Annecy to Italy

wp1234

wp1234

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Just hoping the Italian tour experts on here you could give me a rough idea of the route they would take to enter Italy from Lake Annecy .
( we are booked for a week there )
My thoughts are to head for the Mont Blanc tunnel pay the £ and drop into the Aosta valley before heading for the Italian Lakes etc.The alternative as far as I can see is to Head for the Great St Bernard Pass and again drop into the Aosta valley.

Any thoughts much appreciated👍
 
If you pop up to Chamonix and follow the road without a tunnel you will have a truely uninspiring drive for an hour or so until you get to start popping down to Martigny and I cant remember if it is "Vignette required" beyond Martigny or not.
Should you go this way it is the Grand St Bernard pass or the Original Italian Job filming. You get a nice view going to Aosta this way
 
Definitely the Great St Bernard pass. (y)
I’ve done it loads of times and will again. Make sure you do the real top bit and not the tunnel.
8F3BF3DC-770C-4DB6-A583-7E6B7C645AF1.jpeg
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Easier in some ways, depending on what part of Italy you re heading, for is Annency- Mondane - and then either the Frejus Tunnel or the Col du Mont Cenis, and then down to Turin.
We have done Chamonix and Frejus many times. They both work well.
But we do like the Col du Mont Cenis, when it is open - as long as your rig is 6.4m or less. Personally I don't fancy a bigger outfit over either the Col du Mont Cenis or the Grand or Petit Bernard. Others will disagree. One advantage of Chamonix or either the Grand or Petit Bernard is they take you down to Aosta and the Parco Nazionale Gran Paradiso, which is worth a visit if you like hiking.

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We drove from Annecy to the lakes via the Mont Blanc tunnel and took the motorway pretty much the whole way. The motorway around Milan is crazy at rush hour.
 
chaser said:
P sorry couldn't find the photos
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Hi , Sorry it’s not about the pictures it’s just a question as to the suitability of the Great St Bernard road ( not tunnel ) was for an 8.0 mt long van . Would I be thrashing the van to do it ?

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wp1234 do you know how much is the tunnel out of interest? We did Chamonix to Aosta in the car a few years back and I have one eye of doing it in the van. Sounds like a great trip.
 
wp1234 said:
Hi , Sorry it’s not about the pictures it’s just a question as to the suitability of the Great St Bernard road ( not tunnel ) was for an 8.0 mt long van . Would I be thrashing the van to do it ?
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No sorry all my fault, I was going to put some photos up from when we went but then couldn't find them. But I will just say we went through the mont blanc tunnel in our first van and the experience was brilliant, we went in, in snow and cold came out the other side in Italy in blazing sun.
I have just found that one but no help to you ,I know.
2012-09-14-106.jpg
 
wp1234 said:
Hi , Sorry it’s not about the pictures it’s just a question as to the suitability of the Great St Bernard road ( not tunnel ) was for an 8.0 mt long van . Would I be thrashing the van to do it ?
Click to expand...
Michael Caine's mob struggled a bit in a coach, if that helps !

From memory it is fine, we were in 7.2 M and I dont remember any issues at all
 
wp1234 said:
Hi , Sorry it’s not about the pictures it’s just a question as to the suitability of the Great St Bernard road ( not tunnel ) was for an 8.0 mt long van . Would I be thrashing the van to do it ?
Click to expand...
Would I be thrashing the van to do it ? I think this is tricky to answer, without knowing your set up. Factors are: overall weight, engine size, gearbox, weight distribution, turning circle. The roads on the high passes are twisty in parts and occasionally have some adverse cambers to contend with. If you are not overloaded and the van is not underpowered then you should be fine. Watch your mirrors there will be bikes and cars seeking to overtake. And watch the descents, they are hard on your brakes so you'll need to take it steady.

It's worth doing a quick internet search restricted to images for "camper motorhome Grand St Bernard" or "Grosser Sankt Bernhard wohnmobil" to get a sense of what vehicles get up there. But full size coaches and lorries go over the pass so there's no reason length-wise you shouldn't unless you are overloaded underpowered etc.
I have seen one van spinning up its offside front wheel, in the dry, because it was front wheel drive, on a steep bend with adverse camber, and overloaded with too much weight in the garage, but only one and that was on the Col du Mont Cenis. It's a slow steady ascent and descent, give yourself plenty of time.
 
You’ll be fine. The “real” top bit is only a fraction of the rest of the pass. Just like any mountain pass, don‘t run out of brakes on the way down. :giggle:Take it nice and easy. Plenty of places to pullover and let them cool a little. Use your engine braking too and you’ll have no issues at all. I’d quite happily take my 9m tag axle up there.(y)
 
DumfriesDik said:
wp1234 do you know how much is the tunnel out of interest? We did Chamonix to Aosta in the car a few years back and I have one eye of doing it in the van. Sounds like a great trip.
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Frejus tunnel was €62.30 august 2020.

They charged me twice for the same one way journey. Had to get refund
 
The roads around Bourge St Maurice are pretty epic if you can fit that in. Mt Cenis route will take you down to Turin which is pretty mehhh tbh. Aosta route would keep you in the pretty stuff a bit longer.
Just my opinion though....don't shoot me.
 
I really admire the the trust you have in the mechanics of your vans, to talk so casually about brake fade in the Alps!!

I've done it once in 2017 and am doing it again this year. Mont Blanc Tunnel. However, if you were heading to south Italy, you'd be better off looking at Frejus. We're going to Lago Maggiore, so Mont Blanc is better for us.

