Avtex AMR985 alternative router (1 Viewer)

[terryr]

We have just bought a 2016 Autosleeper Warwick XL. The previous owner has remover the Avtex AMR985 modem but left the aerial etc. I can't appear to be able to buy just the modem any suggestions to an alternative unit which will plug into the aerials and preferably into the holder which was also left.

 

[starquake]

The questions for us are is the MU5001 worth the extra money and does it perform, at least, as well as the 286D on current 4g network?

In general it'll peform well, but it does miss one band which Three use for additional downlink to my reading of the spec (MU5001). But the towers that band is on, likely also will have 5g too, as they will have to increase the towers "feed" bandiwdth to support the band 30 downlink in most cases. If spending all that money, why not put a 5g cell in... given in general it won't need many new antenna on roof.

However for non Three networks it'll make little, if any difference. EE in particular would perform identically on MU5001 to a 286D with same antenna (or should), and woudl do "better" in a 5g area.

 

[Gellyneck]

In general it'll peform well, but it does miss one band which Three use for additional downlink to my reading of the spec (MU5001). But the towers that band is on, likely also will have 5g too, as they will have to increase the towers "feed" bandiwdth to support the band 30 downlink in most cases. If spending all that money, why not put a 5g cell in... given in general it won't need many new antenna on roof.

However for non Three networks it'll make little, if any difference. EE in particular would perform identically on MU5001 to a 286D with same antenna (or should), and woudl do "better" in a 5g area.

Many thanks for info. We'll probably be putting a Smarty data only sim in it when our EE 120Gb / 12 month one expires.

 

[weemalkie]

Don’t forget it doesn’t have to be in the same cupboard where the TV aerial is. I put mine in there, with the antenna in the next space along, above the fridge and it’s turned out fine but it could go in any of the cupboards that may result in a better roof mount position. You just need access to a 12v supply.
Very good choice of router and antenna I’d say, though I went with the Panorama antenna from Co Star.



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Many thanks for your reply and photos. Just for clarity I take it that in the top photo its the TV aerial coming through the roof and not the antenna.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Many thanks for your reply and photos. Just for clarity I take it that in the top photo its the TV aerial coming through the roof and not the antenna.

Yes, the antenna is about 18 inches further back above the next cupboard.

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[weemalkie]

Many thanks again

 

[weemalkie]

After much deliberation I think I'm going to take your advice Starquake. Probably OTT for my needs but I reckon the system will be future proof for as long as I'll need it! So its the RUT X50 with the Pointing Mimo -3 -V2 -15.
As usual great input both technical and equipment wise from the Funsters. Many thanks once more.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

After much deliberation I think I'm going to take your advice Starquake. Probably OTT for my needs but I reckon the system will be future proof for as long as I'll need it! So its the RUT X50 with the Pointing Mimo -3 -V2 -15.
As usual great input both technical and equipment wise from the Funsters. Many thanks once more.

Won’t you need the 17 for the 4x4 mobile 2x2 WiFi RUTX50?
The 15 only has 2x2 mobile.

 

[weemalkie]

Won’t you need the 17 for the 4x4 mobile 2x2 WiFi RUTX50?
The 15 only has 2x2 mobile.

Im thinking technically yes but from a practical point of view not necessarily. My thinking was to buy a G5 router which would future prove my system. I am of course assuming that the 15 will give me all the inputs I require.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Im thinking technically yes but from a practical point of view not necessarily. My thinking was to buy a G5 router which would future prove my system. I am of course assuming that the 15 will give me all the inputs I require.

The 15 has two mobile aerials in it and two aerial cables (2x2 LTE/mobile mimo), the RUTX50 router has four mobile aerial connections to take four aerial leads of the 17 (4x4 LTE/mobile mimo)
Both 15 and 17 have two WiFi aerials and two WiFi cables that matches the RUTX50.
Why use the 15 with only two mobile aerials if you’re going to use the RUTX50 that has connections for four.
Once the antenna is stuck to the roof it’s not easy to get off again, this is why I’ve decided on the RUTX11 because it matches the Panorama 2x2 mobile 2x2 WiFi antenna I fitted a couple of years ago.
Otherwise I would have bought the RUTX50 and changed the antenna for a 4x4 mobile 2x2 WiFi one, either Panorama or Poynting.
If you do get the RUTX50 and a Poynting antenna I understand there’s a 10% discount at Solwise by using the ExploreVan UK code (EXPLOREVAN) which is on their YouTube video about the RUTX50.

