Bike Insurance small print

[pandas]

A piece in the Sunday Times yesterday; a couple's claim on their specific bike insurance policy was rejected because the (2) bikes were not specifically secure to an immovable object or a vehicle. There were three bikes involved, their friend's was secured to a tree and because of the lack of space theirs were subsequently secured by D locks to their friends bike. Theirs were stolen their friends was not. Insurance stated that even though one of the bikes was secured to an immovable object theirs being secured to that bike therefore was not and the claim rejected. Within the same article there was another rejected claim mentioned where a bike was stolen from the inside of a vehicle - this was eventually over turned on appeal however.
Three issues for us that I will try and clarify today;
1. due to the often lack of available bike secure points we often lock one to whatever available and then bike to bike for the second. Seems logical but maybe not?
2. We keep our bikes unlocked in our motorhome garage but strapped onto a Fiamma bike rack, the garage door is locked and alarmed, I will check that they also do not require actually locking whilst inside the garage!
3. we use a 'Growler' external alarm loop for our bikes if we are at a campsite using them for a few days and do not therefore bother to put them in our garage. As you can simply pull out the loop plug socket although it will set the alarm it presumably does not constitute a lock and therefore not insured? I would kind of get this last point so point here is to just highlight that the alarm system may not be sufficient for the thief or the insurance company. I will update when I have feedback from my insurance company - you may want to check yourselves.

 

[Lenny HB]

Interesting, we normally secure one bike to the post then the other bike to the first one. Never even considered that scenario.
Maybe it they get nicked you need to be careful with exact statement you give the insurance company.
Or carry 10kg of chains.

 

[pandas]

Interesting, we normally secure one bike to the post then the other bike to the first one. Never even considered that scenario.
Maybe it they get nicked you need to be careful with exact statement you give the insurance company.
Or carry 10kg of chains.

It might be the police that write the statement? As we always forget where we leave the bikes we always take a photo - quite sad!

 

[Pausim]

I had a problem insuring our e bikes because the values exceeded the limits for our standard John Lewis contents insurance. I looked at various bicycle policies but they all insisted on through frame locks with silver or gold standard but the Gocycle frames do not have anyway of attaching them (it has it’s own locking system but not siver/gold rated). I went back to John Lewis to see if I could raise their limits, they said no but their Specialist Home Insurance did cover higher limits. They transferred me to an entirely different department where I was offered an altogether different policy with higher limits and far fewer limitations. Expensive on the the face of it but still cheaper than a standard home policy plus 2 bicycle policies.

The wording suits motorhome use and they assured me this included storage in a locked vehicle boot or garage. The clause reads as follows:
“loss or damage from any unattended motor vehicle unless all windows are closed, all doors and other openings are securely locked shut and any property insured by this section is hidden from view in the boot, closed glove compartment, roof box or elsewhere inside the vehicle where it cannot be seen from the outside. Where an item is secured to an external carrier that is attached to the vehicle (e.g. pedal cycles or skis) where it cannot be hidden from view, it must be locked to the carrier which itself must be secured to the vehicle”
It also states the following as an exclusion:
“pedal cycles or their accessories- when left unattended away from your home unless securely locked”
It does not specify immovable objects just says securely.

I am happy with the wording of both clauses but please note this is John Lewis Specialist Home Insurance not their usual Home Insurance.

 

[pandas]

I had a problem insuring our e bikes because the values exceeded the limits for our standard John Lewis contents insurance. I looked at various bicycle policies but they all insisted on through frame locks with silver or gold standard but the Gocycle frames do not have anyway of attaching them (it has it’s own locking system but not siver/gold rated). I went back to John Lewis to see if I could raise their limits, they said no but their Specialist Home Insurance did cover higher limits. They transferred me to an entirely different department where I was offered an altogether different policy with higher limits and far fewer limitations. Expensive on the the face of it but still cheaper than a standard home policy plus 2 bicycle policies.

The wording suits motorhome use and they assured me this included storage in a locked vehicle boot or garage. The clause reads as follows:
“loss or damage from any unattended motor vehicle unless all windows are closed, all doors and other openings are securely locked shut and any property insured by this section is hidden from view in the boot, closed glove compartment, roof box or elsewhere inside the vehicle where it cannot be seen from the outside. Where an item is secured to an external carrier that is attached to the vehicle (e.g. pedal cycles or skis) where it cannot be hidden from view, it must be locked to the carrier which itself must be secured to the vehicle”
It also states the following as an exclusion:
“pedal cycles or their accessories- when left unattended away from your home unless securely locked”
It does not specify immovable objects just says securely.

