Battery maintainer with Lithium leisure battery

[burtonwisher]

I currently have a Votronic Standby charger in my Motorhome to keep the starter battery topped up from whatever charge source is charging my leisure battery, and it's always worked fine.

I'm now changing my leisure battery to LiFePO4, and the Votronic clearly states that it can't be used with Lithium anywhere in the setup.
So I'm looking to change it for an alternative unit that gives the same result and can be used with a lithium leisure battery.
The options I have on the table so far are the Vanbitz Battery Master, and the Sterling BM12123 Battery Maintainer. Both seem OK for what I want on paper.

Does anybody have any real world experiences, good or bad, using either of these devices with a lithium leisure battery?

Plus experience of any other options would be welcome too.

Thanks

 

[Googlebot]

I have the same setup and mine works?

Are you sure it doesn’t mean a lithium starter battery can’t be used?

 

[burtonwisher]

I did check that with Votronic and they said that it shouldn't be used with lithium on either side... interesting that it works fine for you though. Did you use yours with SLA before and did you notice any difference with Lithium?

 

[funflair]

I have the same setup and mine works?

Are you sure it doesn’t mean a lithium starter battery can’t be used?

If you ask Votronic they would say do not use it but I don’t know why.

I currently have a Votronic Standby charger in my Motorhome to keep the starter battery topped up from whatever charge source is charging my leisure battery, and it's always worked fine.

I'm now changing my leisure battery to LiFePO4, and the Votronic clearly states that it can't be used with Lithium anywhere in the setup.
So I'm looking to change it for an alternative unit that gives the same result and can be used with a lithium leisure battery.
The options I have on the table so far are the Vanbitz Battery Master, and the Sterling BM12123 Battery Maintainer. Both seem OK for what I want on paper.

Does anybody have any real world experiences, good or bad, using either of these devices with a lithium leisure battery?

Plus experience of any other options would be welcome too.

Thanks

I fitted VB battery master between LiFePO4 and lead acid starter battery and it does what it says on the tin,

 

[Tombola]

If you ask Votronic they would say do not use it but I don’t know why.




I fitted VB battery master between LiFePO4 and lead acid starter battery and it does what it says on the tin,

me too

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[Googlebot]

I did check that with Votronic and they said that it shouldn't be used with lithium on either side... interesting that it works fine for you though. Did you use yours with SLA before and did you notice any difference with Lithium?

It was used with lead acid before.

Its early days for the lithium but I have checked and honestly can’t see any difference?

It merrily got up to 13 volts today when the sun came out.

 

[cmcardle75]

It was used with lead acid before.

Its early days for the lithium but I have checked and honestly can’t see any difference?

It merrily got up to 13 volts today when the sun came out.

The resting voltage of LiFePO4 may be higher, meaning the current may flow to the starter battery even when the leisure battery is not being charged?

 

[Googlebot]

The resting voltage of LiFePO4 may be higher, meaning the current may flow to the starter battery even when the leisure battery is not being charged?

Just gone out to check and the voltage of the starter battery indicates that that isn’t happening?

Does anyone know for sure?

Don’t want to break anything, especially when installing a battery master will take me 5 minutes as all the cables are there.

 

[Googlebot]

The manual doesn’t mention anything I can find?

Have I missed it?

 

[Lenny HB]

The manual doesn’t mention anything I can find?

Have I missed it?

From their website.

Although yours is working OK it still maybe they consider the turn off threshold too low and it may carry on charging with no input charge to the hab battery.
Yours maybe just on the boarder line.
I know you can't use the CBE CS 2 for that reason.

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[Googlebot]

From their website.
View attachment 476420

Although yours is working OK it still maybe they consider the turn off threshold too low and it may carry on charging with no input charge to the hab battery.
Yours maybe just on the boarder line.
I know you can't use the CBE CS 2 for that reason.

Bugger!

Is it time for the battery master?

 

[andy63]

I cant see that any of the current crop of battery maintainers from any of the sources be it Stirling, votronic, van bitz etc were designed with lithium in mind specifically..
And I think I've asked before why votronic can't be used with lithium....
Whichever one you use its likely that it will stay switched on and supplying a charge to the start battery after any charging source is removed from the leisure battery if they are lithium..
If you are concerned..just check the voltage threshold..and current rating of your device you intend or have fitted...
I had a Stirling unit installed and have left it installed after fitting lithium..it remains active for much longer but hasn't caused a problem even when the sun hasn't been great....if anything the small constant load on the lithium should keep them slightly below full charge ..which isn't bad..
If I was concerned about the long term drain and lack of say solar keeping the lithiums charged say during storage I'd just pull the fuse on the battery maintainer but as I said it seems to be doing a good job of keeping the vehicle battery right even with its associated drain due to alarm etc..
Andy.