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[weemalkie]

The 15 has two mobile aerials in it and two aerial cables (2x2 LTE/mobile mimo), the RUTX50 router has four mobile aerial connections to take four aerial leads of the 17 (4x4 LTE/mobile mimo)
Both 15 and 17 have two WiFi aerials and two WiFi cables that matches the RUTX50.
Why use the 15 with only two mobile aerials if you’re going to use the RUTX50 that has connections for four.
Once the antenna is stuck to the roof it’s not easy to get off again, this is why I’ve decided on the RUTX11 because it matches the Panorama 2x2 mobile 2x2 WiFi antenna I fitted a couple of years ago.
Otherwise I would have bought the RUTX50 and changed the antenna for a 4x4 mobile 2x2 WiFi one, either Panorama or Poynting.
If you do get the RUTX50 and a Poynting antenna I understand there’s a 10% discount at Solwise by using the ExploreVan UK code (EXPLOREVAN) which is on their YouTube video about the RUTX50.

Yeh probably correct. To be honest there was a price issue but going to go for the 17 now as I should have from the beginning. Thats the problem with not being technically savvy. Wasn't aware of the discount from Solwise - I'll have a look at that as well. Cheers

 

[weemalkie]

You need a seperate hole as mentioned, and the RUTX11 is a okay choice (I'd personally reccomend you look at RUTX50 since new they are cat20 for about £50 more from wholesalers at moment (and cover 5g too), and the X11 is "cat6" and cat6 is okay, but still not really high end , just make sure it's at least 1m away from the TV antenna (and this is even more important if you have a omni directional TV antenna instead of one you aim). RUTX50 was £360 and X11 is £300 from one UK wholesaler I checked..., so £60 for around 5-6x the peak speed may be worth it and more futureproof). I've not personally used these, but on the specsheet I would be happy to say both beat a cat4 device .. just the cat6 X11 is only 2 times quicker than cat4 (in ideal circumstances) where the X50 could be many times faster as it supports the higher level encoding style allowing "more" data per timeslot in effect if the tower is also > cat 12, most are these days. In context cat6 max downlink performance is 300Mbit, cat 20 is over 1Gbit. I have speedtests of > 1G on cat20 in a UK city (Hull on Three), but not in my van as thats only cat12 ! Remember you never achieve the peak theoritical rate in reality, as it depends how busy a cell is, but the higher the category the higher the real work speeds.

As said the reasons are interference as TV uses (in brief) 500-700mhz region. Three and I think Vodafones band 28 is 700-800, then all the providers pretty much have band 20 at 800-900. Doesn't take a genius to understand thats rather close in radio terms, and band 28 is released old TV analogue channels in summary.

If you know anything about radio, it's when you transmit it tends to bleed a bit, so you will interrupt your tv viewing if it's any nearer than 1metre and the antenna decides to use thse bands. Theres near 0 interfernce risk on band 3, 1, or any 5g band, as these are too high frequency to be near any interference. The issue is rurally again, the most likely bands you will use if on Three, Voda or EE, is likely right next to the TV band. Voda or O2 sims obviously use 900mhz too (old 2g band) for 4g now, which also does tend to interfere with other devices if you remember the old 2g pulses heard on a tv near a phone back in day. So in effect if you use in UK if the antenna is nearer than a metre, you risk interference. You won't get interference IN the van unless you use a devices internal antenna in effect as the coax will take the signal to outside without bleed.

If I didn't have a solar panel above the other side of van we would have placed it on opposite side of van to the TV stuff as an idea of what we didn't do...

The cables on the antenna are usually (I've not seen Poyntings packaging) all routed down the single drilled hole which is in itself shielded, so theres no risk of interference INSIDE the van really as long, as the tube the coax cables come down from antenna act as a semi faraday cage to prevent the actual signal causing issues pre arrival at the RUT device (it's inside coax in effect, which shields it). The issue is when you transmit, obviously if you are too near the TV side it may pick it up. If you have a choice on where the antenna goes basically place it in a different cupboard to TV... as said you just need a 12V feed. Either run one yourself and hide behind the trunking in the van (usually above most cupboards in most mohos), or use exisitng.

If I was doing a "budget" install I'd use a Poynting antenna and one of the ZTE286's mentioned earlier, as they are CAT12 and about £40 for a router (second hand, but loads of unlocked ones on the market), but do require you to make a dc-dc supply at 12v for them as I believe it needs a regulated supply -> that said, you can get the bits to do that for another £10 from various online places (it's literally just a 12v buck converter regulator to stablise the 12V). The downside is the install is a lot larger and messier in the locker as the 286 isn't as small as a RUT device (and the RUT doesn't need a regulated supply either).

