UK vehicles, with only the offside section present to afford some protection to the drive belts, etc.

 

[4Travel]

My 2016 Ducato has all 3 panels fitted from new.

 

[Deneb]

My 2016 Ducato has all 3 panels fitted from new.

I did say almost never. But this was an observation in 2016 from the owner of a large fleet rental comapny that hire out and maintain their own and other customer's Ducatos:

"The middle and nearside sections are not fitted on most UK vehicles. The only exception that i have seen was on 3.0 comfort-matics and i think this was only to make the engine even quieter and improve the perception of refinement but they were a pain in the backside to remove for servicing."

and a Rapido owner:

"It may be the case that the majority of UK-marketed Ducatos do not have the full 3-piece undertray, but it’s not unique to this country. My French-built 2015 LHD Rapido motorhome based on a Ducato X290 only has the section of undertray on the UK-offside protecting the alternator/drive belts."

They are an additional cost option that would have been specified by the purchaser (i.e. MH converter) when ordering the vehicles from Fiat.

I fitted a set from a Polish seller on eBay a couple of years ago, and whilst the plastic is thinner than the genuine Fiat items, they are plenty robust enough when mounted, and do protect the sump from stone chips.

Bear in mind though that, particularly on a motorhome which spends a lot more time standing around than your average commercial van, you will be creating a water trap under your engine that will allow standing water to collect and condense on your electrical connectors and other engine bay components unless the van is always parked perfectly level, with the propensity to cause future problems, unless like me you identify a number of suitable locations to drill additional drain holes in the panels.

They will also almost double the time spent completing an oil change, and if you don't do your own changes, you can expect that half the fittings will have probably been mislaid by the garage technician by the time you get the vehicle back as well!

 

[XxAnthxX]

My 2016 Ducato has all 3 panels fitted from new.

+1 for my 2014 and my 2010 Ducato

 

[68c]

My twenty year old Pilote Peugeot Boxer does have the tray, it is damaged in places. The MOT history repeatedly has an adisory that it was not possible to inspect engine area as undertray fitted. The MOT inspectors are not allowed to remove them. I removed the tray when replacing cam belt etc. Due to the damage I did not refit it, I have not noticed any change in noise level. However I did find more corrosion than expected especially on the power steering pipes and fittings. I will be treating and replacing problem areas on the run up to the next MOT. Have not decided whether to repair and refit the undertray.

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[Lenny HB]

Just had a look under my 2017 Hymer, just left & right hand side ones no central one, I' sure my previous 2014 one was the same.

 

[Phill D]

it is common not to have all the trays fitted it depends on the spec by the converter. mine only had 1 tray an one side. when checked with the main FIAT dealer they can look up what was specified at the factory and confirm what was standard on your chassis ( by your number ).
i purchased the missing bits and fitted them.

be aware if you do buy the missing trays they need Rivnuts fitting along part of the cross member to hold them and a set of specific self tapper screws for the front end. you can buy a kit of the fittings.

 

[Vipar]

Are there factory bolt holes there or do they have to be drilled.
To old to get under mine. If I do I will need time to sit up or my head will spin like a roundabout.

 

[Deneb]

If you wan't to know whether yours is missing or never fitted at the factory, check the engine subframe, with reference to the large rear bolt that secures the rear of the fitted side panel or panels. You will find two hexagonal holes in the subframe at the centre panel bolt locations, and another for the missing side panel if you only have one.

If there are rivnuts fitted in the hexagonal holes, the additional panels were previously fitted and must have been lost or mislaid. If you only have hexagonal holes without rivnuts, then they were never fitted at the factory.

Edit: Phill D has just mentioned similar. I would still assert that whilst full panels may have been specified by some motorhome converters that, across the Ducato range as a whole, they are not common!

 

[MajorClanger]

Mumma Clanger has just got off the phone with the dealer. They're going to fit a centre panel; partly because we've asked, and partly because we've found some paperwork that said there was a replacement one fitted in 2018, at a cost of £298.80 + labour.

This does mean that the chances of us picking the van up on Saturday (1st Aug) are slim as they have to order the part from Carthago.

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[Deneb]

They're going to fit a centre panel; partly because we've asked, and partly because we've found some paperwork that said there was a replacement one fitted in 2018, at a cost of £298.80 + labour.

I paid about £60 for a full set from Poland, including delivery!

 

[XxAnthxX]

I included a link in post #6

 

[Deneb]

I included a link in post #6

I got mine from this one.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=172499292958

Both the same part and same price when you factor the postage cost on yours and "free" P&P on mine

Surprisingly decent kit for the price, IMO.

 

[Minxy]

Hi all!

I'm after some very specific advice about a 2014 Carthago C-CompactLine I 143 that we are in the process of buying. It's a standard Fiat Ducato engine on a Al-Ko Light chassis.

Have you got a weighbridge certificate? If not I suggest you get the dealer to do one to ensure you have some payload left especially on the rear axle - we were tight on our new 138 (light chassis) and had to have semi-air fitted to the rear at a cost of £2,000 to increase the axle capacity so it's not a cheap option.

 

[Pausim]

Hi all!

I'm after some very specific advice about a 2014 Carthago C-CompactLine I-143 that we are in the process of buying. It's a standard Fiat Ducato engine on a Al-Ko Light chassis. We had an inspection done (long story!), which threw up some "issues", one of which was (and I quote) "The engine front central under-tray assembly is missing".

Talking with the dealer, they had a look on other Carthagos that they had lying around, and said it's the same on all of them!

So, is this normal? I would have thought there would be some sort of cover to keep stones/rubbish/etc out of the engine, and also reduce the amount of noise coming out.

My 2019 I143 has the 2 side trays but not the central one but I am not going to worry about it because
i) Carthago and Fiat seem happy with the arrangement and
ii) I am not planning on entering the Dakar rally.

On my I-143 lightweight chassis the maximum is 3,850kg. I asked for it to be registered at 3,500kg and was supplied with a sticker to put alongside the original 3,850kg one. The axle weights are still 2,000kg and 1850kg which add up to the chassis maximum of 3,850kg so there is no need to upgrade anything. All you need do is make sure the plated axle weights add up to the maximum the chassis can take.