Bikes and numb arms and hands.

[Jake Royd]

We did the Tissington Trail on one day last week and Carsington water the day after.
We stayed at the CCC Ashbourne site.
Both rides are for us, long ones , cycled on an electric bike, so no massive effort.

However, on both rides I suffered both arms and hands rendered completely numb from the obvious vibration from the gravel surface.
This is made a little worse by quite a lot of weight , bike posturewise, still being carried on the arms.
I know this is a good thing for control and balance with off road cycling.

My ebike is a low end one but it has front suspension.
I compared the witness mark from the seals and could see that the plunge range of the forks was about maybe 40mm , so it's working.

I also suffer from numb arms and shoulders when sleeping, so probably it's me, not the bike.
We fixed this on the motorhome by replacing the mattress with a custom one from customsized beds , very comfortable, better than home.

Now, after all this preamble, the question I would ask, please, is has any Funster had a similar cycling problem and solved it with a new bike?
Possibly one with adjustable rate and damping on the front forks?

It's possible one needs suspension movement purely for off road ability and it confers no advantage in secondary ride comfort. ie. vibration from small regular surface imperfections still get to the handlebars?

 

[Shrimp]

Years ago I had a Honda XBR 500, lovely bike but it put all my weight onto my arms & shoulders.
Hubby fixed it by milling spacers so the handlebars were higher.
Never got numbing. Sorry doesn’t really help you!

 

[Nasher]

A few things to try:

Have a look for better handlebar grips

Make sure you use your hands as hooks on the handlebar and are not gripping them tightly

Look up some articles in bike set up (seat/handlebar) obviously using electric power means you are not taking much of your weight/absorbing bumps with you legs

Softer fork suspension may help a little as well

 

[The Coops]

Look for big grips! Larger than average hand grips made from foam, cushions the vibrations Plenty about on cycle/motorcycle web sites I would start there first rather than a new bike, much cheaper option, you have front suspension forks, try an adjustable air cushion seat and or a suspension seat post as well

 

[jonasw19]

Yes, I suffered from numbness and pins and needles on my hybrid bike. Tried many combinations of saddle height and reach to handle bars. Concluded that I am unsuited to bikes that put so much pressure on my arms and wrists.
This year we both bought electric stepthrough bikes, with dutch style handle bars. This style means nearly all the weight is taken by the bottom and pins and needles and numbness have all but gone.
We do longer rougher rides than before, including bridleways, greenlanes and hills.
There is still some investigation required into tyres, but we are getting more out of our ebike stepthroughs than our hybrids.
Jon

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[Jake Royd]

Yes, I suffered from numbness and pins and needles on my hybrid bike. Tried many combinations of saddle height and reach to handle bars. Concluded that I am unsuited to bikes that put so much pressure on my arms and wrists.
This year we both bought electric stepthrough bikes, with dutch style handle bars. This style means nearly all the weight is taken by the bottom and pins and needles and numbness have all but gone.
We do longer rougher rides than before, including bridleways, greenlanes and hills.
There is still some investigation required into tyres, but we are getting more out of our ebike stepthroughs than our hybrids.
Jon

My wife has a good quality Giant Dutch style stepthrough , despite a smaller tyre section and higher pressures it seems to ride much smoother. It also has flat areas on the handgrips where you can place the flat of your hand.

I do ride with proper cycling gloves which improve things a bit.

I have a feeling my bike has rubbish front forks. Yes they are sprung but I see no evidence of much damping.

 

[wolfie2]

I changed the handlebars on my step through ebike from straight(ish) to Dutch style. Much more comfortable...and stopped aching wrists..

 

[Jake Royd]

I changed the handlebars on my step through ebike from straight(ish) to Dutch style. Much more comfortable...and stopped aching wrists..

I've raised the handlebars on mine as much as I can to have more upright posture. Helps a bit.