I am happy with the wording of both clauses but please note this is John Lewis Specialist Home Insurance not their usual Home Insurance.

I also have the John Lewis insurance with our bikes specified. They have just confirmed via their broker that against each of the three points i made easier that the bikes have to be directly locked to an immovable object - that means not bike to bike, needs locking whilst in the garage even if the garage is locked and alarmed and if looped to a growler alarm externally they still need to be locked. Not that it concerns me but I believe if a bike rack on the back of a motorhome can be unbolted is is not a immovable object? 'Immovable' was the specific word used within the conversation.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

Insurance always strikes me as being easy to buy but possibly hard to claim on (we have been fortunate) . On that basis I always buy basic cover for everything and accept quite a bit of risk (usually a high voluntary excess no special cover for items) must be quite a few quid up now!. Are home insurance policies now requiring a declaration of any claims if so the increased insurance cost plus the weighting of future policies may wipe out a lot of the value of any claim.

 

[Pausim]

I also have the John Lewis insurance with our bikes specified. They have just confirmed via their broker that against each of the three points i made easier that the bikes have to be directly locked to an immovable object - that means not bike to bike, needs locking whilst in the garage even if the garage is locked and alarmed and if looped to a growler alarm externally they still need to be locked. Not that it concerns me but I believe if a bike rack on the back of a motorhome can be unbolted is is not a immovable object? 'Immovable' was the specific word used within the conversation.

Is yours the standard John Lewis policy or the Specialist one? The terms and wording are very different. Our original policy had limitations similar to yours but the Specialist one does not. However it costs a lot more.

 

[pandas]

you are correct our Premium cover says:

• to any pedal cycle left unattended in a public place unless the pedal
  cycle is locked to an object that cannot be moved
  
  on your cover, not covered unless:
  • - when left unattended away from your home unless securely locked
    
    Strangely it does not specify the level of security the lock has to have on either policy!
    

 

[The Wino]

Is yours the standard John Lewis policy or the Specialist one? The terms and wording are very different. Our original policy had limitations similar to yours but the Specialist one does not. However it costs a lot more.

As a matter of interest what was the difference in cost? certaily could affect whether some people buy electric bikes as its an ongoing cost

 

[pandas]

with 2 x ebikes with a total cost of £5k the premium for specifically the two bikes £55 - so pretty good. Some stand alone bike policies are circa £400.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DangerMousy]

due to the often lack of available bike secure points we often lock one to whatever available and then bike to bike for the second. Seems logical but maybe not?

We sometimes do the same but it sounds like we'd be better (from an insurance point of view at least) to link our two Lite Locks together to make one big one and just pass that around the post/stand and through both bikes. Its actually less secure overall because cut one lock and both bikes are freed, but technically speaking they'd both be locked directly to an immovable object.

 

[Lenny HB]

We sometimes do the same but it sounds like we'd be better (from an insurance point of view at least) to link our two Lite Locks together to make one big one and just pass that around the post/stand and through both bikes. Its actually less secure overall because cut one lock and both bikes are freed, but technically speaking they'd both be locked directly to an immovable object.

Just decided to get a couple of locklites when we get home to exactly that as fed up with our heavy locks.

More of a worry when the bikes are new, now ours are 3 or 4 years old probably only worth less than a grand each so we rely on our house insurance that covers then up to 1k. Wouldn't be the end of the world if insurance didn't pay up.
Look on the bright side excuse to buy a new bike.

 

[Pausim]

you are correct our Premium cover says:

• to any pedal cycle left unattended in a public place unless the pedal
  cycle is locked to an object that cannot be moved
  
  on your cover, not covered unless:
  • - when left unattended away from your home unless securely locked
    
    Strangely it does not specify the level of security the lock has to have on either policy!

The Specialist terms are part of a policy which allows for bespoke cover and has very different terms. It is underwritten by Covea instead of Royal Sun Alliance. It covers lots of things I don’t need including a Marquee up to £35,000 and change in value of art work following the death of the artist.