Further to your advice regarding TV interference I've had a good look at where I could best mount my aerial and think it would be best on the other side of the roof from the TV where there is free space. However - there's always a however - the best position for the router is inside a cupboard above the fridge which has access to 12V and 240v supply. As the aerial comes with 2M tails I'm thinking this would be a reasonable solution. My question is - is there a suitable sealable fitting which would allow me to drill through the roof for the cable access only and have the cable between the aerial and router position in cable conduit on the roof? Or is that simply not a good idea??

 

[starquake]

Further to your advice regarding TV interference I've had a good look at where I could best mount my aerial and think it would be best on the other side of the roof from the TV where there is free space. However - there's always a however - the best position for the router is inside a cupboard above the fridge which has access to 12V and 240v supply. As the aerial comes with 2M tails I'm thinking this would be a reasonable solution. My question is - is there a suitable sealable fitting which would allow me to drill through the roof for the cable access only and have the cable between the aerial and router position in cable conduit on the roof? Or is that simply not a good idea??

Not a good idea. You better running the coax from aerial inside the van in the conduit between roof and inside using the weather seal they reccomend as it’s direct from aerial down then across to router inside. Otherwise the roof bit won’t be weather sealed - it’s got a sika like adhesive and I doubt they’d guarantee against leaks if you don’t follow the standard install.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Further to your advice regarding TV interference I've had a good look at where I could best mount my aerial and think it would be best on the other side of the roof from the TV where there is free space. However - there's always a however - the best position for the router is inside a cupboard above the fridge which has access to 12V and 240v supply. As the aerial comes with 2M tails I'm thinking this would be a reasonable solution. My question is - is there a suitable sealable fitting which would allow me to drill through the roof for the cable access only and have the cable between the aerial and router position in cable conduit on the roof? Or is that simply not a good idea??

I would rather have the coax leads from the antenna straight down through the roof into the van from under the antenna, better sealing/tidier roof, with the router sited within easy reach of the leads.
It’s a lot easier to run a 12v two core wire inside the van, to the router from wherever you can get access to a 12v supply.

 

[starquake]

I would rather have the coax leads from the antenna straight down through the roof into the van from under the antenna, better sealing/tidier roof, with the router sited within easy reach of the leads.
It’s a lot easier to run a 12v two core wire inside the van, to the router from wherever you can get access to a 12v supply.

Exactly. And you can get decent gauge 2 core wire to do this near anywhere as a routers load will be sub 3 amp so you don’t even need thick wire. Where routing the coax you sending 6 wires the other way. Power is basically the easiest thing to wire in a van.

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[weemalkie]

Exactly. And you can get decent gauge 2 core wire to do this near anywhere as a routers load will be sub 3 amp so you don’t even need thick wire. Where routing the coax you sending 6 wires the other way. Power is basically the easiest thing to wire in a van.

I appreciate what everyone is saying and yes having the hole under the aerial is best but my thinking is based on the fact that there is 2M of co ax to deal with inside the van. Not so easy to hide! Unless I can have the tails shortened by the supplier of course. Or is it a simple diy job.?? Don’t mind having a go at that if it’s doable.

 

[starquake]

I appreciate what everyone is saying and yes having the hole under the aerial is best but my thinking is based on the fact that there is 2M of co ax to deal with inside the van. Not so easy to hide! Unless I can have the tails shortened by the supplier of course. Or is it a simple diy job.?? Don’t mind having a go at that if it’s doable.

Just coil them behind the router, suspect thats what most do. The unit I have fashioned a little box which teh router is velcroes to to hide it. They are thin coax, ts9 type, so it's not like TV cable at 2m, it's FAR smaller, neater to coil.

Well unless you fancy cutting and recrimping the connectors at least it's the neatest option (and risking signal loss in progress).

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I appreciate what everyone is saying and yes having the hole under the aerial is best but my thinking is based on the fact that there is 2M of co ax to deal with inside the van. Not so easy to hide! Unless I can have the tails shortened by the supplier of course. Or is it a simple diy job.?? Don’t mind having a go at that if it’s doable.

