Alde water heating issue?

[Kev and Ju]

Hi All,
Firstly and most importantly, I hope you're all keeping well and safe.
I have Alde 3020 system in my 2017 Bailey Autograph and have noticed that when I switch the heating on, the tap water also gets hot without the hot water side of the system being activated.
I contacted Alde and they told me that when the boiler is switched on to activate the central heating, (even without hot water being requested), due to heat transfer in the boiler the water would naturally get warm which I can understand and accept.
However, my water gets REALLY HOT and feels the same temperature as if I'd actually requested hot water on. Surely this cannot be purely due to heat transfer?
Does your water get HOT when you only have the heating on?
Any thoughts / ideas?

 

[rb62]

Apologies mis-information

 

[tonyidle]

If you search there are a few pictures of the boiler so you can see how it works. There is no option for hot water as such. The boiler has an inner sausage that is heated and which contains the water / antifreeze mix that is circulated around the radiators. Wrapped around the sausage is a jacket containing the water that appears at the hot taps. If the heating is on, the sausage is heated and that heats the jacket around it. The hot water boost simply prevents the central heating pump from operating so that more heat is available to heat hot water. In Summer the wall thermostat stops the pump so all available heat is used for hot water which is why it gets hotter - a bit like being on permanent boost.

 

[tonyidle]

In the Alde boilers due to the construction it is the water that gets heated and transfers the heat to the heating fluid,so yes your water will get hot but you can set the hot water temperature.

It the other way around - the heating fluid heats the hot water.

 

[Kev and Ju]

There is no option for hot water as such.

Great thanks for that. So to be clear, its the water jacket (tap water), surrounding the sausage that heats up the CH fluid inside the sausage? So you have to have hot water first because its the hot water that heats the CH fluid inside the sausage?
So, in the summer when I only needy hot water, I'll turn the Alde control panel on and the heating thermostat right down. The water jacket surrounding the sausage (which contains the CH water / anti-freeze mix) heats the tap water. correct?

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[tonyidle]

Great thanks for that. So to be clear, its the water jacket (tap water), surrounding the sausage that heats up the CH fluid inside the sausage? So you have to have hot water first because its the hot water that heats the CH fluid inside the sausage?
So, in the summer when I only needy hot water, I'll turn the Alde control panel on and the heating thermostat right down. The water jacket surrounding the sausage (which contains the CH water / anti-freeze mix) heats the tap water. correct?

No. Both gas and electric heat up the fluid-filled sausage which then heats the HW jacket surrounding it. The CH fluid is in the sausage doing nothing (apart from heating the jacket) until the CH pump runs to shift it round the radiators.

At any time that you don't need CH the pump won't run (because the wall thermostat sensor knows you're warm enough) and all available heat is used for HW.

 

[Clarky]

Just to add, Tony is quite correct.
Were at Alde UK a few weeks ago and waited in their training room where there are cut away training boilers. When you look into them you can see that they work just as tonyidle describes.

Richard.

 

[peterc10]

If you go into the first page of the settings menu you will see an icon (second one down) showing a shower head. That is the setting for hot water. It has three settings which you can scroll through using +button to the right.

• Off, which shows as an empty triangle on the icon. In this case the water will get warm when the heating is on but will only warm up when the heating is actually running. Of course if it is very cold and the heating runs a lot the water will get quite hot.
• On, which shows a half full triangle icon. This is the default setting when you turn the heater on. The water will heat up to its standard temperature and will be maintained at that regardless of whether or not the heating is on.
• Boost, which shows as full triangle icon. The water gets a boost to get it to a higher temperature. If this is chosen the heating is switched off so the maximum heat goes to the water. This setting switches off automatically after half an hour.

If you don't want hot water just keep pressing the +button until the triangle icon is empty.

 

[tonyidle]

If you don't want hot water just keep pressing the +button until the triangle icon is empty.

Unless the heating is on in which case you will have hot water whether you want it or not.

 

[peterc10]

Unless the heating is on in which case you will have hot water whether you want it or not.