 

[RustyRuss]

Numbness in your hands and arms is all to do with the three-way relationship between handlebars, saddle and the location of the pedals. The axis of the pedals should be under the front point of the saddle as a general rule, however as we're all different heights, weights, arm and leg lengths and body shapes this can only ever be a general rule. As a guide to saddle height, you should be able to sit on the saddle and have both of your tip toes on the ground, NOT the soles of your feet! Also pedalling should be done with the balls of your feet on the axle of the pedal, NOT your instep on the pedal. This is more efficient when transferring leg muscle power to the pedals and also means your legs bare more of your weight than your hands and arms. Mums n Dads teach their kids to ride bikes, but hardly any of them are experts or know about the dynamics of riding, what Mums n Dads do is teach you how to balance and stay on the blessed thing and not fall off every time you want to turn a corner or stop. They don't tell you how to get the most out of your machine. It's probably worth a visit to a bike shop and pay a little to have your bike fitted to you. Saddle and handle bar height, brake lever adjustment etc. etc.
That's a point! When you get a new bike the brake levers are normally parallel to the ground, they should be in line with an imaginary line drawn through your shoulder/elbow/wrist so that they come comfortably to hand and so that you can apply them hard in an emergency.

Well that's my tenpenurth!

Have Fun!

Russ

 

[dulvil]

I think you need to see your doctor, it sounds like carpal tunnel trouble, that’s how mine started

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[Armytwowheels]

My input would be to try and look at the position of your wrists when cycling. On a straight bar bike your wrist should not be flexed downward, I,e wrist below your fist. Your forearm should lead to your hand with little or no dip at the wrist. If you have to drop your wrist to break or change gear, try adjusting your leavers to be further under the bar.

 

[jonasw19]

I now run my tyres at lower pressures, 40 to 45psi. Sometimes even lower. No pinch flats in 1500 miles, only one puncture between 2 bikes.
We have Kalkhoff endeavour 3b bikes which seem to be low to mid range spec. The forks do work, and they also have suspension seats, which might work but seem a bit rubbish. I adjusted the seats mechanism to slide more freely and to account for our different weights. I can now see the seat post moving when mrs asw19 is ahead of me. Thats my excuse for staring anyway!
Even with the Dutch style there is considerable scope for adjusting weight distribution.
We have also got gel pads in our cycling trousers, well worth it, no expense gone to Decathlon kit, bullet proof.
I am quite tall at 6'3", and have never quite found a comfortable bike, probably because I am special...
Jon

 

[PhilMary]

Numbness in your hands and arms is all to do with the three-way relationship between handlebars, saddle and the location of the pedals. The axis of the pedals should be under the front point of the saddle as a general rule, however as we're all different heights, weights, arm and leg lengths and body shapes this can only ever be a general rule. As a guide to saddle height, you should be able to sit on the saddle and have both of your tip toes on the ground, NOT the soles of your feet! Also pedalling should be done with the balls of your feet on the axle of the pedal, NOT your instep on the pedal. This is more efficient when transferring leg muscle power to the pedals and also means your legs bare more of your weight than your hands and arms. Mums n Dads teach their kids to ride bikes, but hardly any of them are experts or know about the dynamics of riding, what Mums n Dads do is teach you how to balance and stay on the blessed thing and not fall off every time you want to turn a corner or stop. They don't tell you how to get the most out of your machine. It's probably worth a visit to a bike shop and pay a little to have your bike fitted to you. Saddle and handle bar height, brake lever adjustment etc. etc.
That's a point! When you get a new bike the brake levers are normally parallel to the ground, they should be in line with an imaginary line drawn through your shoulder/elbow/wrist so that they come comfortably to hand and so that you can apply them hard in an emergency.

Well that's my tenpenurth!

Have Fun!

Russ

Just a couple of corrections, important ones.
The saddle nose to pedal vertical axis distance is not relevant and is often mis-quoted. The best guide is get used to the saddle and then set the forward backward movement on the saddle rails until the front of your knee, when the pedals are level, is directly above the pedal axle.
The general idea is if your bike is the correct size and fitted there will be no weight on you hands.
Phil

 

[Nigel Crompton]

By all means fiddle with the geometry to your heart's content. but try a pair of these:
<Broken link removed>
Other brands/styles are available.