I think your earlier suggestion of the cupboard above the fridge sounds the best option if there is a clear space on the roof, flat and no seams/joints. I wouldn’t be too concerned about the locality to the TV aerial, mine is only about 18+” away and we’ve never had any problem.
Coiling up two metres of ts9 coax will be fine secured together with cable ties.
Drilling a hole in the roof is a buttock clenching experience though.
Measuring and checking several times before drilling a 4mm pilot hole up from the inside, then a coring bit from the top.
Good luck with it all, I’m sure you’ll do a good job.

 

[weemalkie]

Hi Guys, Router and aerial arrived and checked out. Looking great. I haven't finalised the mounting position yet but will be following the advice already provided.
From my point of view I have located a very easily accessible 12V supply. Its the supply to the TV which comes from the Schaudt EBL on a 10 amp fuse. I'm thinking I should have a 5amp fuse or similar on the positive to the RUTX50. Any thoughts appreciated. Cheers.

 

[starquake]

RUTX50 max draw is 18W if I read the spec sheet right, so under 2A. I'd 3A fuse it, given you can't easily get a 2A fuse, and 1A fuse is too small or rather when you read the test results bang on the max draw at 5g peak use. Most of time it'll idle at 0.2A ish.

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[tinkertaylor]

Little experiment, I have a m5001 on the 3 network and my phone (s23) also on the 3 network. I have taken internet speed readings, one using the router m5001 and the other the mobile network on my phone, switched the WiFi connection to the m5001 off on the phone.

The m5001 and phone are in the same locations and no external antennas are fitted to the router.

The phone is much faster.....

 

[starquake]

Little experiment, I have a m5001 on the 3 network and my phone (s23) also on the 3 network. I have taken internet speed readings, one using the router m5001 and the other the mobile network on my phone, switched the WiFi connection to the m5001 off on the phone.

The m5001 and phone are in the same locations and no external antennas are fitted to the router.

The phone is much faster.....

With those speeds have you checked your phones wifi is using 5 gigahertz, you may need to enable the 5ghz ssid on the 5001 -> the speed you getting there is about the max you can get on 2.4ghz wifi you see. (2.4ghz wifi despite claims tops out at 70-80Mbit). If you use a laptop on your wifi you can see that its using 5ghz WIFI signal (which will allow up to 500Mbit performance). If you not using 5ghz wifi, thats your answer.

But in general if you in "good" signal, ie, max, the phone will have a higher functional level on the network so thats not unexpected. Roof antenna improve things in bad signal, if you have 200Mbit on a phone they add "little" on a van wifi, in fact with their higher gain can make things worse with interference from adjacent cells.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Little experiment, I have a m5001 on the 3 network and my phone (s23) also on the 3 network. I have taken internet speed readings, one using the router m5001 and the other the mobile network on my phone, switched the WiFi connection to the m5001 off on the phone.

The m5001 and phone are in the same locations and no external antennas are fitted to the router.

The phone is much faster.....



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My little experiment happened at the storage site when I fitted my new router (Teltonika RUTX11 4G on EE sim), in conjunction with the existing Panorama antenna.
Our storage site is in a very bad signal area and as usual whilst there my phone (iphone11 4G on EE) was dead, no call ability and no data.
On completion of the install I switched it on and waited the minute or so while it set up and ping ping ping, what’s app messages and emails that had come during the time I was there, one an half hours or so. I answered and received replies as good as being at home, plus checked YouTube would work.
No idea about speeds up or down, I just know I had nothing and then a perfectly good connection through the router/antenna.
It proved to me beyond any doubt the value of a decent router/antenna set up.

 

[starquake]

My little experiment happened at the storage site when I fitted my new router (Teltonika RUTX11 4G on EE sim), in conjunction with the existing Panorama antenna.
Our storage site is in a very bad signal area and as usual whilst there my phone (iphone11 4G on EE) was dead, no call ability and no data.
On completion of the install I switched it on and waited the minute or so while it set up and ping ping ping, what’s app messages and emails that had come during the time I was there, one an half hours or so. I answered and received replies as good being at home, plus checked YouTube would work.
No idea about speeds up or down, I just know I had nothing and then a perfectly good connection through the router/antenna.

Yeah, had to be said, our friends who were at clubfest with us last weekend had same experience. No-ones phone was working, it was a joke even mentioned before one of the headliners by the CAMC president. Didn't matter which network you were on, no data... all weekend.