See my first bullet point, which says that

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[Kev and Ju]

Guys, I've got it and thanks for the explanations which I hope will also assist other Alde users. Might have been useful to have this explanation on handover but there was so much other stuff to explain that we'd have been there for weeks!
Basically it appears that I have been using the system correctly and I have been achieving the desired results (CH heating / HW at the desired levels) but wasn't sure how I was achieving it. Like most users here I like to know HOW systems work not just how to use them. Sorted and thanks.

 

[peterc10]

Didn't the motorhome come with the Alde operating instructions? They are very comprehensive. If not I think you can get them from Alde.

 

[tonyidle]

See my first bullet point, which says that

Agreed. But when the heating is switched on it isn't the boiler that is turned off by the thermostat - only the pump. So under those circumstances the warmer the van is, the less the pump will run, and the hotter the HW will be. The only time that no HW is being produced is when the boiler is turned off completely at the control panel.

 

[peterc10]

Agreed. But when the heating is switched on it isn't the boiler that is turned off by the thermostat - only the pump. So under those circumstances the warmer the van is, the less the pump will run, and the hotter the HW will be. The only time that no HW is being produced is when the boiler is turned off completely at the control panel.

.
Not on my system. If I switch the hot water off as in my second bullet point, the boiler only fires up if the room thermostat calls for heat. That is what the Alde instructions say and what actually happens. But then I have my pump set to Thermostat, not Continuous.

 

[funflair]

.
Not on my system. If I switch the hot water off as in my second bullet point, the boiler only fires up if the room thermostat calls for heat. That is what the Alde instructions say and what actually happens. But then I have my pump set to Thermostat, not Continuous.

That does confuse a few people our old slide controller had the Thermo and Continuous settings but on the later sliders they only had Thermo and did away with Continuous, less confusion.

Martin

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[Mr Colpot]

I have the Alde 3010 system and was told by Alde that the water is on whenever a power source is turned on. I dont have the option to turn it of - its either on or boost.

 

[peterc10]

That does confuse a few people our old slide controller had the Thermo and Continuous settings but on the later sliders they only had Thermo and did away with Continuous, less confusion.

Martin

I have the Alde 3010 system and was told by Alde that the water is on whenever a power source is turned on. I dont have the option to turn it of - its either on or boost.

The OP and I have the 3020 with the coloured LED touch screen. I can't comment on older system because I have never used it.

 

[funflair]

The OP and I have the 3020 with the coloured LED touch screen. I can't comment on older system because I have never used it.

Indeed it was just a comment on the two control modes

Martin

 

[funflair]

I have the Alde 3010 system and was told by Alde that the water is on whenever a power source is turned on. I dont have the option to turn it of - its either on or boost.

I assume you mean a power source on the panel in which case yes other than if you have no fresh water in the system as you can run the ALDE with the fresh water drained.

There is also a setting on some of the digital panels to automatically switch on as soon as you plug in the hook up lead.

Martin

 

[peterc10]

I assume you mean a power source on the panel in which case yes other than if you have no fresh water in the system as you can run the ALDE with the fresh water drained.

There is also a setting on some of the digital panels to automatically switch on as soon as you plug in the hook up lead.

Martin

The setting is there but needs an optional extra to be installed before it works.

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[tonyidle]

.
Not on my system. If I switch the hot water off as in my second bullet point, the boiler only fires up if the room thermostat calls for heat. That is what the Alde instructions say and what actually happens. But then I have my pump set to Thermostat, not Continuous.

Up to last year I had the non-colour touch screen - which died on me. I replaced it with the colour version. On the first setting screen I have 4 icons: a house & thermometer for setting room temperature; a shower head with minus, a graph strip, then plus; a lightning symbol for setting mains power; a flame symbol to turn gas operation on or off.

The shower head allows me to set boost on or off (half triangle or full triangle). If boost is set it turns off after 30 minutes. That's it - there's no option to turn HW off completely. (I had to go out to the van to make sure I hadn't missed a third setting ?) Which control panel do you have? Up to now I've assumed there's only one available for the 3010 system. And IIRC when I ordered it I was told it was the same panel used on the later 3020 system.