 

[Neil Bedwin]

Bend your wrist back as far as it will go and then press firmly in the middle of your hand (side to side) in line with your thumb. If your fingers start to tingle in a minute or so you have Carpel Tunnel Syndrome. This is being aggravated by the weight on your hands while riding.
I had the carpel ligament release operation on my right hand a couple of years ago and have had no numb hand while riding since then. My left hand now needs doing but covid interupts.

Ideally you should have as little weight on your hands as possible while riding.

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[Boringfrog]

As a guide to saddle height, you should be able to sit on the saddle and have both of your tip toes on the ground, NOT the soles of your feet!
Russ

I'm quite tall, so always buy a large framed bike, I have never been able to put both toes on the ground, if I could that means my seat would be too low. I've also taught my girlfriend to get off the seat when coming to a halt. You see loads of folks with the seat low enough to straddle at a standstill but this isn't always the best height for everyone.

 

[Neil Bedwin]

I'm quite tall, so always buy a large framed bike, I have never been able to put both toes on the ground, if I could that means my seat would be too low. I've also taught my girlfriend to get off the seat when coming to a halt. You see loads of folks with the seat low enough to straddle at a standstill but this isn't always the best height for everyone.

I set my saddle so when I am on it my leg is straight when my heal is on the pedal at it's lowest point. This gives you a slight bend in the leg when clipped in or with the ball of your foot over the pedal axle.

Putting your toes on the floor would then depend on the style of bike. I might manage with a road bike but the MTB has a higher bottom bracket so the pedal will be higher off the floor.

 

[buttons]

We did the Tissington Trail on one day last week and Carsington water the day after.
We stayed at the CCC Ashbourne site.
Both rides are for us, long ones , cycled on an electric bike, so no massive effort.

However, on both rides I suffered both arms and hands rendered completely numb from the obvious vibration from the gravel surface.
This is made a little worse by quite a lot of weight , bike posturewise, still being carried on the arms.
I know this is a good thing for control and balance with off road cycling.

My ebike is a low end one but it has front suspension.
I compared the witness mark from the seals and could see that the plunge range of the forks was about maybe 40mm , so it's working.

I also suffer from numb arms and shoulders when sleeping, so probably it's me, not the bike.
We fixed this on the motorhome by replacing the mattress with a custom one from customsized beds , very comfortable, better than home.

Now, after all tthis preamble, the question I would ask, please, is has any Funster had a similar cycling problem and solved it with a new bike?
Possibly one with adjustable rate and damping on the front forks?

It's possible one needs suspension movement purely for off road ability and it confers no advantage in secondary ride comfort. ie. vibration from small regular surface imperfections still get to the handlebars?

When I used to ride daily I used to get similar on a road bike. Cyclist tend to sit up and shake their hands and arms. This can get the blood circulating and free up the nerves in your hands and shoulders.

 

[The Lord Squid]

Have you tried proper cycling gloves?

 

[slowcoach65]

See your GP - Hand-Arm-Vibration syndrome, nerve compression and circulatory conditions can present like this. Nevertheless, still a good excuse for getting a better bike

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[PhilMary]

I forgot to mention, buying a new bike always makes one feel better, besides, if it's red it will go faster as well.
Phil

 

[Minxy]

I had similar as I had issues with my hands/wrists etc (carpal tunnel) but even after the ops I still had problems when riding a bike so I changed the handgrips for wider ones with a flat sections at the rear which your palms go on, this spreads the weight so it's not just concentrated on one point on your hands. Mine were cheapies off Ebay as well as some gel cycling gloves (again just cheapies) and these combined with the new grips worked a treat, you do have to get the height of the handlebars right and angle of the brake levers/grips too but once set up you shouldn't have any issues.

As for the shoulder issue, this could be due a similar thing to carpal tunnel but in the shoulder, I can't remember the name of it but it is fairly common though not so easy to treat as the surgery is more invasive, however if you are on the heavy side loosing weight will help generally.

If you get numbness in your thumb/first finger mostly then it's more than likely carpal tunnel, if, however, it's your little finger and adjacent finger it points more to the shoulder issue. It would be a good idea to have a visit to your doctor to get to the bottom of it seeing as you have issues even when not riding your bike.