 

[funflair]

I cant see that any of the current crop of battery maintainers from any of the sources be it Stirling, votronic, van bitz etc were designed with lithium in mind specifically..
And I think I've asked before why votronic can't be used with lithium....
Whichever one you use its likely that it will stay switched on and supplying a charge to the start battery after any charging source is removed from the leisure battery if they are lithium..
If you are concerned..just check the voltage threshold..and current rating of your device you intend or have fitted...
I had a Stirling unit installed and have left it installed after fitting lithium..it remains active for much longer but hasn't caused a problem even when the sun hasn't been great....if anything the small constant load on the lithium should keep them slightly below full charge ..which isn't bad..
If I was concerned about the long term drain and lack of say solar keeping the lithiums charged say during storage I'd just pull the fuse on the battery maintainer but as I said it seems to be doing a good job of keeping the vehicle battery right even with its associated drain due to alarm etc..
Andy.

Hi Andy

Our battery master maintains the starter battery around 12.6v without any charge on the Lithium’s.

 

[andy63]

Hi Andy

Our battery master maintains the starter battery around 12.6v without any charge on the Lithium’s.

But you are not really concerned what you connect to your leisure batteries.. you have so much power available

On a serious mote..did your new van come with a start battery maintainer or have you actually fitter a van bitz battery master
Andy

 

[funflair]

But you are not really concerned what you connect to your leisure batteries.. you have so much power available

On a serious mote..did your new van come with a start battery maintainer or have you actually fitter a van bitz battery master
Andy

Actually it was a bit of a concern as the battery master has to be fitted before the battery protection isolator which is set at something just below 12v so the only low voltage protection is the BMS but I don't want to get that low, on current performance I think it will be OK for 6 months or more though.

To answer your serious question, it came with the solar charging the starter battery but no maintainer for parking in a shed without hook up so yes I fitted VB battery master

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[andy63]

Actually it was a bit of a concern as the battery master has to be fitted before the battery protection isolator which is set at something just below 12v so the only low voltage protection is the BMS

I never gave that side much thought..but until this year I never envisaged the van sitting around for any length of time so draining the batteries down using a battery master never really crossed my mind..
So you effectively have two low voltage cut outs..
One via the battery internal bms and another system one..
I'm wondering how the battery protection isolater works.. if it monitors battery voltage does it matter where the draw on the batteries is connected....
Andy
Sorry I think I see what you are saying now ..I have just woken..thats my excuse

 

[funflair]

I never gave that side much thought..but until this year I never envisaged the van sitting around for any length of time so draining the batteries down using a battery master never really crossed my mind..
So you effectively have two low voltage cut outs..
One via the battery internal bms and another system one..
I'm wondering how the battery protection isolater works.. if it monitors battery voltage does it matter where the draw on the batteries is connected....
Andy
Sorry I think I see what you are saying now ..I have just woken..thats my excuse

It is still a bit early Andy I have to isolate the 12v supply otherwise the system drain would flatten the lithiums in about 3 weeks, so the battery master has to be connected before isolation.

Yes there are two battery protection circuits essentially the BMS which I never want to hit and a Kemo battery guard which triggers the Blue sea isolator the Kemo 148a is adjustable so you can pick your own cut off voltage if required.

 

[burtonwisher]

So taking all that's been said so far it seems the important difference between the various devices comes down to when they turn on and off - either by the exact voltages or the difference in voltage between the 2 batteries.
I understand that the resting voltage of lithium is higher than that of Lead Acid, so the issue is that this can mean the device is 'on' with Lithium when it would be 'off' with Lead acid.

I checked the specs and parameters of the 4 devices that have been mentioned, and this is what I've found:

- Votronic - on when voltage difference is 0.7v or more
- Battery master - on when voltage difference is 0.8v or more
- Sterling BM12123 - on when leisure battery is 13.3V or higher, off when leisure battery is 12.8v or lower
- CBE CSB2 - on when leisure battery is 13.6v or higher, off when leisure battery is 12.5v or lower

Anybody see it differently?

What I then don't get is that apparently the Votronic doesn't work with lithium, but the Battery Master does, despite their operating parameters seeming to be almost the same? Anybody got thoughts on this? Is there something else to take into account?

Then what I need to decide is which specification will be the best fit for Lithium leisure battery and Lead acid starter.

 

[Googlebot]

So taking all that's been said so far it seems the important difference between the various devices comes down to when they turn on and off - either by the exact voltages or the difference in voltage between the 2 batteries.
I understand that the resting voltage of lithium is higher than that of Lead Acid, so the issue is that this can mean the device is 'on' with Lithium when it would be 'off' with Lead acid.

I checked the specs and parameters of the 4 devices that have been mentioned, and this is what I've found:

- Votronic - on when voltage difference is 0.7v or more
- Battery master - on when voltage difference is 0.8v or more
- Sterling BM12123 - on when leisure battery is 13.3V or higher, off when leisure battery is 12.8v or lower
- CBE CSB2 - on when leisure battery is 13.6v or higher, off when leisure battery is 12.5v or lower

Anybody see it differently?

What I then don't get is that apparently the Votronic doesn't work with lithium, but the Battery Master does, despite their operating parameters seeming to be almost the same? Anybody got thoughts on this? Is there something else to take into account?

Then what I need to decide is which specification will be the best fit for Lithium leisure battery and Lead acid starter.

I have ordered a battery master.