However, when we were back at our vans data worked again on our antenna, allowing us to read the electronic newspapers each morning before heading in. When I diagnosed it with cellmapper, the phones were using band 20 mostly or band 3 -> where the roof antenna had a band3+32 bond setup (you can see this via the advanced/detail screen on a ZTE), and the band 32 coverage was 20mhz so "very wide". It was good enough to support 2 devices simultanously watching video which is all we needed. I had a 40Mbit speedtest at same time the phone wouldn't work at all.

Roof antenna really don't matter if you getting 200Mbit on a handset. It's when your handset doesn't work they come into their own.

 

[weemalkie]

RUTX50 max draw is 18W if I read the spec sheet right, so under 2A. I'd 3A fuse it, given you can't easily get a 2A fuse, and 1A fuse is too small or rather when you read the test results bang on the max draw at 5g peak use. Most of time it'll idle at 0.2A ish.

Aye it was only after I had removed the 3 pin plug I realised just how thin the power wires were. 5amp too much. Will use 3 amp as suggested. Thanks again. That’s the weekend sorted out

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[tinkertaylor]

While a roof antenna makes a difference a phone in a waterproof box stuck on pole above the van is just as affective it not more so. Phone tech is just miles ahead of router tech, even the m5001 is 3 years old plus.

Obviously you need a spare phone but a spare phone is cheaper than an m5001. I have both. My home network is supplied via a m5001.

The network used was 5ghz BTW.

 

[matbic]

The cables on the antenna are usually (I've not seen Poyntings packaging) all routed down the single drilled hole which is in itself shielded, so theres no risk of interference

Poyntings MIMO antennas give you the option of running the wires through a hole in the bottom or out of the side.

Also, it’s most important to keep the cables between modem/router and antenna as short as possible and do not use any extension cables.

 

[matbic]

I appreciate what everyone is saying and yes having the hole under the aerial is best but my thinking is based on the fact that there is 2M of co ax to deal with inside the van. Not so easy to hide! Unless I can have the tails shortened by the supplier of course. Or is it a simple diy job.?? Don’t mind having a go at that if it’s doable.

DIY making of good connections is very tricky and requires special crimp tools. Just coil up the excess!

 

[Gellyneck]

While a roof antenna makes a difference a phone in a waterproof box stuck on pole above the van is just as affective it not more so. Phone tech is just miles ahead of router tech, even the m5001 is 3 years old plus.

Obviously you need a spare phone but a spare phone is cheaper than an m5001. I have both. My home network is supplied via a m5001.

The network used was 5ghz BTW.

Suppose it does depend on the model of 5g phone but we got a "refurbished" M5001 for £149 a couple of weeks back and, for us, the hassle of sticking a mobile in a plastic box, attaching it and raising it on a pole to then have to take it down again to recharge it is more bother than it's worth for us.

 

[starquake]

While a roof antenna makes a difference a phone in a waterproof box stuck on pole above the van is just as affective it not more so. Phone tech is just miles ahead of router tech, even the m5001 is 3 years old plus.

Obviously you need a spare phone but a spare phone is cheaper than an m5001. I have both. My home network is supplied via a m5001.

The network used was 5ghz BTW.

ANyone knowing radio knows thats rubbish.

Why do us hams have big antennas? Well because big antennas on roofs are better as you get more gain. Yes putting a phone on a box in air fixes the elevation problem however it doesn't fix the small realtive gain on phone antennas versus the 10-18dbi you get on a proper roof antenna.

Heres a phone antenna example:

For most bands that 6dbi on low bands (B20, B28), versus the 6-10dbi a roof antena gives, and lower gain still 3dbi on higher bands (B3 upwards) where again the roof antenna does "better" (usually higher bands are better).. And the iphone has particularly good antenna gain when compared with some android models. At the 1800 that Three/EE use for majority of their cells, they have one antenna with 7dbi gain, and the rest with 3. You cannot argue a device doing 9-10dbi on all bands is worse as it is materially twice as good.

I mean I can argue with actual facts, or the simple fact a phone on roof last weekend didn't work, that is EXACTLY how our friends usually roll, and they asked for access to our wifi as their phones were not working AT ALL. They even tried on their 9 metre flagpole in a bag, and again no signal. Their van was NEXT to ours...

If you have lower gain, you are forced to use nearer cell towers (rather than letting the network hand you off to a less busy, but further away cell). It was notable (you can tell the cell tower on advanced diags) I was also using a further away tower.

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[weemalkie]

DIY making of good connections is very tricky and requires special crimp tools. Just coil up the excess!

Yeh that’s what I’m going to do cheers