 

[Minxy]

I forgot to mention, buying a new bike always makes one feel better, besides, if it's red it will go faster as well.
Phil

... especially if it has 'go faster' stripes!

 

[Vic. Parsons.]

On my mountain bike, if I ride on tarmac roads, I get numb hands and I've worked out that it's vibration from the chunky tread pattern on mountain bike tyres, that singing sound you get on tarmac creates a high frequency vibration, similar to using an electric masonary drill for prolonged periods.
I tried changing to softer foam handlebar grips and softened the front suspension but it made no difference, the vibration still transfers through to the grips.
It may be the road surface too, but mostly the tread patern IMO.

 

[Jake Royd]

On my mountain bike, if I ride on tarmac roads, I get numb hands and I've worked out that it's vibration from the chunky tread pattern on mountain bike tyres, that singing sound you get on tarmac creates a high frequency vibration, similar to using an electric masonary drill for prolonged periods.
I tried changing to softer foam handlebar grips and softened the front suspension but it made no difference, the vibration still transfers through to the grips.
It may be the road surface too, but mostly the tread patern IMO.

Could be yes, my bike has slightly blocky tyres , my wife's much less so.

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[mapman]

I have had similar problems . A bike fit improved things slightly, but the numbness in sleeping led to visit to physio then doctor. If it is thumb and adjacent fingers then the median nerve is likely to be trapped. I had a cortisone injection in one wrist and carpal tunnel surgery on the other. Cycling is much better but sleeping still has some issues since median nerve can be trapped at points other than the wrist, right up to the vertebrae. I avoid sleeping on my side where possible. Neck pillow and firm motorhome mattress have helped. Exercises for neck: see Brad and Burt physiotherapists on YouTube for some really good exercise routines. Hope this helps. Ps I agree with rusty above re. getting bike set up right.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

We did the Tissington Trail on one day last week and Carsington water the day after.
We stayed at the CCC Ashbourne site.

Almost snap but on Sunday as all in one adding the High Peak Trail to create a nice triangular route. Enjoyed the High Peak more than Tissington but both were good. Monsal trail on Tuesday was too busy.

can’t comment on health but posture on the bike is critical and if in doubt get a professional fitting. I wear fingerless gloves the e-mob has suspension forks but fixed rear. Your 40mm travel doesn’t sound much but on flatter surfaces like rail trails should be OK. But also look at tyre pressure. Front can be a tad less than rear too soft you’ll get snakebite puncturesand rolling resistance too hard and you loose some cushioning and grip.

 

[PhilMary]

On my mountain bike, if I ride on tarmac roads, I get numb hands and I've worked out that it's vibration from the chunky tread pattern on mountain bike tyres, that singing sound you get on tarmac creates a high frequency vibration, similar to using an electric masonary drill for prolonged periods.
I tried changing to softer foam handlebar grips and softened the front suspension but it made no difference, the vibration still transfers through to the grips.
It may be the road surface too, but mostly the tread patern IMO.

I think it very unlikely that it is tyre tread causing the problem, but dropping the tyre pressure, for a mountain bike 35 -40 psi would be more than enough, should prove this for you. If you move your saddle forwards/backwards you will find a sweet spot where there is virtually no pressure on you hands. It's a case of getting the triangle ( seat, pedals, handlebars ) to balance the weight further back over your bum and hence less on your hand.
Phil

 

[clanjones]

So we ride a tandem and the stoker (person at the back) gets a lot of vibration. My wife suffered from numbness in the little and ring finger (ulna nerve).

The solution was to replace the handle bars (drops) with carbon drops, with a flat profile that increases the surface area when you grip.

It is also important to try and relax your arms and shoulders. Your elbows should be flexed, not straight and stiff. I often shake my arms, about every 45 minutes and move my hand position from drops to changers to the flat section.

Hope you find a solution.

 

[Speve]

I suffer with near identical problems to you and I know what causes it. I damaged my spine in the neck and shoulders area many years ago and sometimes nerves get trapped in the damage and cause numbness and pins and needles, I was originally worried as thought it might be heart problems but after extensive xrays and tests was told that nothing could be done and it was really a case of live with it? Nothing to do with heart

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