The Votronic only works when it’s sunny and when I turn the panels off to keep the lithium from overcharging, the can battery can go low.

 

[Pausim]

I am using a Victron Orion-TR 12/12-9 together with a 12V time clock. The Orion has a wide range of input voltages that includes those of my LiFePO4 leisure battery. The output voltage is adjustable and I have adjusted that to a voltage suitable for the lead acid battery voltage. The time clock is connected to the Orion‘s remote switch connection.

Once a day the time clock turns the Orion on and it charges the engine battery from the leisure battery for a short time. When the leisure battery needs recharging my Efoy cuts in but that is a another story, others use solar.

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[rolivier]

Hi there, I wonder if I could fit a leisure battery having these measurements: L355xW180xH245. I would like to order a Lifepo4 300Ah bat under the seat in a Adria Twin Plus 600 2021. Is 355mm too long and 245mm too high to fit under the passenger seat?
We can fit up to 2 batteries under the seat. I want to place a lithium battery and a 230v inverter.
Thanks in advance.
Roger.

 

[cmcardle75]

Hi there, I wonder if I could fit a leisure battery having these measurements: L355xW180xH245. I would like to order a Lifepo4 300Ah bat under the seat in a Adria Twin Plus 600 2021. Is 355mm too long and 245mm too high to fit under the passenger seat?
We can fit up to 2 batteries under the seat. I want to place a lithium battery and a 230v inverter.
Thanks in advance.
Roger.

I think you'll need to crawl under the seat with a tape measure.

 

[zofo]

Hi there, I wonder if I could fit a leisure battery having these measurements: L355xW180xH245. I would like to order a Lifepo4 300Ah bat under the seat in a Adria Twin Plus 600 2021. Is 355mm too long and 245mm too high to fit under the passenger seat?
We can fit up to 2 batteries under the seat. I want to place a lithium battery and a 230v inverter.
Thanks in advance.
Roger.

I am putting a Victron 200AH LiFeP04 into my Adria Twin SLT600 2017. The dimensions of my existing lead acid battery is 353mm long 175mm wide and 190mm high. The new one is 321 long X 152 wide X 237 high, there is plenty of space for this, but it probably would be best to measure your space. I put the inverter under the drivers seat as I had to add a new charger, BMS and B2B charger.

 

[Googlebot]

Don’t forget they can go on their side.

 

[pete4x4]

My Battery master didnt work with Lithium, the 13.2v of the lithium kept the starter battery at 12.4 when there was no sun so in storage it was struggling and I wanted a higher voltgage maintaing the starter. My Lithium float is 13.2v
I use Ablemail AMT-12 battery maintainer works well for me, keeps the starter at 12.7 min and will turn off is the leisure battery gets too low.

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[Hoovie]

I cant see that any of the current crop of battery maintainers from any of the sources be it Stirling, votronic, van bitz etc were designed with lithium in mind specifically.....

The Ablemail AMT-12 is a programmable Battery Maintainer that can be set to various combinations - Smart Alternator yes or no, and to Lead-Acid OR Lithium. I think it is actually the only maintainer that HAS been designed from day 1 to be Lithium aware.

AMT12-2 Trickle Charger charges Vehicle Battery from Leisure Battery with Solar Charger /Mains Hookup | Ablemail Electronics

The AMT12-2 has many names Trickle Charger, Battery Maintainer, Battery Saver, Reverse Charger, Top Up Charger, Battery Equaliser, but its purpose is to keep a Source / Vehicle Battery charged & protected from damage during prolonged periods of Vehicle, Boat & Motorhome inactivity or storage...

ablemail.co.uk

(I've programmed and supplied a number for Lithium setups)

 

[burtonwisher]

The Ablemail device wasn't on my radar before, but it does look good, and I like the lithium settings.
I did buy a Sterling BM12123 which I was planning to install this weekend, but I may have a look at the Ablemail now to see which one works closer to what I want in my system.

 

[Doobray]

The Ablemail AMT-12 is a programmable Battery Maintainer that can be set to various combinations - Smart Alternator yes or no, and to Lead-Acid OR Lithium. I think it is actually the only maintainer that HAS been designed from day 1 to be Lithium aware.

AMT12-2 Trickle Charger charges Vehicle Battery from Leisure Battery with Solar Charger /Mains Hookup | Ablemail Electronics

The AMT12-2 has many names Trickle Charger, Battery Maintainer, Battery Saver, Reverse Charger, Top Up Charger, Battery Equaliser, but its purpose is to keep a Source / Vehicle Battery charged & protected from damage during prolonged periods of Vehicle, Boat & Motorhome inactivity or storage...

ablemail.co.uk

(I've programmed and supplied a number for Lithium setups)

Just purchased one do you have a simple programming guide. The one on the site is a bit double dutch

 

[Hoovie]

Just purchased one do you have a simple programming guide. The one on the site is a bit double dutch

It is something I have been meaning to do actually.
What I can confirm is that when the guide is followed, it does do exactly what the guide says in terms of changing the settings, but I agree it could be worded better.

 

[Raul]

I had a look at the description and specs. Can the discharge floor be changed from 11,5v to 12v ?

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