 

[funflair]

tonyidle Here is a control panel simulator to play with, https://control-panel.alde.se/settings on this the shower symbol will go to nothing "blue" which to me would be hot water off so if the heating is off the hot water will be off as well, as established above you can't have the hot water off with the heating on as it heats by default.

Martin

 

[tonyidle]

tonyidle Here is a control panel simulator to play with, https://control-panel.alde.se/settings on this the shower symbol will go to nothing "blue" which to me would be hot water off so if the heating is off the hot water will be off as well, as established above you can't have the hot water off with the heating on as it heats by default.

Martin

Yep. Mine doesn't do that. It looks like a facility added to the Control Panel when it's used by the 3020. I'm also struggling to understand what use it would be. If you want heating without hot water (why would you?) then it must be because the weather requires that heating is needed. Even if you have the HW turned off under those circumstances there will be a constant supply because the heating is being used.

Alde now supply an auxiliary HW storage cylinder with heat exchanger & pump as an accessory for those who want long showers. It can't be used with the 3010 (presumably software issues) so I wonder if the extra facility in the Control Panel is to accommodate it.

 

[funflair]

Yep. Mine doesn't do that. It looks like a facility added to the Control Panel when it's used by the 3020. I'm also struggling to understand what use it would be.

I can only imagine if you wanted to leave the control panel on for some of the timer functions to work but you didn't want it maintaining water temperature all day, like everything you usually only use about 10% of the optional settings and features.

Martin

 

[peterc10]

Yep. Mine doesn't do that. It looks like a facility added to the Control Panel when it's used by the 3020. I'm also struggling to understand what use it would be. If you want heating without hot water (why would you?) then it must be because the weather requires that heating is needed. Even if you have the HW turned off under those circumstances there will be a constant supply because the heating is being used.

Alde now supply an auxiliary HW storage cylinder with heat exchanger & pump as an accessory for those who want long showers. It can't be used with the 3010 (presumably software issues) so I wonder if the extra facility in the Control Panel is to accommodate it.

The 3010 probaby does not have this, but the 3020 definatly does. Martin is correct when he says the plus turns from green to blue when the hot water is off.

I do use this facility often as it saves some gas. I leave the heating on all day but often only want really hot water, rather than warm, mornings and evenings. And in the winter if I dont drain down I leave the heater on low as frost protection. No need to have hot, rather than warm, water then.

Only the later model 3020 can have the auxiliary heater fitted. Mine was an early version so can't have it fitted.

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[tonyidle]

The 3010 probaby does not have this, but the 3020 definatly does. Martin is correct when he says the plus turns from green to blue when the hot water is off.

I do use this facility often as it saves some gas. I leave the heating on all day but often only want really hot water, rather than warm, mornings and evenings. And in the winter if I dont drain down I leave the heater on low as frost protection. No need to have hot, rather than warm, water then.

Only the later model 3020 can have the auxiliary heater fitted. Mine was an early version so can't have it fitted.

That explains our misunderstanding then ?.

 

[Kev and Ju]

Brilliant and I think we've all learned something here. Well I definitely have.
While we're on the Alde theme.........I love the 3020 system and I've been through all the menus and settings and understand all the other features except one and that's the (from memory), Delayed Pump Setting which I originally thought was for setting a time for the heating / water to come on but that's not the case as I use the 'Day / Night' (sun & moon) modes for that. So still not sure what the Delayed Pump Setting is for.......not that I'll probably ever use it but would be great to know what its for. Any thoughts?

 

[funflair]

Brilliant and I think we've all learned something here. Well I definitely have.
While we're on the Alde theme.........I love the 3020 system and I've been through all the menus and settings and understand all the other features except one and that's the (from memory), Delayed Pump Setting which I originally thought was for setting a time for the heating / water to come on but that's not the case as I use the 'Day / Night' (sun & moon) modes for that. So still not sure what the Delayed Pump Setting is for.......not that I'll probably ever use it but would be great to know what its for. Any thoughts?

There is a pump delay setting for underfloor heating, it set a time delay for the underfloor pump to turn off after the main circulation pump.

Martin

 

[tonyidle]

The manual for the panel explains it. It's used if you have underfloor heating with an additional pump.

 

[ctc]

I would sooner watch coronation street than read this thread again.

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