 

[Pausim]

As a matter of interest what was the difference in cost? certaily could affect whether some people buy electric bikes as its an ongoing cost

My renewal for this year was £512 (excluding buildings) and I think my old policy was nearer £200 in 2016. At the time I remember the overall cost of the existing home insurance plus 2 bicycle policies was about the same but the exclusions and terms on the bicycle policies wouldn’t have covered what we needed. I would have stuck with a standard home policy but the bike values were well outside their limits.

 

[pandas]

ours was slightly more than that but included buildings and contents. I have decided to buy one of these (£8) which I will just thread through both bikes to 'an object that cannot be moved' - and to each other as usual of course. Hopefully have it covered now!
https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bi...onite-kryptoflex-cable-lock-7-feet-2-2-metres

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DangerMousy]

Just decided to get a couple of locklites when we get home to exactly that as fed up with our heavy locks.

They're good locks but I wouldn't exactly call them light...they're still pretty hefty, though they probably are lighter than other gold-standard locks, and a lot lighter than a motorcycle chain of equivalent length. My main bugbear with them is that they're awkward to carry unless you have panniers (unless you're happy to velcro them to your frame somewhere). And they also aren't as flexible as I'd hoped they would be so you have to kind of squeeze them into an oval sometimes to get them open (takes the pressure off the catch so you can get it apart).

But on the positive side, its much easier to lock the bikes in more places than it was with our old mini u-locks: the LiteLoks go around almost anything. And its great to be able to connect them both together to make one big lock - very useful for when they're on the bike rack.

If you buy a set two (rather than just buying two at the same time) then they come keyed alike, which is very convenient.

 

[gus-lopez]

Maybe that is why all insurance agents here state speak to us first & we will instruct you in how to fill in the claim s forms

 

[carolyn]

Ours are covered under our Aviva house insurance but strangely electric bikes are not covered under bikes but under valuable objects! They do have to be secured to an immovable object and the bike rack on a motorhome counts. Lloyds would cover ordinary bikes up to 10 grand but wouldn't cover electric bikes at all. Insurance is a bit of a minefield.

 

[webby1]

So presumably by this stupid insurance logic you could lock your bikes to each other with proper locks as we usually do.
Then put some rubbish cable from the Poundshop round both and some "immovable object" and fulfill the requirements.......................there seems no specifications as to the quality of the locks to be used.

 

[DangerMousy]

there seems no specifications as to the quality of the locks to be used.

Some policies state what rating the locks should be, others don't. But I think that even the ones that don't mostly still specify a "suitable" lock. So in the absence of any other guidance I would refer to Sold Secure's value/rating guidance: https://cycleinsurance.wiggle.co.uk/our-cycle-insurance/insurance-approved-locks/ In the even of a claim, if you've used a lock that Sold Secure claim is appropriate for the value of your bike then the insurance company are less likely to be able to wiggle out by saying you didn't use a "suitable" lock.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[webby1]

But surely everything has been stolen.................the bikes and locks and chains.........but i can describe what kind of lock it was...................do you provide a list of what you consider suitable?

So now you want to discuss the specifications of the immovable object they were secured to ????
I suppose it was only a small tree.........

Luckily our bikes are only cheap and we probably wouldn't make a claim on the household policy,especially after paying the excess

 

[DangerMousy]

But surely everything has been stolen.................the bikes and locks and chains.........but i can describe what kind of lock it was...................do you provide a list of what you consider suitable?

From what I've heard bike thieves usually leave the broken/cut locks behind when they make their getaway, so I'd have thought the insurance company is going to get a bit suspicious if you claim they took them with them? Unless of course you can provide the receipt for said locks?

So now you want to discuss the specifications of the immovable object they were secured to ????
I suppose it was only a small tree.........

I'd guess a photo of what they were locked to would suffice (the aim is to show that whatever it was you locked your bike to is still intact and that it was the lock that was cut off). Thieves have been known to cut down small trees to steal bikes though.....

Luckily our bikes are only cheap and we probably wouldn't make a claim on the household policy,especially after paying the excess

Fair enough, though if you probably wouldn't claim then what's the point of paying for insurance? (Unless they are so cheap that there's no extra premium to include them?) On the other hand our bikes aren't cheap and I wouldn't want to have to replace them out of our own pocket so to avoid any (potential) problems in case they ever were stolen I always pay careful attention to the insurance T&Cs.