Brake Pad Change - 2006 Fiat Ducato

[PP Bear]

Just changed the front brake pads again. Some of you might recall my thread about my front pads delaminating at 25,000 miles. (https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ducato-owners-beware.118694/#post-1616002).

Well, I've completed just under 10,000 miles (34275 miles now on the clock) since I replaced them and wanted to give them a check to see how they held up to the mileage.

Glad I did, as they were showing signs of early delamination again. First set I checked and changed at 25000 miles and they had completely split, whereas these had done just under the 10,000 miles and started to do the same.

Maybe just a coincidence, but both times it was from the front righthand side.

Anyway, new pads done. It's such a simple job to do, well within the reach of a competent DIY mechanic.

Few photos along the way.

Make sure you use a suitable jack and axle stand and chock the rear wheels with the handbrake on for safety. Never ever work under an unsupported vehicle at any time.

After removing the wheel, turn the steering to make access easier.

Pop off the rubber caps. Be careful not to split them. If they're split then replace them.
On the front left side, is the brake wear indicator, which needs disconnecting. There isn't a wear indicator on the other side.

Once the rubber caps are removed, you can unscrew the retaining bolts and remove them completely.

Disconnect the wear indicator wire.

Depress and remove the anti rattle spring retainer and slide it from the sensor cable.

Make sure these are serviceable. If not then they'll need replacing.

Insert a flat headed tool and gently depress the pad shroud to retract the pistons. Be sure to fully retract them to take the size of the new pads. You may require to remove the brake master cylinder cap and place a rag around it, just in case the fluid spills from the caliper pistons being compressed.

With the pistons retracted, you can easily remove the piston carrier and inspect the rubber seals. Do not let it dangle on the hoses.

It can easily sit on top of the assembly, or tied up and supported, but at no time allow it to pull, kink or dangle on the brake hoses.

You can now remove the old pads for either inspection or replacement. If you've got this far, it's worth simply replacing them.

At this point you can clean the mating surfaces with a flat tool. Do not score the disc.

The new pads in place.

Copperslip or another brake grease can be applied to the surfaces that contact the pistons and other mated surface. Be sure not to get any on either the disc or brake pad surfaces.
At this stage you can reassemble the two mated parts.

Once the assembly is together, you can put the bolts back in, noting that the new bolts have a locking compound on the threads.

Replace the rubber caps, the retaining antirattle spring and wear indicator wire.

It's an ideal time to clean the inside of the wheel and examine the inside wall of the tyre at the same time.

And apply a layer of copper grease on the inside of the wheel, where it mates with the hub. This will allow it to be freed a lot easier the next time it has to be removed.

While there is still plenty of depth and life in the pads, you can clearly see the pad has started to delaminate, only this time I've caught it before it completely fails.

The old pads waiting to be disposed of.

The pads I changed at 25000 miles, clearly showing complete failure.

Hope it might help anyone who may wish to change their own pads.

Please remember to stay safe and take extreme care when working under or around a supported vehicle

 

[Misterg]

Thanks - What make of pad did you use in each case?

 

[PP Bear]

Thanks - What make of pad did you use in each case?

Pagid.

Don't know what Fiat fit from factory.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I think someone is looking for a job at Haynes Manuals

One thing to note after any works on brakes is that you should run them in. It will take a short while for the new pads to fully bed into the discs.

 

[Boringfrog]

Are Pagid Eurocarparts own brand? I would specify Apec or Brake Engineering for my own vehicle.

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[MisterB]

I replaced the rears on a 2004 a few weeks ago and also replaced the discs aswell. it seemed to make sense to do it all in one go for a 15 year old van, should last another 15 years now ! I used a brake rewind tool tough to depress the pistons 'slowly' and the tip of unscrewing the top of the brake reservoir AND using something to collect any excess brake fluid is a 'top tip' - I used a plastic food container underneath - and it was needed !

total cost about £100

 

[PP Bear]

Are Pagid Eurocarparts own brand? I would specify Apec or Brake Engineering for my own vehicle.

Pagid has a strong history and earned its reputation with vehicle manufacturers like VW Group, DaimlerChrysler,Opel/Saab and Porsche.Through the years a philosophy of quality and performance has ensured Pagid has evolved into the choice of vehicle manufacturers globally. Pagid's reputation for high performance friction is substantiated by O.E. approvals with:

• Audi S4, S6, RS 6, TT, Q7
• Mercedes C-Class, SLR
• Opel Vectra OPC
• Lamborghini Murcielago
• Aston Martin Vanquish
• VW Phaeton, Touareg
• Porsche 997 GT3 RS, Cayenne
• Leading the field in both O.E. and aftermarket friction development, Pagid is working in partnership with the world's leading brake and vehicles manufacturers for high performance cars.

