Battery issues (2-ish)

[Marauder]

Hello Funsters,
I just upgraded from a 2002 Autosleepers Symbol to a much more electrically sophisticated 2008 Burstner T620 Travel Van. Burstner has a 95Ah Lucas LPO19 as starter batt and 2x Duracell Advance Banner 100Ah as leisure Batts, with EBL99 (rocker switch version) controller.

first: starting turnover was slow, so I took Starter Batt (LPO19) home, 16 hr charge: green light on charger indicated 'full'. Voltage 12.7
Put battery back on vehicle. Voltage fell from 12.7 - 12.5 in first 2 days, down to 12.3 by fourth day. Bustner has more electrics to drain the Batt whilst standing but this seems excesssive to me, even allowing for alarm & clock etc. The AS Symbol would happily stand for 6 weeks then start no problem. ( I never had cause to check the voltage)

would welcome perspective from you wizened old-timers !

second: A and N told me EBL99 can only charge 180Ah - these3 Batts clearly exceed that rating. But I have receipts in service history for 2x 100Ah Duracell dating from 2014, so clearly been in service that long without causing issues. Is this disparity likely to be a problem ?

Thanks

Steve

 

[Bessy765]

Your 2002 Autosleepers electrics are a world apart from your Burstner. On our Burstner the system has and 18 amp charger this is to the leisure batteries. The engine batt only gets a trickle. If off hook up with hab electrics off, the starter battery drops down as we keep ours in my garage so no help from solar. By three weeks it will not start the engine.

 

[Lenny HB]

Your starter battery is knackered it should hold a charge enough to start the van for at least 3 weeks.

second: A and N told me EBL99 can only charge 180Ah - these3 Batts clearly exceed that rating. But I have receipts in service history for 2x 100Ah Duracell dating from 2014, so clearly been in service that long without causing issues. Is this disparity likely to be a problem?

Schaudt (EBL manufacturer) recommends a max battery capacity of 180 ah for the 18 amp charger which includes the starter battery. I don't agree with the last bit as the starter battery only gets a 2 amp trickle charge from the EBL.

If you have a second leisure battery factory fitted they will always fit the 18 amp auxiliary charger bringing the charge rate up to 36 amps.

In my van I have 3 x 78ah (234ah) Gel batteries with the basic 18 amp charger no problems or with my last two vans with an additional battery.
It depends on how you use your batteries if you constantly run them low before recharging via the EBL there is a chance you will overload it. In my case 90% of the charging is done from my 300 watts of solar so the batteries are rarely charged by the EBL.

 

[cyberyacht]

Sounds like your starter battery is knackered. You could fit a battery master which will maintain the engine battery charge from your hab batteries. You don't mention solar which is the obvious solution to maintaining batteries.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Your starter batter should be more than 12.7 volts after a charge and would drop down to that when installed and if you put your headlights on for 10 mins and then switched off it should read 12 .7 v then,or thereabouts

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[autorouter]

and 2x Duracell Advance Banner 100Ah as leisure Batts,

Duracell Advanced Banner is a battery brand, not a battery type. They make a very wide range of batteries -flooded, AGM, traction etc. They delight in naming them after various Bulls - Starting Bull, Running Bull etc. What type are yours?

first: starting turnover was slow, so I took Starter Batt (LPO19) home, 16 hr charge: green light on charger indicated 'full'. Voltage 12.7
Put battery back on vehicle. Voltage fell from 12.7 - 12.5 in first 2 days, down to 12.3 by fourth day.

Batteries fail in different ways. One common failure mode is, the battery charges Ok up to its normal voltage, but only has a fraction of its capacity, so a 95Ah battery might only have a capacity of 40 or 50Ah. Also the internal leakage can increase. Because it's a starter battery, a standard starter battery test, as done by any garage, or Halfords, will tell you the state of deterioration. That test doesn't test a leisure battery's capacity, but it's a good test for a starter battery. If it passes the test, but still loses charge when connected up, then at least you know where the problem is.

 

[Marauder]

If you have a second leisure battery factory fitted they will always fit the 18 amp auxiliary charger bringing the charge rate up to 36 amps.

Thanks Lenny, (et al) for very useful info. My second leisure batt seems retro fitted - bit shoddy & not in a plastic bin like the other one. Is there an easy way to see if I have the 18A charger ?

I will order new starter batt monday. Sounds like this is my first step. Alpha batts are recommending this:
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

they think I need heavy duty coz I'm rarely ever on a hook-up. (Not sure if they meant it for Leisure Batt or starter Batt.)