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I’ve had mine smoking in the past! :LOL:
my mate who was following in his Autotrail Chieftain also had smoking brakes and when we stopped in a view point he was running round chucking bowl fulls of water on his wheels! :LOL: I just put my kettle on and laughed.(y)
My brake discs actually changed colour because of the heat! I knew they weren’t getting massively overheated because of my tyre pressure monitors which also show tyre temperature.
 
A S R said:
Definitely the Great St Bernard pass. (y)
I’ve done it loads of times and will again. Make sure you do the real top bit and not the tunnel. View attachment 628122View attachment 628126
Click to expand...

Done it in a large-ish car

It is indeed an exceedingly scenic route.

Would I do it in my fairly fully loaded, 7.15m motorhome with 150 hp Ducato engine on the comfortmatic box?

No chance. Aside from the mechanical stuff, every other driver, biker and cyclist is a lunatic. How more aren't killed each year is beyond me. I'll stick to the tunnels.
 
A S R said:
I’ve had mine smoking in the past! :LOL:
my mate who was following in his Autotrail Chieftain also had smoking brakes and when we stopped in a view point he was running round chucking bowl fulls of water on his wheels! :LOL: I just put my kettle on and laughed.(y)
My brake discs actually changed colour because of the heat! I knew they weren’t getting massively overheated because of my tyre pressure monitors which also show tyre temperature.
Click to expand...
We did it in a ldv converted van, smelt hot all the way but put her low gear and just cruised at about 10 mph
 
I remember our brakes smoking just coming down into Gap on a main road, another time from Cuneo to Nice.
Very easily done and yes I did use my gears !

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DDJC said:
Done it in a large-ish car

It is indeed an exceedingly scenic route.

Would I do it in my fairly fully loaded, 7.15m motorhome with 150 hp Ducato engine on the comfortmatic box?

No chance. Aside from the mechanical stuff, every other driver, biker and cyclist is a lunatic. How more aren't killed each year is beyond me. I'll stick to the tunnels.
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Those are my thoughts at the moment .Our van is fully loaded and with the comfortmatic box , to be honest having done some bloody hairy climbs in the Bavarian Alps a few years ago I think looking after the machine is a tad more important than a good view and risk.
Al thinking now that the St Bernard tunnel might be a compromise , any thoughts?
Cheers
 
wp1234 said:
Those are my thoughts at the moment .Our van is fully loaded and with the comfortmatic box , to be honest having done some bloody hairy climbs in the Bavarian Alps a few years ago I think looking after the machine is a tad more important than a good view and risk.
Al thinking now that the St Bernard tunnel might be a compromise , any thoughts?
Cheers
Click to expand...

I agree with your reservations. My engine is the 150hp mid range lump, so can't comment on how well the 130hp would cope with a 3500kg bus. If you have the 150 or 180, you will get up there with no trouble, but coming down? All these stories about smoking brakes, bad smells, chucking water on them, low gear, etc etc, too scary for me. If I damaged the bus for a view, Mrs DDJC would have my conkers in a jar.

I haven't done the St Bernard tunnel. I did go over the top, but as I say, I was in a car. I would say that twists and turns are drivable in a 8m bus, but having bikers and cars flash past you on blind corners is really mad. They really have no concept of consequence, and for about half of the corners, the drop is on your side. The approach to the pass on the Swiss side does not always have continuous crash barriers Once you cross into Italy, the barriers do improve. Not that it will help you if your brakes overheat!

One other issue with St Bernards, is that you will likely need a vignette for the Swiss approach. I had one anyway, but if you are looking for Annecy to Italy, you could avoid the Swiss vignette by staying in France through the Mont Blanc. However, as Switzerland is one of the most beautiful places in the world, why wouldn't you go through Switzerland? The Vignette is 40 swiss francs, which is about £33.

I am sure braver souls will say I am painting an unnecessarily dark picture or being overly concerned, but I always veer towards nil damage to the bus and max safety to the family.
 
We are headed to the Italian lakes late this year, these routes sound lovely. However I have a fear of heights, going over bridges and round roads with big drops, hypnotherapy has helped in the past but my therapist has retired 😢
suggestions please for a route which might not scare me half to death, I will be driving as I am even worse as a passenger.
 
Depends which lake really.
You could go Chamomix over to Martigny then across to Brig and up over Simplon and drop down into Domodossola. That’ll take you to the top of Maggiore.
Thats a nice route, obviously you’ll need a bit of tax for Switzerland.

Or, down to Modane and do a left and up over Mont Cenis as others have said.
Tunnels are around €60 each way.
Tax for Switzerland is dependent on weight but around £30
 
scotzsue said:
We are headed to the Italian lakes late this year, these routes sound lovely. However I have a fear of heights, going over bridges and round roads with big drops, hypnotherapy has helped in the past but my therapist has retired 😢
suggestions please for a route which might not scare me half to death, I will be driving as I am even worse as a passenger.
Click to expand...

Mont Blanc Tunnel.
You don't say where you are starting from! Assuming you are wanting safe, flat, easy roads, you would be coming down the main south Peage (A26, A5, A31, A6, St Quentin, Reims, Troyes, Langres, Dijon, Macon), take the A40 at Macon. This leads to the Autoroute Blanche and takes you straight to the tunnel. There is only one spot where you may feel a tad iffy over the height. The Passy viaduct. Check it out on Google and see if it's OK.

The other side of the tunnel is the E25 which runs through the Valle d'Aosta. Lovely scenery (no drops or heights!) until you leave the Valley. Stay on the E25 until you reach the junction for the A4 for Milano.

You don't say which lake area you are going to!
For Maggiore, d'Ota, Monate, Commabio, and Varesi you come off before Milano.
For Como and Lugano , come off just notrth of Milano.
For d'Iseo & Endine, come off before Brescia
For Garda and d'Idro, come off after Brescia

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