 

[Boringfrog]

I would have changed the discs as well.

 

[PP Bear]

I would have changed the discs as well.

View attachment 290550

Misleading photo.

I'd have changed them if they needed it.

 

[MisterB]

looking at the photos again, I'm not sure how you can tell they are delaminating when you view them through the anti rattle spring? could the damage have been caused when you levered the pads back against the pistons to retract them as opposed to using a brake rewind tool? I am not a mechanic so I wouldn't know how to check for delaminating pads??

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[MisterB]

Misleading photo.

I'd have changed them if they needed it.

I only changed my rear discs because they came up as an advisory on the mot. they were reported as rusty but not defective ...

 

[Happy Jim]

Well written and great photo’s !

 

[Figaro]

Thanks, a useful post.
Can I ask what the wear sensor wire you refer to connects onto ?
I had my pads changed and shortly after started getting the wear sensor light on the dash.
This it was quickly established was the wire rubbing and shorting on the wheel rim.

 

[PP Bear]

looking at the photos again, I'm not sure how you can tell they are delaminating when you view them through the anti rattle spring? could the damage have been caused when you levered the pads back against the pistons to retract them as opposed to using a brake rewind tool? I am not a mechanic so I wouldn't know how to check for delaminating pads??

That’s the problem, you can’t tell unless you physically remove the pads for inspection.

When I first checked mine at 25000 miles, they looked in good order. It was another Funster that advised me to remove and inspect them. Glad I did as they had broken on that occasion.

There’s no possibility of damaging the pads in the way the photos show and the brake system doesn’t require a rewinding tool.

 

[PP Bear]

Thanks, a useful post.
Can I ask what the wear sensor wire you refer to connects onto ?
I had my pads changed and shortly after started getting the wear sensor light on the dash.
This it was quickly established was the wire rubbing and shorting on the wheel rim.

The wear sensor joins at the front left as shown in the pictures. I imagine this is then fed into the vehicles electronics to monitor pad wear.

Looking at the setup, I can easily see how the wire could wear. The system is very basic and only requires an earth to make the circuit and the pad warning light would come on, as had happened in your case.

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[MisterB]

ok, I will take your word for it ... but will continue to use a brake rewind tool (I have previously used a g cramp which works just as well) rather than a 'levering' action, to reset the pistons.

 

[ivorantony]

I personally would only use high end brake manufacturers pads/shoes
Like Delphi (Lockheed) ATE, Bosch, Pads that are fitted as original equipment,
If it’s the same side I would look carefully and the two callipers slides, if sticking even a small amount your pads will run hot,
Also the same for the piston,
Another possible fault that I have seen when in the trade is a collapse flexible brake hose internally, you can squeeze fluid through under pressure but it doesn’t return when you release the brakes,

This will cause the pads to be slow returning to their resting position so creating a much hotter pad on one side,
And finally but unlikely in your case is any contamination of brake fluid on pads or shoes will break the pad/shoes bonding quite quickly,
Normally happens when you have a slight weeping wheel cylinders that goes unnoticed, the complete shoe unbonds and jams the rear wheels,

 

[PP Bear]

ok, I will take your word for it ... but will continue to use a brake rewind tool (I have previously used a g cramp which works just as well) rather than a 'levering' action, to reset the pistons.

That’s 100% your choice, but I would like to say this if I may. If you attempt to rotate a slave cylinder piston that doesn’t require it, you could be causing internal damage to the seals and ‘o’ rings. These are designed to be pushed back in so to speak and not rotated.

Most slave cylinders that require rotation are usually on the rear and incorporate the hand brake mechanism that does rotate the piston in order to keep the handbrake element effective. These are then designed to be rotated back again to take account of the size of the new pads.

 

[MisterB]

thanks for the info (genuinely !) the brake rewind tools I use don't rotate the piston, they rotate within their own 'frame' and push the piston back into place WITHOUT rotating the piston. I didn't know why they were designed to do it like that - but I do know now !!

 

[210ians]

Also as above you may have a sticking caliper piston on the side you had the delamination the last time ,
How long since you last found the same problem and has the MH been sitting for long without moving just a thought

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