But AandN recommend the powerframe architecture:

12v 95AH Varta LED95 EFB Professional Leisure Battery (930095085) (LFD90) (N/A) - Alpha Batteries

WHY VARTA® PROFESSIONAL DUAL PURPOSE BATTERIES? Powered by Johnson Controls Power Solutions, VARTA® Professional Dual Purpose batteries are trusted by customers globally. […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

They are both labelled 'leisure battery' so I'm not sure which / if they're suitable as Starter Batt.

I have a 120w PV panel and PWM controller from SunStore (from a recommendation on MHF - Perhaps even by Lenny) earlier this year I think . I go to Scotland every spring & autumn, never on campsites (but always legitimate invitations) occasionally an extension lead thro a friends window !

The 120w was useful direct to AS Symbol Leisure Batt in spring 2021, But still I struggled to keep the Erspacher heater running. I need to get serious about it now and understand how to set it up for the overwinter. Van is on a storage facility with no mains power, and I will need to protect investment in the new Starter Batt, whilst avoiding potentially expensive damage to the Electroblok unit.

So it seems I will need some split PV controller device, as even if I put the PV to front conns of EBL99, it won't feed the Start Batt seemingly ? Aire & Sun suggest using LRS1218 controller, but apparently it is safe to bypass only certain of the EBL units direct to the batteries.

I am gaining insight gradually, but it's all a bit smoke and mirrors at the moment . . . . .

Steve

 

[autorouter]

Is there an easy way to see if I have the 18A charger ?

If you're asking about the internal charger, on the EBL front panel, near the 'EBL99' label, you can see:
IUoU = three stage smart charger (bulk, absorption, float)
12V 18A = charger output spec. The symbol between them (a solid line above a dotted line) means DC.
Pb-Akku > 55Ah = lead battery, greater than 55Ah, ie don't use a battery less than 55Ah.

That ties in with the internal charger fuse of 20A, labelled 'Internes Lademodul'

If the question is about whether you have the extra 18A auxiliary charger, that will be connected to the EBL 2-way connector (BL7) labelled 'Zus Lader'. Also there will be a 20A fuse in the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' fuse slot. The charger will be labelled something like 'LAS 1218'. It's the same charger as the internal charger, but in its own separate box

 

[autorouter]

I will order new starter batt monday. Sounds like this is my first step. Alpha batts are recommending this:
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

they think I need heavy duty coz I'm rarely ever on a hook-up. (Not sure if they meant it for Leisure Batt or starter Batt.)

Sorry, I think there's a misunderstanding somewhere. A starter battery is designed to provide a short burst of very heavy current, for a few seconds, or maybe a minute or so on a bad day. For that it needs a Cold Cranking Amps specification, but there's no mention of that in the spec sheet. However the LFD 90 has a CCA spec of 800A.

I have a Varta LFD90 as a starter battery for my Hymer (Fiat 2.8 engine) and have had no problems at all with it, definitely recommended.

 

[Marauder]

If you're asking about the internal charger, on the EBL front panel, near the 'EBL99' label, you can see:
IUoU = three stage smart charger (bulk, absorption, float)
12V 18A = charger output spec. The symbol between them (a solid line above a dotted line) means DC.
Pb-Akku > 55Ah = lead battery, greater than 55Ah, ie don't use a battery less than 55Ah.

That ties in with the internal charger fuse of 20A, labelled 'Internes Lademodul'

If the question is about whether you have the extra 18A auxiliary charger, that will be connected to the EBL 2-way connector (BL7) labelled 'Zus Lader'. Also there will be a 20A fuse in the 'Zusatz Ladegerat' fuse slot. The charger will be labelled something like 'LAS 1218'. It's the same charger as the internal charger, but in its own separate box

Thanks AutoRouter,
I will go with the LFD90.

Attached photos of my box. There is nothing in BL7, but there is a box 'AD-01'. I don't know what that's for. There is another block near + term of batt, but I am guessing that is just fuses ?

this raises thoughts of spare EBL fuses - I have none. Anyone suggest a useful range to carry pls ?

Steve

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[autorouter]

The AD-01 is a box that allows devices to be controlled by various vehicle signals. Four wires connect to the vehicle system: lighting on/off, the ignition, the D+, and heating. Also the starter battery positive and negative. These allow extra lights, ignition-controlled devices or D+ devices to be connected and controlled. They are specific to Fiat, there is an AD-02 with similar functions for Mercedes.

There is nothing in BL7,

Looks like there's no extra charger then.

If you're changing the starter battery (sorry if you already know this) you need to remove the red plastic thing with two screws ( top right) - this attaches the fuse block to the battery casing to keep it steady. There'll be two holes in the new battery to fix it back again.

this raises thoughts of spare EBL fuses - I have none. Anyone suggest a useful range to carry pls ?

That big red fuse near the starter battery might be difficult to find if it blows. It's a Maxi fuse. There's a similar one near the leisure battery